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pbx2_gw

Pros vs. Cons buying plumbing fixtures on-line?

pbx2_gw
11 years ago

So I've read some past discussions on here @ gw.com but I'd like to relight the fire a bit since we are @ this moment in our build phase.

Our local F..son's is providing some discussion points in its argument against buying plumbing parts to our builder.

Our contract with our builder does not prevent us from supplying our own parts as part of the allowance; builder has only stated that he uses F..son for ease of communication should issues arise during construction but that's it.

So F..son's arguments are:

1) Missing parts in delivery

2) Owner fails to order special parts required for installation

3) Plumber needs to make additional trips if parts are incompatible from outset.

4) F..son's has special "wholesale quality trades fit only" parts & fixtures

5) As part of builder's 1 year home warranty, builder will have to chase down missing parts which may not be same# as trades or mass vendors.

In our own situation, we spent a couple of hours w/ the F..son's designer & they essentially showed us around the store & we picked what was shown on the floor - without really sitting down for hours pouring over their different catalogs.

Some picks turned out to be the same as another of our builder's houses in this development. (not very custom if you ask me)

Ultimately, after compiling a workbook & discovering what our style really was, we were able to nail down on our choices on our own & submitted a list to F..son's for a quote.

F..son's ended up costing $1500 more & they have supposedly access to every single one on our list from their inventory.

Now, we'd rather buy local to support our economy here but @ $1500, we could also buy a home warranty to eliminate all the issues that arises out of the list above.

So, we would appreciate any debate points from the community to educate & highlight for us any PRO's & CONS because right now, with the amount of prep hours that we have poured into our research on the fixtures parts & their compatibility & knowing far more now (help from you all here btw!) than going in - I can say with confidence that:

1) There is no magical parts that a good plumber has, that can only fit F..son's bought fixtures.

2) That a good plumber is able to problem solve any component issue esp. if he's not selling the fixtures & is only fitting it to the water line

3) That the good builder/contractor/construction/inspector team we have assemble will resolve any assembly issue of our on-line components without being a $1500 or more additional cost or cause delays due to parts issues.

4) the F..son's is not selling anything of quality difference than what we are able to get from build.com sites or other reputable vendors.

5) There is no guarantee that F..son's can resolve any parts compatibility issue themselves as quickly as a reputable on-line vendor.

Comments (21)

  • pbx2_gw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    @ caben - thank you for your fantastic feedback!
    Hear you loud & clear & understand too! ;)

    I think what the locals are counting on is the fear that some how you will screw it up as a homeowners.
    That's a bit insulting in this information day & age and a bit short sighted. & yes fd.com is an awesome site with the best service reps around. Almost like having our own personal designer!

    Like you we have put in a lot of man hours & plan on discussing each component with our builder to lessen any chances of mismatching our supply lines or serviceability issues.

    But like you, if we can get the locals to get close enough then we can give them the bid to lessen the friction. Intuitively, I don't see how there could be if we get 99.9% of it prepped & lock & loaded for them!

  • _sophiewheeler
    11 years ago

    As a test, see if you can put together a shower system using the correct valve for the plumbing type and types of output needed. 99% can't do it and end up ordering something wrong. Which they don't even know is wrong until the plumber shows up and can't do the install.

    You will have to educate yourself extensively to do this job, and if you do it wrong, yes, it will cost you MUCH more than $1500. You've got trip charges from your plumber if he has to go to the local showroom to buy something correct NOW that will work and come back to the site a second time. Not to mention that it's now past the accepted return date for the net products that you bought so you end up selling it on Craigslist for 1/6th of what you bought it for.

    I know money doesn't grow on trees. But unless you are EXTREMELY detail oriented here, as well as are arranging delivery weeks in advance, then checking everything off, you have a good chance of mistakes taking you over that $1500 "savings". On the other hand, if you've got the time to educate yourself enough, then you could end up saving that $1500. But don't forget, that time is money, and if you could be using 100+ hours to make money, then you aren't saving a dime.

  • renovator8
    11 years ago

    My concern is that plumbing fixtures sold on the internet (and often in big box stores) are not the same fixtures sold by the major manufacturers although they may have similar or the same model names. You're buying "a pig in a poke". If you will not be disappointed to find that your faucets are not really nickel plating on brass or the knob won't turn the water off completely and the fixture must be replaced, then you will be OK.

    In my opinion the best bargains are the most expensive fixtures if you choose them well but I don't expect anyone to believe that if they haven't been doing this as long as I have.

    I paid $300 for a pair of shoes one time and they lasted 25 years so they were the cheapest shoes I ever owned. Unfortunately, people rarely own houses as long as shoes.

