Annie...I just adore your house. I have seen many pictures sprinkled on different forums...I just really love your house! I always hope you post more pictures!!! You always make good points when you answer questions!

Great point. My home, which is 23 years old actually has windows in the master on 2 ways. For some reason, it seems like the newer homes have just 1 wall with windows. Maybe it is because newer homes are built on smaller parcels of land and losing that wall with windows makes for more privacy?

In our new build (almost done!) we specifically have certain windows that open so we can get the crosswinds from the lake - there is a nice breeze most days even though we are in hot Florida. Some nights in July are actually chilly if the wind is really blowing across the lake. Our window company helped me and showed me all the places we could benefit from a cross breeze. In fact, I know I will end up with a custom made screen door on my front door because that is an area for a great cross breeze....ah...the money tree will grow and I will get that door one day!

Pam

Thanks for the kind words, and I'm glad you're making use of the natural surroundings...it just makes a home so much more livable!

Annie, I don't know the house design you are describing, but so many of the homes discussed and illustrated here are just canned designs from various "plan factories", which have no consideration for site conditions, energy, code and zoning requirements, etc.

The other significant influence in many of these plans is the marketing desire to cram in as many features as possible in order to make the plan appealing to a large audience. When combined with excessively large rooms and garages these plans become very ill-proportioned and bulky, i.e., "fat plans"--plans nearly as deep as they are wide!

The result is as you describe: major rooms with only a window or two, and no regard for view, cross-ventilation, etc. This is also why we see design after design which have huge, towering roofs--it's the only way to enclose the "fat plans".

To me, the really interesting and appealing designs are those that are only a couple of rooms wide, and are based on site conditions (view, topography, orientation to sun, etc.). The reason that many historic designs are timeless and remain appealing is that they are based on these kinds of concepts, rather than being produced en masse by a computer somewhere.

Only a thought!

As always, good points VC. I never made the connection between the deep houses and the awful rooflines...but now I see it exactly!

I didn't want to post the actual layout as the home is already being built. But it's not the first one I've seen. For some reason, people like walking into the MBR and having the bath away from the door so it often ends up on the end of things and the whole opportunity to make the MBR really grand is missed.

I was recently reminded of a victorian mansion turned B&B we stayed at once where the room was it's own separate wing. You walked down a hall, past the bath entrance and into this grand room which opened up before you with windows on 3 sides and a fireplace in the middle of the far wall. It was just wonderful. I'm normally not a fan of hallways, but to get this look and feel was worth it.

I had to get up before I finished reading your post, was thinking about it while getting my coffee, and came to the same conclusion before I returned. (Great minds, huh?) I even recall an example or two with closets placed on corners, and interior MBRs. I don't get it either. Corners are so nice, why waste them?

We are building a small house (designed by an architect) and the only room that does not have light from at least two sides is one small bath. Of course, in the PNW, we have some dark days where light is something we aim for, but as I recall, you are in the south, so it is the breeze you are aiming for as well. (I try to ask myself if my response is driven by my own location or living circumstance, because I've been told some things here that fit neither.) there may be some locations where people want to hide from both light and air, but I don't know where!

So that's the one I came up with as most universal. Many of our other layout decisions have been cited by others as "deal breakers" for them, and I bet you'll see them listed below!

lori, actually we are in the northeast but light and ventilation are essential for us. We fundamentally have the hvac off for 6 mos of the year with the exception of a few 90 degree days when we turn on the a/c.

I'm glad you opted for "deal breakers" as did we. All real estate agents told us we had to have granite counters, hard wood floors and stainless appliances. We have none of those things. We built for us, not for some future fictional homeowner who may or may not like our choices.

I am curious, how deep is too deep? What's considered a good width-to-depth ratio for rectangular-shaped houses?

Consider other points of view.... some people don't have great views to take advantage of, some people do not want light in their bedrooms, and some people live in climates where HVAC is necessary and/or it's too dusty/windy to open the windows often.

Most of those apply to me... We are in a windy and, therefore, quite dusty climate that can be very hot or very cold. That doesn't leave many days in between to have windows open. (Also, my allergies dictate keeping windows closed.) Thus, that isn't a priority.
Add to that... DH works nights at times and often sleeps during the day. The more windows we have, the more we have to work to block the light. Our bedroom actually has windows on two walls, and we never open the blinds. (I would probably be happier if those windows weren't there, even.)

