You've "spent" your square footage in much the same way I am -- and that is a bit out of the ordinary! Moderate sized rooms but good storage. Good windows. I like most of the house, but I will make a few suggestions:

- Most of us here hate a garage stuck out in front.

- How do you plan to use the den and the office? I wonder if it might be better to have one good-sized den/office (with some privacy) rather than two small rooms.

- The dining room is a bit far from the kitchen /around a corner. I wonder how much you'll end up using it.

- Moving furniture down that long hallway to the master bedroom is going to be difficult. This might be remedied by replacing the back windows with a sliding glass door.

- I like the layout of the master bath. It avoids the over-compartmentalized issues that so many baths today have -- but I don't think the pocket door will serve you well. Pocket doors are perfect for doors that are rarely closed, and that isn't what you have here.

- A 10' wide closet is a bit wasteful. I'd see if you could use a bit of this space in the laundry, where it'd be more useful. Love the connection to the laundry.

- I don't think the exterior door in the breakfast area is going to serve you well. When a table is in place, the door will be cramped. Fixes: go with a small sliding door or make that a window and put in a door from the great room instead.

- I don't care for the kitchen. I'd rather open up the wall between it and the great room. And I'd get rid of the cabinet run against one of the walls and make it a simple L plus island. That's more practical than all these cabinets that'll end up gathering clutter on the far side, the side that's sort of cut off from the rest of the kitchen by the island. You have good storage in the pantry, so you don't really need that back run of cabinetry.

- As for the secondary bath, I'd consider moving the sink next to the toilet. Yes, it would make the sink slightly smaller, but it will also keep your plumbing in a single wall, and it will keep the plumbing out of an exterior wall. Those are both positives.

- Ditto for the sink in the laundry room. If you move the sink to the run that holds the washer and dryer, you'll save money on plumbing. And it's a bit of a waste to build a wall thick enough to support plumbing just for a laundry sink.

Where is the fridge?

MrsP, I was so excited to read your feedback! I am going to take all of your well thought out advice into consideration.
I've posted a pic of my plan for kitchen. Their is just three of us, so the "dinette" will be a sitting area and most meals will be at island. I'm joining the "kitchen not open to the FR" camp. Sorry, I'm currently in (other camp) and want out! It's not personal.
I should have added in my original post that the "pocket office" will be a sun room, the "den" will be my office and there are more bedrooms on other levels. Thank You

This post was edited by willietom on Wed, Sep 10, 14 at 0:57

kirkhall, You should be able to see the Fridge in my second post.

The kitchen is totally dysfuntional, even for just three people. The island is in the way of the workflow. It's a hindrance, not a help. It's much too large as a whole for a two person household, yet the space is wasted because of the layout, and yet there isn't nearly enough room to have the seating as shown. It might work better as a peninsula, but the breakfast area is so small and crammed with the door there that the traffic flow past it would impinge negatively on two areas.

That space wasting labrynth hallway to the master would be better elimiated. Use the pantry and the master closet as a buffer between the kitchen and master, and have a door directy through them from between the kitchen and breakfast area.

Consolidate the office and study into one decent sized room. Add a closet, and steal some space from it to add an ADA shower to the bath, along with enough room to rotate a chair, and a 42'' hallway to get there. Now you have a dual purpose room that can serve as an accessible guest room. Where are the other bedrooms located? Surely you aren't building a one bedroom house?

There's a lot of wasted space that you're paying extra to construct, and to heat and cool, and pay taxes on. For a household of three, the home is 4x as large as it needs to be. You could remove the entire left half of the plan and never notice it was gone. Those rooms just won't get used. Especially the DR. And the master closet is larger than the bedroom in my first house, but can't store as many clothes as I had in two reach in closets! The home is laid out awkwardly, with poor flow, duplicate purpose spaces that are awkward and will never get used, and it's not visitor or occupant friendly. Just try to have people find the front door with the giant snout of the garage obscuring it!

I don't know what your budget is, but spending it on a pretty expensive to construct and live in home in order to actually live in maybe 1/4 of the space isn't a wise use of that budget.

