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kzim_gw

Poured concrete basement: temp., strength, slop lot

kzim_gw
9 years ago

Hi,
We are building a new home and are Interested in understanding more about:
1. What temperature is too low to pour a basement and have it cure properly?
2. Does adding fiber to the mix really make a stronger concrete?
3. What steps do you take to keep water flowing away from a home that is being built on a sloping lot. Front of house is lower than the street, the back of the house facing the lake is even lower.

We live in the mid-west (zone 5). Temperatures are milder than a normal October and are all over the place right now, highs 80-50, lows 60-30. We have excavation currently going on at our sloping lake lot. The GC says we have no need to worry about pouring our concrete. He has poured it up to January. He also said we could add fiber to the concrete to add strength to the concrete. We are skeptical of adding fiber because we had a new concrete floor poured in the garage of our previous house and it had cracks all over the place within a year.
I do not know the time frame to get to the point of pouring the footings and walls. But we are just now clearing trees so it could be a few more weeks I guess?
I have used a lot of information we have read from here in our discussions with our GC. I would be a complete idiot with out this forum. Thank you in advance for you thoughts on a poured foundation.
kzim

Comments (10)

  • bus_driver
    9 years ago

    Opinions about concrete vary widely on these forums. Claims of long experience may simply mean that they have been doing it wrong for a long time. Take whatever is posted here and use as a basis for more research that you will do.
    Concrete is either 1. a slab placed over a supporting substrate, or 2. a component of a bridge. A bridge has reinforcement which supports both all of the components of the bridge plus the loads that the bridge must bear.
    Cracked floors could indicate an improper substrate. Concrete made from Portland cement shrinks as it cures. Fiber helps to minimize cracking from this cause. Control joints are used to create deliberately weaker places where such cracks can more easily occur, hopefully sparing those areas between the control joints. A poorly-prepared substrate that varies in height, i.e, not level, virtually insures that concrete placed over it will crack where the concrete is thinner. None of my interior concrete has any cracks after 10 years. The basement was solid soil with 4" of crushed stone compacted with plate compactor. Fiber is the only reinforcement there.
    Part of my garage is filled 8 feet deep. Filled with selected soil and compacted thoroughly with a "jumping jack compactor' every 8" of added soil EXCEPT adjacent to the basement wall which would have put too much lateral pressure against the wall. Then rebar formed a bridge over the deepest fill and wider spaced rebar is over the full garage area. Fiber was used there. I would not expect fiber to provide structural reinforcement. Fiber slightly hinders getting a slick final finish on the concrete.
    Keeping the concrete CONSTANTLY wet for 30 days will insure much greater strength but does not appreciably affect cracking.
    My lot is like yours. My yard is graded for water control. House main floor level is lower than the road. A gentle swale is created about 30' from the house and then the yard slopes up to the road from the other side of the swale. The swale slopes downward gently to one side of the lot. No water in the basement as it easily runs away before it gets to the house. The ground level adjacent to the house is about 2' higher than the bottom of the swale at it's highest point.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Swale

  • kzim_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    bus driver:
    "Keeping the concrete CONSTANTLY wet for 30 days will insure much greater strength but does not appreciably affect cracking."
    This information is something I have not heard before. How are basement walls kept wet?
    What about air and ground temperature? Someone I work with said they covered up their foundation when they heard the temp was dropping below freezing a day or so after their walls were poured. Was this a important step? Our GC did not mention this as a option when we touched base yesterday. Things have been dragging, we expected to have a foundation in the ground at the beginning of October and are now concerned.

  • bus_driver
    9 years ago

    Covering concrete with plastic sheeting as soon as it is firm enough is one way to keep it wet. Using a sprinkler is another. Curing compounds are coatings that help hold in the moisture. If concrete dries, curing stops and does not restart.
    I suggest your independent study on concrete in freezing weather. Do your homework.

  • josephene_gw
    9 years ago

    In talking to a builder in Alabama, smith lake area, he said the building codes changed. Now the important issue is the density of the concrete to keep the water out of the basement. There is a company that makes panels that are set in place that is waterproof. Panels are factory made. The panels are about 12 feet tall leaving about 10 foot ceilings in your basement. If I remember correctly the company is in Pa. But has mfg plants elsewhere.
    I have the paperwork the builder sent me, I can find it if you need it.
    Hope this helps. I have found that tha alabama building codes are more up to date. There is a Southern Builders Code you might want to check for info.
    Ask the builders association in your town for info too.
    Again, hope this helps
    Josephene

  • kzim_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Josephene,
    Thank you for the information. Our basement is almost completely dug out. I do not know if footing will be poured this week because the temp is dropping into the 20's. I have sent a email to the contractor asking him about these water proof panels. If you have anymore info that would be great.
    KZim

    This post was edited by kZim on Mon, Nov 10, 14 at 12:56

  • lookintomyeyes83
    9 years ago

    kZim - yes, freezing temperatures can be damaging to concrete. Hoarding (covering the concrete and/or heating it) can be used successfully to pour concrete in the winter. If you google the term you will find more information on methods used.

    So, if you are pouring in near-freezing temperatures, be prepard to act FAST and use hoarding if need be. I once witness a VERY ugly slab as the contractor was unprepared and had to throw tarps with wood on top to hold down the tarps from the wind. They saved the slab (it was a commercial building), but was very wavy and required some special rework to make it level.

  • josephene_gw
    9 years ago

    Hope I'm not too late
    Superior walls
    18888175537
    Or their website
    Good luck
    Josephene

  • kzim_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    No not too late. :) Our pour has been postponed because of the temps. In the teens at night.
    Thank you for the follow-up.

  • josephene_gw
    9 years ago

    Great let me know how it turns out
    Josephene

  • renovator8
    9 years ago

    Winter concrete work technique is different for a slab, a stem-wall foundation and a footing. It is difficult to discuss all of these conditions at the same time.

    Concrete becomes hard due to a chemical reaction between cement and water (hydration) which releases heat (heat of hydration). This often offers adequate protection against the mix water freezing before enough hydration has occurred for the concrete to reach the minimum design strength.

    Other techniques that can be used in very cold weather are the addition of chemical additives to accelerate hydration, preheating the mix water, covering/insulating the work and tenting the work and running heaters.

    The important issue with a footing is to avoid pouring it on frozen ground so the bare trench will often be covered with a tarp or straw, etc. to allow the heat from the earth to rise and keep the temperature of the bottom of the excavation trench below freezing.

    Concrete needs no encouragement to fully hydrate if mixed correctly. "Curing" is simply a collection of different techniques intended to prevent the excessive evaporation of water from the exposed surface of fresh concrete and reducing the strength of the concrete. It is more of an issue for slabs than for foundation walls and footings because of the greater exposed surface area of a slab. The important issues with walls and footings is how soon the wall can be poured on the footing and how soon the forms can be stripped from the walls and when to backfill. This is an issue about which almost no one agrees.

    For slab crack prevention there is no substitute for welded-wire-fabric steel reinforcement properly placed although a low water mix and good curing techniques can also help a great deal.

    Here is a link that might be useful: cold weather concreting