Just some thoughts to throw out there.

I think it's less about width to depth than about the ratio of the smaller of those two and the height of the house.

The short, wide and deep houses often end up with more roof than house.

I think part of the reason people don't think about where they want windows is that lots of us haven't lived in homes with thoughtfully placed windows, and it's hard to imagine the impact of natural light on spaces. It's a lot easier to place furniture and say "I want a kitchen off the family room so I can watch TV with the family while I make dinner, and I want a screened porch off the family room so we can eat outside on nice evenings" than to imagine how the layout will really work and whether they'd actually be happier with less square footage and a different shaped house.

I know the plan you are speaking of. That plan, like the vast majority of stock plans, are designed for near-zero lot line lots with houses butted close to each other in high density. They optimize those houses for privacy.

Some of them could be easily adapted to larger lots, I am not sure that one really can without major changes to the master bedroom wing.

At least the house could be situated in the best possible orientation and some windows added on the side walls, which have very few.

There are actually a lot of very good reasons to design and build houses made for high density, the prevention of sprawl, walkability and creation of neighborhoods rather than isolated housing where every movement you make outside your own property involves getting into a car, so I can't criticize the rationale from that standpoint.

That said, it is not the best sort of house to build on a 10 acre lot.

I know the plan you are speaking of. That plan, like the vast majority of stock plans, are designed for near-zero lot line lots with houses butted close to each other in high density. They optimize those houses for privacy.

Some of them could be easily adapted to larger lots, I am not sure that one really can without major changes to the master bedroom wing.

At least the house could be situated in the best possible orientation and some windows added on the side walls, which have very few.

There are actually a lot of very good reasons to design and build houses made for high density, the prevention of sprawl, walkability and creation of neighborhoods rather than isolated housing where every movement you make outside your own property involves getting into a car, so I can't criticize the rationale from that standpoint.

That said, it is not the best sort of house to build on a 10 acre lot.

I get many clients who almost never open windows. There is simply an endless variety of people each with their own preferences. It often comes down to cost. Builders often offer to draw the plans at little or no additional cost and they usually do not have some ideological point of view of "what is correct" and thus tend to draw whatever people ask them to or whatever is simplest.

My bedroom has windows on one wall. Although we do have a bathroom opposite that can provide cross ventilation. My own experience is that there are very few nights when cross ventilation would make the difference between keeping windows open and turning on AC.

Efficiency wise unless someone is really putting up with the realities of using windows. (dust, allergies, large temperature swings, etc..) than excessive window area is probably a drain.

I cracked open a few windows last night and this morning it was about 60 degrees inside. If I close the windows before it gets too warm, I can trap most of that cool in for the day and then open them up and get more cool in at night. Or leave them open and it may warm up close to the daytime temperature.

Many people do not like temperature variations and the hassle of opening and closing windows. They often have no nice view and neighbors only a few feet away.

It may be impossible to come up with universal criteria-- I know I would choose light even if I had obscure glass in fixed windows! But I forget that some people like to sleep in a totally dark bedroom! That is why our architect started us off with a massive questionnaire about how we like to live. I joked that by the time we answered all those questions, he knew more about us than our friends and family, but it's only a slight exaggeration!

(Our deal breaker list includes no conventional MBA, a walk through the closet to the bathroom, a small kitchen, no separate pantry, not even an island! And concrete floors. And metal siding. Crazy, huh? But we're doing it for ourselves. Each of those things has been a conscious decision, though, and that is the point. I think when people plop a tract house design down on 20 acres because it has the right list of "features," there are some unintended consequences!)

While we are speaking of windows, and don't get me wrong, I love windows, BUT...what's with cramming all of your wall space with so many and/or so large windows that you cannot place any window treatments or any furniture on those wall? Essentially, the wall is useless as a wall, and useless as a window because the window can't have any light control.

And another personal pet peeve is the humongous master suite that's 1/3 of the entire living space in the home. Is it the new place to hold dance recitals? Does the whole family shower together several times a day? It's a lot of EXPENSIVE to create and maintain space for not a lot of actual return for the time one spends in that space. And it's often at the expense of the secondary bedrooms (egregiously so in one presented plan on here) and the public rooms.

