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Help!! Door thickness!!!

Posted by lolab (My Page) on
Sat, Sep 3, 11 at 10:22

Decisions, decisions . . .

OK, so like everyone else, I'm spending a fortune. No, really. The checks are flying fast and furious, and I'm losing sleep over it. So even though we're pretty much close to budget, I want to economize wherever possible, not spend needlessly, while not cheaping out.

That being said, I have a quote for 1 3/4" solid core masonite doors. When I asked how much for the 1 3/8", I got a vague "oh, it would be about 10% less."

I have about 30 doors which are going to run me about $4400 (the quote isn't in front of me -- just a ballpark for the sake of this discussion), so 10% is obviously about $440 plus tax. It's not a huge amount of savings, but every little bit adds up.

Do I really need/want 1 3/4" doors? I don't think I've ever even seen that size.

Will the thicker doors require me to make any other changes/incur any other expenses I'm overlooking at this point?

What did everyone else choose?

They'll be solid core either way.

Thanks.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

That is a pretty thick door. If the upcharge is only 10%, I might like to get some. I have a feeling it is a little more than that.

I would think an installer might charge more for labor.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Thanks David --

It does sound like it's going to feel luxuriously high end. I know how much they're charging for the thicker doors because that's what they quoted me. It's the 10% savings on the thinner door that I'll have to nail down. Sounds like the standard thickness should be a bigger savings than what they're ball parking for me.

I have noticed a tendency on the part of my lumber yard to try to sell me high end stuff, even though I've met with them several times and impressed upon them my frugal nature. For example, for my front door, they casually mentioned that I should check out the jeld-wen custom doors. YIKES!!! I found one on clearance for 70% off and it was still around $5000!!

I guess I'm going to have to make them prepare an official quote for the standard doors. I think there's some $$$ to be found there that I can happily use elsewhere.

Have you noticed that when you save $500 by careful shopping you end up spending it 3 times over on something else?


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

"I know how much they're charging for the thicker doors because that's what they quoted me."

Door jambs?

Door thickness directly affect how the jambs are dimensioned.

It is not hard to change, but another additional cost.
Anything that is not 'standard' costs more.

"I got a vague "oh, it would be about 10% less." "

That does not dound like a "quote" but an of the cuff answer.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

You might want to consider hollow doors for pantry, closets etc and save $$.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

We JUST made this decision. I was with you - had I ever seen one? It turns out my parents have solid wood doors going into their study which are 1 3/4 inch and the door next to it is 1 3/8. They are both 7' doors though. My builder kept saying he likes the thicker ones, puts them in all the high end houses, etc. What we decided to do is use the 1 3/4 doors on all the 8' doors - really not that many - except the pocket doors (we have 3 8' pocket doors - one double and one single - these had to be narrower because of the stud distance).

The cost difference was 50 dollars a door or there about - we don't have that many 8' doors because we have an open house plan so we have several rooms with no doors. Our upstairs, basement and back hall have lower ceilings and 7' doors. There were 9 doors we upgraded for about 450.00. I hope it was the right decision. I have a friend who has all thicker ones on her 8' doors and she says the proportion looks better on that tall of a door. . .

That being said, this falls into the category of something NO ONE will notice so if you don't think it would bother you (and I was in that camp too but just pressured and had to make a quick decision), this is a place to save a little money where no one will ever notice!


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Doors

Oh and ours are solid core masonite too and the upcharge was more like 20 percent.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

We may not have the same doors - ours ranged from close to 200-250 a door depending on width and height. We priced the MDF doors. You may be doing another door - they have several solid core options. . . so your price difference may well be less. If you are not doing another door, we need to revisit our pricing!!!


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

"masonite doors"

You may actually find solid wood doors for the same price, and they are much lighter (and stronger) than the pressed Masonite ones.

The last time I needed a lot of six panel doors for a renovation I purchased a shaper and all the tooling to make them.

It came out to about one third of the purchase cost.

I became VERY good at making doors with mortise and tenon joints, far better doors than I could purchase.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Traditionally interior doors are 1 3/8" thick and exterior doors are 1 3/4" thick but they can be used interchangeably if the correct frame throat depths are available.