The kitchen design needs lots of work. The sink is too far from the areas it's used most often--taking things from the fridge or cook-top to the sink. Imagine trying to drain a pot of boiling pasta in that kitchen. It's an accident waiting to happen. I would recommend looking at floor plans with a similar kitchen size for ideas or posting the kitchen in the Kitchens forum.

I have to agree that all of that seating at the island will further interfere with the kitchen flow. It's hard to tell, but it appears as if there will be about 2 feet of walking space behind the kitchen stools. That's not enough to open the ovens safely or the fridge. It will be a huge pain for the cook and for the occupants of the kitchen. In a house this size, that should not happen.

I have to agree that the kitchen seems somewhat cramped for a large house...and one of my neighbors has a similar set up w/ a long, narrow island dividing a kitchen walled in on both sides. Her fridge and beverage station are on the opposite wall from her sink and range. I am at her house quite a bit for social events and OMG...that set up is a pain for even a guest! I was helping her clean up and what a hassle to put away leftovers, wash dishes, etc. She told me she HATES it, which is a shame since the house is gorgeous, 5,000 sqft, their forever home. I am so grateful that my sink, fridge, range, and micro are all close to each other in the south/west sides of my island. I honestly would not enjoy working in a kitchen with my fridge on the other side of the island. I really would rethink that. I would somehow incorporate the dinette space or something to reconfigure the kitchen. Plus you have no windows!

OP: Something to consider, which may or may not apply to you: What happens if you have a guest who can't use your stairs? (My grandma will not visit my brother because his main floor only has a half bath, and she isn't mobile enough to go upstairs.)

It might be nice to make your half bath on the main floor a full bath just in case. I would also combine the study and office for one larger space. That would give you the room play with to accomplish the full bath. That sun room looks a little on the small side to be welcoming. If the spaces were combined, you could have room for a daybed or murphy bed + your office space as backup guest room. Also, your sunroom could have A LOT more windows. :)

I really like your plans, and violently disagree with most of the advice you've been given. I *LIKE* that you break the space up into different rooms. Knocking out a kitchen wall would let kitchen smells waft into the dining room and remove places you could put cabinets. A big open space is the last thing you need for an office...you want a small room with doors you can close to keep people and noise out. I like a house with a lot of different rooms where each person can be doing there own thing.

As far as the full bath on the main floor...that's expensive. A family of three doesn't need two full baths.

I will agree it is unfortunate that your kitchen has no windows...good for letting out heat and cooking smells.

You all have advice and opinions that I will mull over. Love it!
I do want to add that I have been in a house with this floor plan and it's beautiful, especially as you walk in the front door. Also the stools in the kitchen are backless and will usually be under the table and the master closet will have a counter and ironing board. I like lots of separate rooms,too.

You are so lucky to have a spouse and child who actually push their stools back in under the counter. Can you send them to my house to teach my spouse and child to do that?

Focusing on the kitchen, I think the island is fine as a working island, but not for seating at all, except maybe a couple of stools could be at the far end facing the dinette. That is, unless you do as some have already suggested and make it an L-shaped kitchen so all the appliances will be inside the L and the other side will be open and free for seating.

Can't tell how wide your kitchen is?

Our kitchen is 16' wide (interior dimension) with counters on both sides and a table in the middle. It is just fine with folks at the table but I would not want the kitchen any narrower. I would suggest you at least slide your refrigerator down a smidge so the open door doesn't come close to someone seated at the island.

The kitchen needs work, but the location of the fridge is where you can "push it back" into the pantry area so that it doesn't stick out into the aisle-space infront of the cabinets. Fridges, even counter depth ones, are deeper than counters. Counter depth fridges cost extra money. Your plan, should you keep it, would allow you to bump the back wall back into the pantry a bit to let the front of the fridge (standard depth even) sit even with the counters...

Consider that.

Change dinette door to outswing.
Is the island really a table, 31" H or a regular cabinet height?
Can the stools/chairs slide all the way under? If so, then it really has no storage? If it has storage, where do the six stools go?
I agree that as drawn it's a major hindrance.
Casey

Just a quick idea for the kitchen...and if you make the sunroom a bit bigger, you could use the brick from the fireplace for extra heat retention. Hope this helps :)
{{gwi:1498577}}From Kitchen plans

Seems I need to tweek kitchen. Here are my (baby steps) changes! :)
Should I send it over to the kitchen forum?