I don't live a life that has minions. And I can't imagine trying to work full time, take care of kids, and keep some of these homes clean. They require minions. Those double height entryways with crystal chandeliers are the microcosm of it all. No one seems to own a ladder tall enough to get up 18 feet to clean that crystal chandelier or change the bulbs or to paint the foyer. But, it's MUST to be had.

Where do you sign up for minions? I think I could use some...especially if they have farm experience :)

By default, most of the houses where I live have windows only on the front and back sides. Some only on the front sides. ( I live in a city).

My newest house has windows only on the front and back, only one in each bedroom (although they are largish), and it is still light-filled. What it lacks in number of windows, it makes up for in thoughtful placement.

The most recent studies have shown that as a culture we do not sleep well because of all the light pollution and this includes all the tiny lights on our chargers, the light that comes out of all our electronics, our bedside clocks.

If you have lots of windows in your bedrooms and you don't have light blocking treatments on them, you are not getting adequate quality of sleep unless you live where there is no outside lighting and you get up as soon as the sun rises. Since most people don't go to bed at sundown and get up at sunrise, and it seems to be the trend to have uncovered glass, this could explain a lot.

Annie,
I do understand what you are trying to say about windows for cross ventilation (we have tried very hard to get this). But like others have pointed out it is about where the house is being built and how close the neighbohrs are and so on.

In regards to virgils point fof deep houses. Unfortunately we are going to have a deep house this is coming from the fact that we are building in a city lot where land is a premium and very very expensive . Here 6000 sqft is a very standard for houses here. So get a 2000 sqft house on such a lot we have to go deep. I too like wider houses compared to deeper houses but unfortunately for us the wide house is not going to happen.
This is one thing I wish I could change about the house but can't.

Not everyone gets a chance/luxury to live in 10 acre lots :)

Everyone IS different, with their own personal needs and wants. Perhaps the most important thing in a custom house design is to take the time to explore and reach agreement on what one's true "needs" are, as separate from a list of "wants".

Too often, it seems to me, what we see here are lists of "wants" and "features" which appear to have been influenced by the TV shows, consumer photo magazines and housing web sites ("oh, I want one of those and two of those").

It's important to separate the real needs from the nice-to-have wants, so as to truly personalize one's list of important must haves. The list isn't complete if spouses don't agree!

As mentioned above, site conditions are critical for the successful design of a house. For example, building in a high-density, urban setting brings a whole set of challenges that are different than building on a large acreage site on a lake somewhere in the mountains! A design for one site really may not work well at all for a completely different site. Architects and design professionals know this, but consumers often seem surprised when the house they found appealing on the Internet doesn't work well at all on their property.

And it's worth mentioning that the dream of a "forever house" is really a lifetime compromise of needs and wants. For example, a newly married couple with a dog, have far different needs and wants than a family with four elementary school (or home schooled) young children. Families with adolescent children have very different needs and wants from a retired, empty nester couple.

All of this is to say that no single house design will meet a full range of life's needs and wants without a lot of compromise and patience (and a lot of remodeling) somewhere in the cycle. This is probably why the average tenure in a house may be 5-6 years (or less when one considers changes due to occupational reasons).

There's nothing static and fixed about life (and home designs) is there? So figuring out what is truly important becomes very important. And that's where we all differ!

I think someone should start a thread: THINGS WE JUST DON'T GET about new houses. Don't even get me started!

I love love love your home Annie. We have bought our acres to build on, and while the living and dining room should have enough windows to take advantage of the view, I only thing about one wall in MB will have windows (probably a french door going to master bedroom deck)... the other may have a window, but will be backed into trees so not much light there. My parents have a LOT of windows in their home. It is too bright and cheerful if that makes sense. I want a calm relaxing home with softer lights :). I also don't want to clean more windows than necessary! With 3 little ones, I have a hard hard time keeping up with my current windows :). Growing up, we moved to a home when I was in fourth grade that had a full wall of windows by the dining table. I remember running past them or crawling past them. They always scared me...I guess I thought somebody was going to see me through them!

I am always surprised what people can actually afford to build when the land has relatively little value.

My house, which is "entry level" in my neighborhood has a value that is a small fraction of the price I paid for it. Essentially the lot with the house torn down would have the same value.