If you are talking about Masonite paneled molded composite doors with solid cores, the 1 3/8" thick version is made with a low-density composite (wood fiber) core (called the Safe N Sound option) and the 1 3/4" door is made with a particleboard core and has a higher STC rating and a 20 min. fire rating.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Traditionally interior doors are 1 3/8" thick and exterior doors are 1 3/4" thick but they can be used interchangeably if the correct frame throat depths are available.

If you are talking about Masonite paneled molded composite doors with solid cores, the 1 3/8" thick version is made with a low-density composite (wood fiber) core (called the Safe N Sound option) and the 1 3/4" door is made with a particleboard core and has a higher STC rating and a 20 min. fire rating.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

This is the door we are using, which is different from the one Renovator mentioned. It is traditional stile and rail construction which is made differently from the molded one. It has a lot of heft to it which we wanted. We love a heavy solid feeling door.

http://www.masonite.com/product_features_MDFPanel.php


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

The term "solid core" implies that the space between two thin faces of a door is filled with particle board, composite wood fiber, staved wood, etc. The two most common faces are a molded synthetic face or a veneer wood face. They can also be paneled or flush.

A true wood style and rail paneled door would be solid without a core and the same would be true of an MDF door which can be made up like a wood style and rail door or routed from a single solid panel. IMHO the ultimate version of a one piece MDF door is made by Bolection.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bolection Door


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Thanks to all for weighing in.

athensmom -- We are not using the same door. Ours is the molded fiberglass. I hadn't noticed the stile and rail option you selected, but I know the prices you're quoting are higher than our per door quote, so I think I'm not even going to go there. You're spending my money, not saving it!! They do look nice, though . . . . I think you're right -- after the fact, no one (including me) will ever notice, so it may be a place to save some dough.

Emily -- good idea about interchanging with the hollow doors. I simply prefer the feel of the solid ones, so I'm willing to bite that particular bullet.

Renovator8 -- listen to you, with all your fancy lingo!! I had to google STC to find out what you meant (sound transmission class, for the rest of us amateurs). Certainly a consideration, but for me, not the deciding factor. The fire rating info was interesting though, but we really don't keep our interior doors closed (not until the kiddies hit puberty, after which they are never open). I think I needed someone to tell me that 1 3/8" is the norm. If I do decide on the 1 3/4" and they're prehung, isn't the jamb already adjusted to fit, and the cost included in the quote? I think I see what you mean, though. That is driving the overall cost higher.

I had beautiful solid wood doors in my last home and loved them. I recalled that they were not outrageously expensive at the time, so I asked about them first. They were soooo pricey!! I couldn't believe how much they had gone up! But make them myself?? Good God, man, just choosing the doors has me in a tizzy!! You don't happen to live on Long Island, do you? Looking for a little weekend project? I know this nice girl who's building a house . . . .

Bottom line -- I'm going to make my lumber yard prepare a quote for the 1 3/8" to see if the difference is really only 10 %. Then I'm going to go to 2 other suppliers to see if the quote is competitive. I'm also going to have them price out 2 or 3 doors in the solid wood, just to see what we're talking about, and if the #s are closer than what lumber yard #1 ball parked for wood, I'm going with . . .

1. wood
2. 1 3/4" (if it's really only 10% more)
3. 1 3/8" (if the price difference is more like 25 - 30%, which I suspect is the case)

Once I make my decision, I intend to forget everything I had to learn about interior doors . . . .


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

"We love a heavy solid feeling door. "

Make sure at least one hinge screw (and all the hinge screws would be better) is replaced with a 2-3 inc long screw of a matching size (diameter) to gt all the way into the framing.

Use a correct size and depth pilot hole to ensure the screws get a good bight in the h ole.

While an oversize holes makes the screws easier to drive, it greatly reduce their holding power.

If you get solid brass screws make sure you drive a steel screw in the hole first.
Brass screws are soft enough to snap if driven into a new hole that is correctly sized (it should take that much force to drive the screw the last few turns).

The typical screws supplied with door hinges do not even reach past the jamb.

The is especially important for heavy or exterior doors.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

30 doors for about $4400 is pretty cheap if you ask me!