That's a good idea! They will probably tell you to flip the main sink and dishwasher and suggest you add a prep sink on the island :)

You really don't have room for all those stools (which they will also tell you) unless you make the kitchen wider. How would you stand at the sink, if someone is sitting at the stool?

I do like all the storage though...and great idea (Kirkhall) to recess the fridge!

Thanks Lavender !
Love your sunroom idea!

This post was edited by willietom on Thu, Sep 11, 14 at 2:15

Yes, go to the Kitchens Forum and ask for help regarding that Kitchen.

One thing, the DR is so far away, I would hesitate to remove the Dinette table space...plus there will already be a Sun Room.

"...the "pocket office" will be a sun room..."

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchens' Forum

Your outswing door is an okay idea (but not the best). But, if you have it outswing, have it swing the other way, so it opens against the wall of the FR.

If it were me (and I know you're not), I'd change the right FR window and put the door to the patio/deck there; freeing up the space in the dinette...

Thanks Kirkhall. I'll swing it the other way. DH doesn't want door in FR ... He says(" It will mess up FR windows"). Oh and I'm also taking your advise about recess room for fridge!

I personally have the oh-so-common kitchen - breakfast room - family room setup, and I love it and would hate to have the kitchen enclosed in a windowless box. However, I don't have to live in your house, and you don't have to live in mine, so it's all good.

I don't like the dinette door any better as an outswing. I was the one who said that the inswing door would prohibit a table's placement . . . but an exterior outswing door really doesn't work. First, where are the hinges? Not where you want them. Second, it can limit your porch furniture placement. Two suggestions: 1) Go with a sliding glass door, which eliminates the issue of swing altogether -- the new ones look just like French doors. OR 2) do away with that door altogether and place the door in the great room. Either one is a better option that keeping this door in this location. If you (or another owner) ever decide that you want a table in this location, having a proper door allows you the option.

an exterior outswing door really doesn't work. First, where are the hinges? Not where you want them.

What do you mean? I have a number of exterior outswing doors and we don't have a problem with the hinges.

That dining room is miles from your kitchen. Which is fine if your dining room will only be used for show or once a year dinners.

The dinette doors should be a giant slider - as big as you can get it, so there will be some light in the kitchen. Which way does the back of the house face- south? West? because if its facing north- it will be raelly dark in there.

Is the garage angled? I love my angled garage -great for encouraging guests to use the front door! Hated that my guests in my house with a side facing garage always used the garage as an entry because it was right there.

Outswing doors usually have hinges on the exterior. Which makes removing the hinge pins and therefore doors, really easy to do, even if the door is "locked".

Nepool, the back faces SW and the garage is angled!

Mrspete, maybe I'll have a table in breakfast room after all.

Outswing would be fine, assuming you got one with the correct security features. :) (See below.) Whatever you do, don't do the inswing!

"Security �" The first red flag most people throw out when I recommend an outswing door is the security risk. They feel the exposed hinge pins are a weak spot thieves can exploit. That may have been the case many years ago but security style hinges are common and standard on outswing and many inswing doors. Tabs or studs on the hinges prevent the door panel from being removed even when the pins are popped out. The tabs and studs are either integrated into the hinge leaves or can be retrofitted to old hinge models. And some hinges also have special threaded pins that resist extraction without a special tool. So with the hinge issue off the table, an outswing door is actually more secure than an inswing door.

Inswing doors are a cinch to kick in even when deadbolts and deep-screwed strike plates are used. Outswing doors on the other hand are next to impossible to kick-in and unlikely to be yanked out on the strike side (unless a thief chains the door handle the bumper of a waiting car)."

