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jessica562

Final plans for comment and review

jessica562
10 years ago

After a very long year working on plans and budgets, we are near the finish line (or the start line?)
We are trying to find the perfect balance between affordability and not compromising too much of our "must haves"
This is a lake house so it is all about the lake views and the sun. The lake is to the south. It will be built in NC Zone 7a. This will be our primary (and only) residence.

There are still a few issues that we need to work through on our plans before permits.
The main sticking point remains the kitchen. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We will need to incorporate double ovens which are currently under the counter.

I am very curious to hear everyones reactions to the design. It is a little different from what i have seen here before.

Thanks in advance!

Comments (22)

  • jessica562
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A look at the small second floor. These bedrooms are included for resale reasons. We will only use this space for guests.

  • jessica562
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Front and Garage side elevations. I can't seem to find rear elevation so I will add it later. Garage is under the house but is being built so that the basement could be finished in the future.

  • virgilcarter
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have a well designed modern house that appears responsive to your needs without going overboard. Thankfully it's not another McMansion with stacked gables or a towering hip roof.

    For double ovens, I'd put them next to the refrigerator, which should leave enough room for a small, full-height pantry cabinet. Actually, I'd put the pantry between the refrigerator and ovens, and ensure all cabinetry is flush face across the refrigerator, pantry, oven area.

    Good luck on your project. I think you'll love it--I would!

  • live_wire_oak
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Love the modern design. We don't get to see enough of them on here!

    I do think the kitchen has issues though. Specifically the single main traffic route in and out of it. I'd lose the peninsula and make the island larger, with a prep faucet located on that island. However, the island also acts as a barrier between the elements, forcing you to play ring around the rosy, so what I would suggest is switching the location of the cooktop and the cleanup sink, and then instead of a large single window, do two separate windows to either side of the cooktop. That should give you a nice tight work triangle, and allow several people to work in the kitchen at once. Separating the prep and cleanup is the key to making any kitchen work well. In a large kitchen that separation is best achieved by a secondary sink. For the wall oven location, once the changes I outlined are made, putting them on the same run as the fridge as Virgil suggests would work well.

    Here's a less than successful cut and paste of my suggestions. Unfortunately, GW resizes pictures posted to them much too small. The kitchen, as originally designed, displays the typical less than functional but pretty looking that is the usual stamp of most of your standard architects. There are some archys who can do well with kitchen design, but those are in the minority.

    This post was edited by live_wire_oak on Wed, Sep 4, 13 at 17:51

  • zone4newby
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like it, but I'm wondering how you envision using the mudroom? Placed where it is, it seems like it doesn't add that much utility to the house. Given that you seem to be building for you and your spouse, it seems like you could have enough storage in the main foyer for your things, and that would let you enjoy your nice foyer all the time instead of saving it for guests.

    Do you anticipate coming and going through the mudroom, despite the tuck-under garage?

    It's not really a problem, it just seems sad to come in to the view of your basement stairs, when you could enter and see your lake view, KWIM? But maybe it's really for gardening or something.

    Is it a swimming lake? If so, you might want to have a shorter path between the deck and a bathroom for wet people.

    I do like the design a lot-- and it's nice to see something different!

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's a pretty big house for just two people. Are you sure you want to clean that much space? And pay for it to be constructed? It won't be a cheap house to construct or maintain. I hope you've had a builder's input as to costs during the design phase. It's always shocking for people to hear that they've designed a 1M house when they really wanted a 500K one.

    And the kitchen is gigantic. That doesn't equal efficient, and this kitchen has several problems with workflow and efficiency. The peninsula/bar area creates a bottleneck for the kitchen entrance, and it also creates traffic flow issues. There's no circulation. It's a dead end space. That means that when you do entertain, there's a giant traffic jam, and then no one gets out of your way, because it's too difficult to enter and exit. Couple that with the fact that the island isn't aiding you in creating a good concise work triangle for a prep zone that keeps people out of that prep zone, and you've got the recipe for a lot of frustration. And roller skates. You've got to do a LOT of traveling around in this kitchen just to prepare a simple meal. Unnecessary travel. That's worse actually than having a too small kitchen where everything is within reach.

    I agree with LWO's idea to ditch the peninsula and make the island larger, with a radius to make seating more inviting. The prep sink is essential to making the kitchen work, or you'll have to work entirely too hard in it. I also agree with the sink/range swap, but since you have a pantry, you might make the flanking windows larger and jettison some of the upper cabinets to do that.