Here is a link that might be useful: Custom Mahogany Doors


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

1 3/4" solid core (they are particle board by default) are _incredibly heavy_. In addition to the extra hinge screws, I would recommend 5/4 jambs, ball-bearing hinges, and very stout floor-mounted door stops. These doors get a lot of inertia.
The only doors heavier are cement-filled fire doors.
Casey


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Is there really that much of a weight difference between the 1 3/8 and the 1 3/4? I wouldn't think the 1/4 inch would make that much of a difference, pound wise. I have three boys so the thought of them being used as weapons has occurred to me!


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

The difference in thickness is 3/8" and because it covers the entire door, and the core is usually denser, it probably increases the weight by a third.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Update --

here are the actual #s:

a) 1-3/4 solid core 2 panel doors; jambs are a combination of 4-5/8" and 6-5/8" (depending on the framing); 25 doors = $4312.00

b) 1-3/8" solid core 2 panel doors, same jambs, same # of doors = $3786.00

The quote doesn't say whether either door is the Safe 'N' Sound -- it appears that this is an option. Guess that's another call to the lumber yard. I've also sent an inquiry off to the manufacturer, since I couldn't find any info about the weight difference between the 2 thicknesses (thanks for the heads up, Renovator8 and sombreuil.

So the difference is $526 plus tax, more than the 10% I was "guesstimated", but not as great as I was hoping. I guess I'll wait to see what the manuf says about the weight. Oh, and for my contractor to get me a # for solid wood (not holding my breath on that one).


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Lolab, what did you ultimately choose for your doors?

To everyone who was on this thread, any opinions on using ball bearing hinges even on a 1 & 3/8" door? Does having a ball bearing hinge make the door open and close more smoothly, or have any other benefits?

My jambs have been framed for 3/4, not 5/4 jambs. Brickeyee, I really liked your comment about getting longer screws than what come with the door. If we went with 1 3/4" doors, is the 5/4 jamb necessary if we select ball bearing hinges and longer screws?

Can you easily get ball bearing hinges and longer screws in oil rubbed bronze finish, or would we need to look at a specialty supplier?


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Interesting thread. I have Trustile doors in my 6 yr old house and I do remember thinking that they were rather spendy at the time but did not remember even thinking about any difference in thickness of doors. Didn't realize there was a difference and had to measure mine. They are 1 3/8". They are 7 ft. and very heavy. We used long screws rather than the screws that came with the hinges.

Then I read further and came across R8 posts re: fire doors, so I measured the thickness of the door between my garage and my house and it is 1 3/4". I had no idea it was thicker all of these years.

Great thread. Glad you started it. Like your doors Athensmom. I will compare them to Trustile for my house in the 5 panel---maybe this brand will work.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

I am trying to get an idea of how to compare Simpson to Masonite brand, or other brands, molded doors only. It's hard to get a true feel for if there is a difference in quality, although it seems that Masonite may be lesser quality.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

This is an old thread but I clicked on the door I said I used and it was the wrong one :) We used a 3 panel door but the middle panel is smaller. . .

We are very happy with the quality of our doors. Trustile was more expensive. We will see how they wear down the road but they look great!

As far as comparing doors, can you go to a lumberyard? I didn't but I knew which style I wanted and the first manufacturer my builder recommended didn't make them in that style.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Yes, I went to a lumberyard today and the millenium collection had a nice look. I am going to another one tomorrow.

Thanks...


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Boy, oh boy, did you dredge up some unpleasant memories by reviving this thread.

Long story short, I went with the Masonite 1-3/8" Roman top solid core doors, 7' height. They have the nice heft I was looking for and I'm very happy with them.

That being said, I'll tell you my long story. After agonizing over my choice, I called my lumber yard to finalize my order, and the salesman said, "Do you want the square top or the arch top?" Since I knew I did not want the square top, I said, "the arch top, please" and I anxiously awaited their delivery.

When they arrived, they were not the arch top I had seen in another showroom and I refused to allow the driver to take them off the truck. After what seemed like hours of arguing with the salesman, who told me Masonite didn't make any other arch top door, I drove to another lumberyard, where I saw the door I wanted and thought I was getting, but it is called a Roman arch. The salesman said it wasn't his mistake and offered me $500 off if I took the doors on the truck.