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.finehomebuilding.com/item/15212/inswing-or-outswing-doors

duplicate post

This post was edited by nepool on Fri, Sep 12, 14 at 22:32

Have you gotten estimates for building this plan? I'm thinking that it may not be a very economical build. I ask that because I also think that there is a lot of wasted space that could be cut.

edlincoln- I violently agree with you! Dinnete faces SW with large windows.
Oaktown and Kirkwall- I'm sliding fridge down and bumping it back into pantry
Sombreuil- the island table will be counter height and open underneath with shallow drawers all around.
Livewire- yes we have the estimates. Will you point out the wasted space for me?
hollysprings- I know someone who has a very similar floor plan and it flows beautifully. No it isn't a one bedroom house, silly! :) I've posted on kitchen forum.

This post was edited by willietom on Sat, Sep 13, 14 at 0:48

Our floor plan is similar to yours in some ways, only our master is on the reverse side of the house and we have a "family room" off the kitchen. Guessing it would be too late for you to make a similar shift? You could then eliminate the long hallway and you would no longer have your master right up next to the kitchen where you can hear everyone having breakfast/ late night snacks, etc. Here is an early version of our downstairs floor plan before we customized, in case that gives you any ideas.

edlincoln, you've mentioned smells before, so I gotta tell you, the layout above will do nothing to prevent smells from wafting. My current kitchen is separated from my dining room by a wall. The living room is in front of that, and then the front door. And when I've left the slowcooker on, I can smell dinner as soon as I walk in the front door. For me, it's a nice thing. I can also come home to the smell of fresh bread if I'm using the bread maker. But if smell is a concern for you, you need to completely enclose the kitchen, with a door. Make sure there are no vents. Consider putting it in the basement.

The only thing that wall does for us is prevents us from seeing the dining room. And as a result, we don't use it. Except at Christmas. And even then, I hate it because I'll get up to go get more sweet potatoes, and I'll miss everything going on in the dining room. It doesn't prevent ANYONE from seeing the kitchen. Because everyone knows there's a kitchen somewhere, so they go looking for it. And once there, they don't go back to the dining room unless someone insists. Day to day, stuff gets piled on the DR table, and then it stays there for months, because we don't see it, and don't get an urge to clean it up.

The new house will not have a wall separating the kitchen and DR. Because in this house, it's wasted space, and wasted space was something we aggressively tried to avoid in the new house.

In this layout, the cabinets lost by removing that wall are not a significant portion of that kitchen's storage. In exchange, you'll gain room for the stools around the island, so someone can be sitting while someone is washing dishes.

If you happen to like the idea of going to the kitchen "for pickles" during large dinners just to get away from people for a few moments, that's your thing. If you want a room you're only ever going to use on very special occasions, it's your house. But be aware of how your reality fits your imagination. And don't act like the rest of us are morons for knowing our own lifestyles.

Thank you beagles, it is too late. I love your plan though.

I wanted to give you a few pictures of a near identical layout for inspiration. I'm trying to find the floor plan. If I can, I'll upload that so you can reference the dimensions. We really loved that kitchen; the only complaint we had was the sink faced a wall, because we didn't want a pass-through window going into the living room.

Another view...

We found the floor plan. One other thing that I think really helped with the flow, we had the breakfast nook door changed from how you currently have it to a 45 deg angle. This helped eliminate those hard lines and sharp edges, open up the interior living space, and only take away minimally from the rear covered patio

Asher that is almost identical! Do you find the walk to the fridge as annoying as others have pointed out?

Amberm, the food odors don't concern me at all, it's just that the kitchen I have right now is open to FR and I'm over it. I should have mentioned that DH will use dining room for occasional business meetings. It's far enough from kitchen for that purpose but not so far that it will be a problem for the occasional holiday meal.

No, not at all. We used very little countertop space along the walls and almost exclusively used the large island. That was the floor plan on the last house we built. I've got a few more pictures along (I think) with the cabinet layout and design. If you want some more, send me an email (in my profile page) and I'll get them to you.

I couldn't tell on your plan how wide the kitchen is. I wouldn't go any narrower than what we had or it will start getting pretty tight.

Good luck!

You just don't want the fridge and the sink on opposite sides of the island to where you'll bump your hip every time going around the barrier island. If you slide the fridge down just a bit (more like you had in your original plan) and the sink too, then the island becomes working space between the 2 and not a barrier to walk around to get from one to the other...