  • pbx2_gw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    hollysprings - have you seen the build.com sites?
    Even you (& us 99%) can put together a 'complex' plumbing job with that site.

    & they have a generous return policy too.

    But then building a house is not for the faint of heart nor the lack of time. It's another full-time job.

  • caben15
    11 years ago

    It depends on the complexity of the thing you're assembling.

    I did spec a pretty elaborate shower... and FD.com does not sell a single package that replicates it so I had to find all the bits. This did take some time and cross-referencing with kohler.com etc.

    There are undoubtedly shady sites. But nothing I've ever received from FD has been anything other than what it claimed to be - right down to model #s matching that on the mfr website with no different suffixes or other games. But then again, FD is not the cheapest e-tailer.

    As for whether or not this is worth my time... especially when we may end up just letting the contractor buy everything anyway - well, part of this for me is knowing I turned over every stone, that I got the best product for me. I won't have any regrets about what someone else picked out for me. And part of me enjoys the process.

    Is this for everyone? Definitely not. But most people don't build custom homes either.

  • mjtx2
    11 years ago

    We're just finishing our house (yes, in 5.5 months. They build 'em quick here in Illinois ;)

    Here's how we did it: I went to the plumbing supply house, got the tour, and took the catalogs home and poured over them. Then I looked up the model numbers online, mostly on faucetdirect.com. I then sent my contractor the links to what I had picked out, which of course included the prices.

    He then went to the plumbing supply house directly (bypassing the plumber) and asked about matching the online price. Sometimes they did it, sometimes they didn't, but faucetdirect does a great job with service and does accept returns so we used them a TON. It was more a concern about time issues - if something wasn't right you'd have to wait to get parts shipped, etc.

    We got some sinks from mrdirect.com and one came in broken, which they took back for return and quickly shipped another. Another good online experience.

    Actually our local electrician BEAT the online prices by quite a bit! So whenever we could, we bought light fixtures from them.

    The point is ... if you buy from reputable online sites you'll be fine. We had zero missing part on ANYTHING. But if your local guy wants to meet the price, that's probably preferable (buying local, problems can be solved faster).

  • _sophiewheeler
    11 years ago

    OK, as I mentioned, do a test run. :)

    Pick out the right components to put in a large master shower. You want a regular shower head, 4 body sprays (with them being controlled 2 and 2) two hand held units (one next to the regular shower head, another in the bench area) and a rain head. All of this should match and be able to be controlled independently or simultaneously with the proper anti scald protection.

    Hint: this is a trick question as it supposes that you actually have enough water pressure and supplied hot water to deal with all of that. Most homes won't, and a lot of DIYers don't find that information out first and then end up with a lot of unusable product because they put the cart before the horse. In real life, you WILL have to solve the supply problem yourself first before you can even consider the delivery problem. And the elimination problem that all of that water will cause, so you have to understand drains also (and pick out one that will match).

    I'm sure with enough research you can do this. And research can even be fun! Unless you are have a time sensitive decision now that has to be made. Such as, "We're ahead of schedule, we need all the plumbing stuff next week, not in three weeks, so you have to order it TODAY so it will be here." (LOL! As if ahead of schedule is ever in the vocabulary of any builder!)

    You're on the stopwatch. Go! :)

  • Ray72
    11 years ago

    My contract allows me to provide the fixtures. When I submitted the model numbers to the builder, he sent it to plumbing sub for prices.

    He (the builder) sent me an itemized list (from the plumbing sub) that had prices and I can't beat them on any of the websites except for Ebay. Can't talk myself into that!

    I don't know if that is usual, but we shopped F-son to find what we liked and used their prices to guide in the ball park. I then priced all at FD.com and the sub has it beat on every item except a couple of valves.

    Curious to see if we have the same luck on lighting!

  • bdpeck-charlotte
    11 years ago

    I have friends that worked for American Standard and I can assure you that if the model number is the same, the fixture is the same. The SKU might change vendor to vendor, but not the fixture.

    We bought all of ours online. Our only issue was that our plumber claimed we didn't get the valves for the master shower... but my wife and I opened and inspected every box and they were there. We gave him the fixtures to install the pipe stubouts on the valves off site. He lost them... or sold them. But we went to F...son and paid the retail price there and moved on... with a new plumber.

    As long as a licensed plumber installs, the manufacturer warranty is good on all your products. The builder warranty is only as good as the builder and his subs... and most are worthless once you've taken possession. If a plumbing fixture has an issue, you'll be going through your homeowner's insurance anyway, not your builder.