I refused -- I had spent about $100K with this particular vendor, and when he told me I had 2 choices for the door, I assumed that arch top meant not the square top, and not that there were several arch top options from which to choose. It took another 2 weeks to re-order, but I got what I wanted and I'm glad I stood my ground.

Oh, and 2 weeks after installation, my project manager finally noticed that the hole for the strike plate on one of the jambs had been pre-drilled by the factory about 4" higher than where it was supposed to be. See me turning blue? That's me waiting for someone/anyone to come back and patch it.

Somehow, this is no one's fault.

Sigh.

So I guess I'll have to get around to filling it myself with wood fill. Or something.

Anyway, triple check the direction of your door swings before ordering, and when they arrive, double check that everything has been pre-bored in a way that makes sense.

Good luck!!


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Lolab,
I posted yesterday, but something ate it.

Anyway, after reading your last post, I feel I should drive or fly to your house with chocolate, or send you a gift certificate for a massage. I understand completely how upsetting some aspects of building or remodeling can be. I appreciate you weighing in on everything and providing information, despite reawakening memories that are less than pleasant!


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Eliza etc -- aren't you sweet! I guess I should have ended by saying that now that it's all over, I absolutely LOVE my home and am very happy with most of the choices I made and how things turned out. Of course, there are still some raw nerves that, once poked, cause me to remember some extremely unpleasant moments.

My mom told me after I moved in that I had been an absolute beast for weeks (that is not the word she used, but hers started with a B, too).

Some of the many things I learned during the process, which may be helpful to you:

1) be there as much as possible to keep an eye on things
2) don't assume anything
3) question everything that doesn't look right and don't accept answers that don't make sense
4) get EVERYTHING in writing, especially if it's something someone will be blamed for if it isn't done
5) check, double-check and re-check EVERYTHING before you order it
6) start working on your paint palette NOW, so the painter isn't standing there with a roller in his hand while you agonize over what shade of whatever.
7) ditto light fixtures (still waiting for my DR chandy)
8) be flexible when things don't go according to plan, but know which items you absolutely MUST have and do not compromise on those.
9) check out Emtek's crystal egg-shaped doorknobs - a little pricey (try Simpson's Hardware online), but hands down, one of the nicest elements in my home, and one that I appreciate every time I open a door.

It's all worth it in the end.

Would I do it again? Ask me in a year or so.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Lolab, love crystal knobs. Tried to find the one you are talking about. Is it one of these and will you share a picture of yours?

Thanks!

Here is a link that might be useful: Knobs


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

"love crystal knobs"

Renovator's Supply and Van Dykes have ones just like grandma's house had.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

lolab, sounds like you read the book "What Your Contractor Can't Tell You". Your advice is excellent and follows exactly what the author advises. I probably comment about this book too often on this forum, but following the advice in the book would prevent so many of the problems that people describe in this forum.
Great info about doors - thanks!


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Lolab, awesome information! I'm working on it! Red and brick, thanks for the links!

Nanj, thanks for your comment, I'll check it out.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Hey red_lover (I'm not even gonna ask . . . . )

Mine are the Hampton knob with the #8 Rosette in ORB. I took some pics for you but SOMEONE borrowed my camera/computer cords that I need to post them online, and didn't put them back.

When he gets home from school, I will wring their location from him and try to post them later.

I love the little bit of sparkle they provide, yet I find them a little more modern than the cut crystal ones I think brickeyee is referring to. They are exactly the right size for the palm of my hand and are so smooth and hefty feeling (I told you I love them!)

A friend asked whether they get smudgy from hand/finger prints and I have to say, they do not.


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Those knobs are beautiful! This address doesn't show it in ORB, but I can imagine how it looks!

http://www.barefootandcompany.com/content/products/door-hardware/knobs/emtek/Hampton Knob, no. 8 Rosette.jpg


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Lolab-- my moniker is just because I love red--honest!

Love your knob, and would love to still see pics when you get a chance. Thanks. I know-- darned kids!


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RE: Help!! Door thickness!!!

Brickeyee--good sites. And they are certainly cheaper. Which site is better?


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