Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
n123_gw

CertainTeed lap siding looseness/wavy

n123
10 years ago

Hi,

Our GC is installing 5 1/5" CertainTeed smooth lap siding on our 1920 home but the boards seem to be much looser than I would have expected. Most boards, you can push on the bottom of them and they will have 1-2mm of movement (bounce). It is a blind nailing installation with the normal 4" exposure. Is this amount of movement normal?

The sub tells me that it is because my house is old and the existing conditions don't allow the boards to lay flat. After looking closely at how they are installing the boards, I actually believe this is due to their installation method. They are driving the nails at around 1/2", rather than the recommended 1" nail line and they are often times over driving the nail and it ends up being sunk, rather than proud to the surface per the CT install spec. They continue to insist they are doing it correctly and that they have been doing it this way for years, "without problems".

In addition to the looseness, parts of the siding are also "wavy". I also think this is due to over-driving the nail and forcing the siding tight to the original frame rather than sitting straight on the OSB layer and letting it buffer out irregularities.

Has anyone installed CT or Hardie on an old frame with new sheathing? Do your boards sit flat?

I'm hoping someone may be able to offer their results on a similar application, right now it is a computer nerd (me) vs a bunch of construction guys.

Picture attached showing the nail line, this board was removed for an alternate reason.

Thanks!

This post was edited by n123 on Thu, Sep 19, 13 at 8:16

Comments (4)

  • millworkman
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not certain about the exact reasons but if there is any issues with the product and it is not install 100% to the letter of the instruction CT will not warranty the product period. So regardless of the result that in of itself is reason to have it installed by the book. And I will tell you without even seeing the end result or pictures that most of your issues are due to the method in installation. If it were my house they would not install any more boards period until the previous boards were removed and installed properly.

  • millworkman
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    dam duplicate posts

    This post was edited by millworkman on Thu, Sep 19, 13 at 10:11

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think that it should not be a case of you vs. them -it is just what the specs say. It does not matter how many years they have gotten away with installing it incorrectly.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I suggest you contact Certainteed by telephone - because you need a quick answer - and describe exactly what you are seeing and ask for their help. Ask them whether the builder's installation method meets their warranty standards. (If it is not according to CT specs, I can tell you that they are going to say "No" but you need for them to then talk to your builder and tell him that it does not meet their warranty standards. Once you've got Certainteed on your side, it'll be a lot easier to insist that your builder start over and reinstall the siding so that it DOES meet CT's warranty standards.

    I had a similar issue with my builder only it was over his use of Tyvek. His crew was not installing it correctly. Although I'm not a builder, I've looked at a lot of houses in the process of being built and the installation did not look right to me from the get-go. So, like you, I looked up the manufacturer's installation specifications.

    Made a copy and gave it to my builder along with a copy of Dupont's Tyvek warranty which very clearly stated that failure to install Tyvek according to installation specifications voided all warranties. Builder didn't even want to look at the documents, insisting that he was a professional and knew what he was doing.

    At that point I told my builder - either you read these documents right now, in my presence, or we cancel the contract immediately and you can sue me to try and get paid. Even after reading the installation specs, my builder STILL tried to tell me that his guys "have been doing it this way for years with no problems" and "there is more than one way to install Tyvek correctly" and "We're professionals and you're not, so you need to butt out let us do out jobs...."

    That's when I called Dupont for help and found out that they actually keep "Tyvek Installation Specialists" stationed all around the country for the specific purpose of dealing with situations like mine. The Tyvek specialist was at my house at 8AM the next morning and was shaking his head as he walked onto the property. First words out of his mouth were "THIS WILL NOT DO!" Needless to say, my builder found it a lot harder to try and argue with him than he did with me. LOL! And the Tyvek Specialist's trip did not cost me a penny.

    Dupont told me that the reason they have the Tyvek Installation Specialists is because so many builders misuse their product that it has been giving the product a bad name and costing Dupont $$$$ to defend lawsuits by homeowners where the product was not installed properly in the first place.

    Just because someone has been doing something in a certain way for years does NOT mean it is right. Most construction people learn their trades from other construction people. And unfortunately, the results of many bad building practices often do not become apparent until the people who did the hands-on work are long gone.

    Certainteed may not have siding-installation specialist available right in your area like Dupont does with Tyvek. But they probably do have someone on their staff who can look at photos you send them and tell you - and more importantly - your builder, whether his installation is up to snuff or not.

    I think Certainteed is a reputable company and, if so, while they may be able to disclaim the warranty due to your builder's bad practices - and probably will if it comes to that; they have to be aware that if you have a problem down the road with your siding, you will ultimately wind up bad-mouthing Certainteed as much or more than you will your builder. Heck, your builder l probably be out of business by then anyway! But, if Certainteed can help you get him to install the product right so that it does not fail, you'll be singing Certainteed's praises for years to come.

    Trust me, whenever anybody mentions a Dupont product anymore, I tell my Dupont Tyvek story. And given a choice between a Dupont product of any kind and a competitor's product, I now choose Dupont because I have reason to trust the company.

    Good luck.

0