Some new lots of the same dimension came up a block away after a commercial building was removed and each house is selling for between 4x -5x what I paid for mine two years ago. They *have to because to put a house that is the size people currently want, and with parking (which is now required) that's the price point where they end up. A single car garage space adds more to price here than the entire cost of my sister's new house in a rural area. (A tonier neighborhood than mine is currently listing dedicated parking spots at $190,000.--and they are not connected internally to the house. Time will tell what they sell for.)

Some things that people do *not build in this environment are gigantic master suites, double height rooms, islands the size of cars. They simply can't afford that much square footage. (If they can the house is in the $3M+ range). There are a couple islands in this forum that are the same square footage as my entire kitchen. (Which is completely usable).

Anywhere near the Gulf Coast, you're lucky if you get two weeks of cool-ish, dry weather in the spring and the fall, so few people design their houses with cross ventilation in mind. Privacy, light, and views - yes. Cool breezes - no. :(

Thanks, nostalgicfarm, for the kind words.

You bring up a good point...what we grew up with that we loved or hated has such a strong influence on what we desire now.

ineffablespace-- I don't follow. Why would high land costs make it easier to afford to build?

I agree that homes are a riskier investment in areas with lots of land availability, but I think that's separate from affording initial construction.

They make it much *harder to afford to build. If I have a $400K here I could buy a piece of property but have no money left for a house. The existing house on my property, which was over $400K to purchase has essentially negligible value.(Except that it's a completely livable house)--the value is really all in the lot. If there was no house on the lot I would have to come up with Another $400K to build something. (=$800K total)

If I had $400K where I grew up, I could buy a lot for under $10K and spend $390K on the build. And $390K would go a lot further toward building a house there than it would here because of the labor multiplier.

Sorry, I misunderstood your first sentence.

I'll throw in another vote for site conditions and *really* close neighbors. We ended up with something pretty similar to what you describe but I knew going into it that on the one side of the house a neighboring home was going to be built very very close and I might honestly not want to take in that view. So we threw a bathroom window that can provide some extra light but that I plan to have fully shuttered most the time. That and an odd easement line meant I'd have a non square bedroom if i utilized the corner and that did not work with my plans for a bedroom vaulted ceiling. Cross ventilation would have been nice though for sure!

We live in the city and our lots are small and neighbors are close. Our driveway is only 8 ft wide and the neighbors house maybe another 2 feet. It's on a hill, so it helps that the floors are not in alignment. Even so, our downhill neighbor put a nice obscure glass in the lower part of her dining room window so that she wouldn't be looking out at our driveway and we used obscure glass in our upstairs bath for obvious reasons. That one gets opened for ventilation sometimes, but its an awning. In both cases, the light is the most important gain, though.

I agree with liking the bedroom dark. WE have two small windows on one wall of our MBR and that's it. We also can't open the windows because of DH's allergies. We live in NW OK, which is VERY windy and dusty.

That being said, I have my own layout pet peeves that some people don't mind. But I think that is why people do custom builds---they can build for themselves and not for a general idea of what a builder thinks people will want.

So what are yours? I find it so interesting what things different people like/dislike with regard to layouts. Some things I never would have thought of, some things I think of, but don't think are big deals...

I've read many many comments on the importance of getting groceries from car to kitchen. I think "so what, we do it once a week, I'm not going to organize my house or my life around that." Other people seem to find it crucial to be able to stand in one place and unload their entire dishwasher. I'd rather keep dishes where they get used and that isn't always adjacent.

So much depends on your lifestyle, your habits and those of your family members (still chuckling over "refrigerator blindness" which I learned about in another thread.) And there are also regional preferences, some of which are based on climate and others just on custom. I think it's fascinating!

My peeve: Laundry room near the garage rather than the bedrooms. In my family the dirty clothes come from the bedrooms and the clean clothes go back in the bedroom closets. Why would one want walk across the entire house to dump or deliver those clothes??

Well, you asked so...

I HATE master suites that are directly off of the kitchen or off the hallway leading from the kitchen to garage. That seems like an afterthought to me--sort of a "well, I can't find a better place to put it". Is it the laundry room or the master?

Like some comments above, I also don't like huge master bedrooms at the expense of the other bedrooms.

And because I like dark bedrooms, I don't like bedrooms with windows everywhere. I always think, "How do they sleep in there??" lol.