    PS We did have a fixture fail. Our vanity/sink/faucet combo bought online had a handle pop off and flood part of our main floor and basement... Beware buying a combo that includes the faucet. We now have a kohler faucet there.

    Brian

  • brickeyee
    11 years ago

    You better never need warranty service.

    The plumber is not going to provide it.

  • pbx2_gw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Brian - it appears from your experience & that of others that there is no magical parts differences between what the locals yocals offer vs. what a reputable on-line vendor offers.

    You've raised great points about who takes care of what in case of malfunction & as has been mentioned: preparation, communication, and proper professional installation are what is important.
    Where one buys the parts plays little to no part in the success or failure of said parts.

    Thank you for the examples.

  • dmdodo
    7 years ago

    I'm going through this very debate with my builder and his plumbing sub as we speak... Its crazy what some of these specialty stores, and brands charge for plumbing fixtures. In Europe they have gone to a CE standard certification which really opens up a buyer's choices with regards to such things as fixtures and electronics, and it seems to be working just fine over there.... Here in North America the builder will put the fear of god in you if you even suggest that you will get something online.

  • zippity1
    7 years ago

    we chose a lot of our plumbing/lighting fixtures in stores in houston then went online with model numbers for the best prices we didn't have a single problem with anything we ordered, our builder buys most of his materials the same way and was happy we suggested doing it ourselves, we ordered well in advance and stored all materials onsite in a shop we constructed very early in the build all he had to do was go in and pick up whatever was needed items included kohler tubs and sinks, faucets, all lighting fixtures, fans even a tile mural we used in the kitchen

  • C&V T
    7 years ago
    @brickeyee- a plumber would only be involved in a warranty situation if his install failed. No plumber is going to warrant the part whether sold by a F-son or FD.com. So it doesn't technically matter where I buy my parts from. If the parts fail, I goto the vendor whether on-line or @ a B&M.
  • Renee Texas
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    We were lucky in that our plumber's prices were right in line with what I found online. However, I think there is something to be said for maintaining the goodwill of the plumber (he's not exasperated if bits and pieces are missing, or other issues due to delivery), as well as potential warrenty type issues. Aditionally, our builder uses a local guy, and in this small town I'd call him if we had plumbing issues 4, 5, 10 years down the road- he knows his work, he can fix it back up, and I I'd rather not leave a bad memory.

    I also find it much more effective to go park myself in a store if there is a problem rather than deal with people online (if a part happened to fail down-the-line).

    Now, what this may be worth is up to you, and which items are worth potentially annoying the builder and/or plumber vs. other things you may want to do differently in your build.

  • Ichabod Crane
    7 years ago

    Your saving $1500 ordering online? Really?

    Not worth it in any way. If it were ten times that amount, I MIGHT consider it. But that little chump change? No.

    And what the heck is F...son?

    And home warranties are WORTHLESS.

  • C&V T
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Almost 4 years now since I posted the OP.

    We ended up saving ~$2.5k ordering ourselves.

    Nothing like 10 hours of grey matter equity in not having to compromise, didn't need our hands held, & didn't pay MSRP + markups.

    Our builder even got builder pricing for ordering the items on line for us.

    No leaks or breaks. Loving life.

    If it was chump change, I wouldn't be posting here like a Trump that's for sure.

    **Why 10 hours? That was the amount of research & printing all the installation manuals from the manufacturers online & putting it a binder for the trades who really appreciated having that on site. Not all hardware components are alike - so yes, they needed to RTFM.

  • JDS
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Being able to use your builder to buy the fixtures online for you is a major advantage unlikely to be available to everyone. I've only seen it done on cost of the work jobs where the plumber has a good relationship with the GC.

  • Candace Stevens
    7 years ago

    Pbx2 Glad everything worked out for you. My DH and I are building a new house on Long Island NY and so far I have bought every plumbing fixture on line. I have only ordered from Faucetsdirect, for my master bath and saved over $1500.00 I think thats a big savings. We have not had a problem and our plumber has looked over everything.

    Can't wait for it all to be installed!

  • C&V T
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    @qtcandi - There's real savings.

    The online purchases weren't made blindly. I'd say we know more about the hardware, engineering, & installation than just walking in & trusting a sales person @ F_son with a catalogue.

    Building a house is a serious business & a once in a life time endeavor for many consumer. Having that same faucet that your neighbor has & paying markup on it does not make a custom build build feel custom!

    & the education we've given ourselves provide the security that things will be installed right. We weren't the types to play victims after throwing money (at MSRP??) at people we hire & not know a little about what is going on. Our research & hands on collaboration with our builder & the trades really made this a rewarding build.

    Can't wait for you to feel the same! Best wishes on your build!