    I'd personally prefer the wall ovens to be on the cooktop run, at the end in a tall cabinet. For dishes that require searing and oven finishing, adjacency is the best choice. Or, you could do a range, and a single wall oven. That gives you the best of both worlds in that you can do the oven finishing directly below the searing, and then you can create a separate baking area if you enjoy doing a lot of that. I do like MW next to the fridge, as that is the most common modality of it's usage: leftover reheating.

    You also might consider just continuing the fridge wall and closing up that door to the mudroom, as it creates traffic interference in the kitchen. It can be accessed through the pantry/hall space without any loss of functionality. That would give you a nice U shaped kitchen with an island and no traffic at all through the prep zone. With the fridge located where it is, the path of least resistance for someone outside to get a drink is straight through where they don;t need to be. You might also consider an outdoor fridge for those outdoor drinks to help avoid this issue.

    If this is to be a home for you as you age, you need to create the master bath with universal design principles in mind. As in no toilet "room" as you can't really access that with a walker. Think about doing a larger wetroom/shower/toilet room where the clearances needed to be handicap accessible combine so that you aren't eating up as much space to create that accessibility. Blocking behind the walls is also a must so that grab bars can be installed later.

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Where are the 3d views? it is kind of hard to get a good idea what it will look like from this and the plans are hard to see at that size.

    I agree with the others put double oven, pantry and fridge together. I would not move the sink but agree that an island would create better flow than a peninsula.

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I already posted my suggestions on the Kitchen Forum under your question with your pumpkinhouse ID, but I'll repost here to add to the discussion here. The plan you originally posted on the KF wasn't as clear as to where the elements were, so there are some errors, as in the island needs to narrower for that traffic path through the kitchen. It's still an improvement to the original pinch point kitchen with poor zoning though. The refrigerator is moved to the other side with the range for access while cooking, yet it's still open to the family room and dining area for easy access. You don't have to navigate a maze around the island to have all the needed cooking elements at hand. You've got fire, water, and cold storage all within a few steps.

    I agree that this won't be a cheap house to build. And ultimately, it won't appraise as highly as a more traditional style home, even though it probably will cost more. That's a tradeoff that you make when you choose contemporary design in a location like anywhere in the traditional bound South. In Miami or Palm Springs, it would be more acceptable, and get a higher bump because of the design. But, you designed modern because you like modern, and that's the whole point of doing a custom build! I personally like the exterior with the shed roofing! Just be prepared for your neighbor's reactions. There's a 30 year old contemporary style home in my neighborhood that's still referred to as "THAT" house by the neighbors! LOL!

  • jessica562
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the feedback. It is a great help. I am going to work on the kitchen today and eliminate the island. Greendesigns and live wire oak both made very good suggestions!

    The mudroom is both a drop zone and a dog zone. The dog door will be built into the wall and we will keep bowls, food, leashes and all things dog in that area. In the future when (if) we build an additional detached garage, this will be the entrance for that garage. In the short term I expect to park near the mudroom door when there is anything to carry.

    The house won't be as expensive to build as you might think...we have been very careful with the design to keep construction costs down. The foundation will only have 6 feet of dirt against it so we can use block or cement walls. The exterior is all fiber siding. No stone anywhere. The interior is very simple with only base moldings. IKEA vanities and cabinets will be featured throughout! In an absolutely worst case scenario we will shell the upstairs for a couple of years. I hope to have the final price in about 3 weeks.
    Please send along any other suggestions you may have, it is a great help!

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Seems to me that if you can't afford to finish it than it is too much house.

    Why would the upstairs be needed for resale?

    We learned in the great housing bubble bust that not everyone can afford a huge house. The baby boomers are now retiring and they are predominantly empty nesters on fixed incomes with little savings.

    If you simply add a shower to the half bath than the downstairs would have 3 bedrooms and 3 baths.

    It seems to have a long bridge to get to the mud room and a tremendous amount of exterior deck that will have to be built and maintained. I don't personally see it as being an inexpensive house.

    I don't know if I would agree that you will take a hit for the modern style -it is a smaller market, but what it really comes down to is supply and demand. There are many less people looking for modern style but there is almost no existing stock. The question will be -does it have the features they want at a price they can afford.

    I would still prefer to see some nice renderings of how it will look.

  • zone4newby
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If cost is a problem, I think the upstairs would be fine with just one bath (putting in two full baths for guests seems like overkill to me anyhow). You could downsize to only 2 bedrooms upstairs too.