And laura how funny--in our new build the laundry is off the kitchen next to the garage because I am mostly in the kitchen when doing laundry. THat was more important to me than having it close to where we keep the clean clothes (we do have a laundry chute from the 2nd floor to the laundry room).

To each his own! :^)

We are doing a to-the-studs remodel. One of the parts of the house we are changing is the master suite. Our master bedroom will be very small which was a hard sell with all the architects we met with. We love sleeping in small, cozy spaces. We do not "hang out" in our bedroom at all. We don't have a TV in there or electronics of any kind. (battery alarm clocks and no phone chargers even!) We like it pitch-dark and quiet. I am hoping to avoid window treatments but we will add them if we need to so it will be dark. We are doing a den off the master bedroom which the original house had. We will put a small TV area and exercise equipment in there. I watch real estate shows sometimes and people really want/like huge master bedrooms. Our current home has one. It must serve some purpose (emotional?) or people wouldn't like it so much.

Our master bath has more windows than our bedroom. We spend more waking/daytime hours in there!

In our current house our garage entrance/laundry room is in the middle of the house. Bedrooms off to one length of the hallway and public areas down the other. It's perfect! The new house will have the laundry room near the kitchen and far from the bedrooms. I do see how it is a hassle to cross a long distance to gather and put away laundry but once I get myself and kids ready in the morning I spend most of my time in the public areas of the house/kitchen and I like to to do laundry everyday so it makes some sense to me to have the laundry room by the kitchen.

Location matters a lot. We are in the hot desert and some elements of our house are "green" like having one story and a lot of low ceilings. Other things are NOT green like enormous windows on the south side of our house. Thick adobe houses with tiny windows are appropriate for our climate but I don't want to live like that :)

I also love the different tastes/preferences people have! I especially like all the things people want that I don't relate too. However, it doesn't always seem like a lot of home plans necessarily have a lot of thought put in them...so they are less of "different strokes" than simply uninspired?

All that to say that there are probably plenty of things about our well-thought-out house that would puzzle or annoy other people!

It is fascinating to hear how location and lifestyle impact design choices, one can really see how local vernacular building styles would evolve.

Does anyone also think that perhaps sometimes people got used to things being a certain way, and keep perpetuating those arrangements. For example, folks might have grown up with laundry near the kitchen or garage because that was near the gas source for cooking and hot water heater, and/or near the clothesline -- and it just feels right for them to have things set up that way? And some of us still use a clothesline sometimes:-)

I would say that my layout "peeve" is the attached garage included as a matter of course rather than as a conscious decision. Don't get me wrong, I think attached garages completely make sense where there is extreme weather. I've never spent much time in a harsh winter (I don't think of New Jersey as harsh). I don't mind getting a bit wet or cold. Here in California, many folks with attached garages park in the driveway anyway. . . .

Oaktown -- Excellent point about the attached garage. I grew up with an attached and have had one in every home I have owned since until the last one .. in Denver. I was pleasantly surprised to find it was not problem at all and loved having the additional windows and yard access from both the house and the garage. The few seconds in the elements were nothing in exchange for the advantages.

okpokesfan, my wife insisted that our laundry room be between our kitchen and garage because she does laundry while doing kitchen stuff. Also, our TV room is off the kitchen.

I suggested putting it upstairs with all the bedrooms, but we will use the laundry room as a mud room, so the really dirty close will come in here from the outside.

We're in the windows camp. The kitchen in our old house is in the middle, so it has NO windows, and the family room that does have a window also has a deep covered porch, so any view from the kitchen is a long way away. The MBR has only one window, with the other outside wall having a closet down the length of it.

By comparison, the new house has windows on 2 walls of most rooms, including the kitchen. We spend much of our favorite time in the kitchen. My favorite design was a cross-gable house with windows on 3 sides of the major rooms. Ultimately, it was too expensive to build and not very energy efficient with all of the excess wall area and windows, so we went for a basic rectangle. We're on a very tight budget compared to everyone else here.

The thing to note is that we are out in the country, on acreage. Privacy is not an issue, and come nighttime, it is DARK. I like a very dark BR as well. Those of us fortunate enough to have a custom house can have things the way we want them, even if it means some loss on resale value. I plan to leave this house feet first, so I don't care!

We have a great big window in our bedroom. I work night shift a lot, so I'm sleeping in there during the day. I have heavy curtains that make the room almost pitch dark.