    Adding 3 bedrooms and 2 baths for resale seems like a risky investment, IMO.

    This post was edited by zone4newby on Thu, Sep 5, 13 at 12:00

  • jessica562
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, the upstairs area is a bit of a dilemma. For resale on the lake, people seem to go for the family homes and homes with a lot of entertaining space. Small homes are bought and torn down. Our realtor insists that for a family home we need 3 kids rooms on the same level. For our aging parents who visit several times a year we need a downstairs guest suite. I work from home so I need a dedicated office.

    Based on everything I have learned during this process the upstairs isn't that expensive to include since it is already "under roof". The house costs are increased by the fact that we want all of our day to day living on the main level, but that is where we don't want to compromise. All in the house is around 3600 sf. The main level is very similar to our current home which works well for us.

    I hope to have some renderings soon! (and the rear elevation)

    Thanks again!

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes it will be less expensive to build a second floor than build an equivalent amount of space on the ground floor.

    But that really makes no difference if it still makes the house unaffordable to build.

    Well obviously you are not going for the average consumer when you picked the modern style so why be concerned about what the average traditional home buyer on that lake wants in size?

    Is the average home on that lake modern? How long do you plan on staying -is this a home you are hoping to sell quickly?

  • dekeoboe
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We also built a more modern looking house and I am always happy to see others on GW. I just wish the images were bigger as I am having difficulty seeing the dimensions.

    I look forward to seeing the renderings and the back elevation.

  • mrspete
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If this is just for yourself and your husband, I think you're over-building. Specifically, I'd cut out one of the two staircases, and I'd eliminate some of the bathrooms. I can't quite read the plans, so I'm not sure if those are downstairs bedrooms or not, but I certainly wouldn't build 5 bathrooms for two people.

    Yes, resale is a concern, but I'd say build the house that you want, allow a moderate amount of space for your guests . . . and trust that the next owner could add on.

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think that you can trust that there is an extremely large population of empty nesters who are also not looking for a huge house and that number will only grow as the baby boomers fully retire.

  • mrspete
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with ChrisStewart's comment about the baby boomers. My parents downsized when we kids moved out. I intend to downsize in a few years.

    Yes, building a small house is a risk because it's unattractive to some buyers . . . but building a too-large house is unattractive to other buyers! That's why I suggest you build what you actually need and trust that it'll be okay when resale comes along.

  • dekeoboe
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One builds a custom built home to get what they want, and that may a larger home. For what it's worth, when my parents retired to FL they did not downsize, they upsized. And, 18 years later, they still use the entire house. My husband retired and we built our home, which is also a large home, for just the two of us.

    Not all baby boomers want the same thing, so my thought process is if you are going to build a custom built home, build it to suit your family and lifestyle. My philosophy may be influenced by the many moves and houses we have lived in over the last 30 years - never lived anywhere more than 4 years, usually only 2-3 years.

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Size of house is not the point what is affordable is the point. I have seen many clients over build and cause unnecessary stress in their lives.

  • live_wire_oak
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    On a lake, I would think that having the bedrooms upstairs would be more desirable because of the better view. With budget in mind, I'd try to redesign the home to a smaller footprint, with usable bedrooms upstairs, including the master, and the family living spaces below. Of course, that would include a main floor study/office/guest room that had a full handicap accessible bath. But, there is no reason to build such a large home that is outside your budget when building a smaller one will fulfill your needs, and potentially have more appeal for resale whenever that happens. Especially since this is SUCH an expensive home to build, and custom homes generally always go over budget. Starting out over budget isn't a good plan.

  • jessica562
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Finally have the rear elevation file...so I thought I would add it.
    After seeing the feedback on the kitchen we decided to move things around a bit. We are losing the Fridge wall and opening it up more. It will be much simpler and cleaner. Everyones comments were a great help.

    We are moving forward with final pricing now. Hope to be able to lock the loan as soon as possible! Maybe in a few months we will finally have some pictures of construction to share.

  • dekeoboe
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm glad you posted the newly received elevations.

    I have a suggestion regarding the windows/doors. You might want to consider making some of them fixed glass rather than operational. Usually it isn't necessary to open all the windows/doors in a room, especially if they are all on one wall, and fixed windows will be less expensive. The trade off is it can be more difficult to clean them. With the double casement windows, you could consider making only one side operational. That way you could still get to the fixed side to clean it. The doors and windows off the deck should not be that difficult to clean if they are non-operational.