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Advice on Bathroom Layout

stlblufan
10 years ago

We're stuck in the process of designing our rental unit bathrooms.

The current layout (see below) has the walk-in closet entrance off the main/master bathroom (bathroom on the right). Previously we had a door from the outside, but it cut into the wall where presumably a dresser would go. Since the bed would cover the windows on the window wall, the bed really needs to go where its placed now.

What are your thoughts on a walk-in closet entrance in the bathroom? Do you think renters would think it's weird? Any other way to configure the doors so that it doesn't seem like a mess of doors (main door, closet door, shower door) in the bathroom?

Thanks!!

Comments (29)

  • geller
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What happens if someone needs to/from the closet with a handful of laundry/drycleaning and someone is using the loo? Yes, I think it's wierd.

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In this case I would want the closet entrance in the bedroom, I think. I would flip the hanging so the door could go right in the corner.

    How many bedrooms are in the layout?

    I think two sinks in such a short vanity in the master is not going to work, I think one sink, offset to one side with counter space and a mirror over the entire vanity would be more efficient.

    This post was edited by palimpsest on Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 16:18

  • annkh_nd
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would also want to closet door in the bedroom, not the bathroom.

    I know it increases your plumbing run, but I would put the closet on the left, bathroom on the outside wall, so you could put in a window. That also increases the wall space between closet and bathroom doors.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You didn't ask but I also very much dislike the bathroom that opens directly into the kitchen. UGH! Imagine someone making a stink in there and then opening the door while you're in the midst of getting a meal ready to go on the table.

    I lived in a quite a number of apartments as a young adult - some of them pretty awful as I didn't have much money while going to college - but there is no way that I would ever have rented an apartment with that set up... no matter how nice it was otherwise nor how cheap the rent.

    Don't know what options, if any, you have to make changes but thought you ought to know that at least some potential renters are likely to feel as I do....

  • renovator8
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why can't the walk-in closet door be in the lower right corner of the bedroom and the dresser aligned with the bed so a TV can sit on it?

    Do people really use lavatories that close together especially when there is another bathroom close by?

  • mrspete
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The two sinks in the master bath are -- if I'm figuring the numbers right -- in a vanity that's about 3'5". No way that'll support two sinks. It's not even a generously sized space for one sink.

    The sink in the other bath is also under-sized.

    Overall, you don't seem to have enough square footage in the bathrooms. Could this be combined into a jack-and-jill, which would save space by having only one tub in the middle portion?

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the bathroom size is fine for an apartment. The standard bath "template" for years was 5 x7 or 5.5 x 7 depending on the door position. These are both bigger than that, and I wouldn't waste square footage on making them bigger, nor would I only have one. I lived for ten years with only one bath, and never stopped wishing I had another one.

    The double vanity doesn't work at all though. 60 long is minimum but tight for two sinks. But in the hall bath, if that's a wall hung sink, it will work, but it needs to be 4" from the wall to the edge, and 12"-15" on center from the wall really. I am getting ready to install 13" x13" wall hung sink in such a bath. My recommendation would be to put a narrow, counter height shelf right over the toilet tank to compensate for no counter space in that bath.

    (There is another way to lay out that bathroom and get a counter in it. but I am not going to suggest it because it is adjacent to the kitchen)

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know how much of the interior exists, but what If you flipped the hall bath so the door was across from the wall next to the fridge rather than facing down the kitchen aisle?

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think a few things are odd. Do you need both the reach in and walk in? If you have just the walk in then there's plenty of wall space.

    Not only is the bath open to the kitchen unpleasant, but it's weird that its a full bath instead of a powder room.

    If you move the closet door and put the pot on the bedroom wall then you can enlarge the vanity and the two sinks will fit.

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If it's a single bedroom, yes, two full baths are a bit much. But if it's two bedrooms, or a vacation rental with flexible sleeping, you don't want everyone going through the bedroom to take their showers. People who rent have belongings too, I would not eliminate storage.

  • stlblufan
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone! This has been so helpful - even more so than the architect, contractor and designer who's seen these plans!

    Just to answer a few questions and provide some more details. Below is the full layout - there are two bedrooms. Since this will be a rental, it's likely it could be two individuals (non-couple), so two full bathrooms is needed.

    I think the bathroom walk-in is a resounding "no", so we'll definitely need to move that door.

    For the master bathroom, we were thinking of a 48" (it's drawn to 51" now) vanity with one long sink and potentially two faucets, with counter room on either side. Would that mediate some of the concerns of size? Also, good point about the smaller bathroom - it was intended to fit a 30" vanity, but that space is not 30" as drawn (probably closer to 24").

    bevangel - we totally agree with you! Sadly, in city apartments, bathrooms that lead to the kitchen or in other odd spaces are fairly common given the inherent narrow style of row homes.

    Totally open to ideas on how else it could be arranged! The only thing that can't move is the kitchen, due to venting and plumbing in the upper unit and the windows. Also, the mechanicals/meters need to be accessible.

  • renovator8
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The door to the bedroom seems smaller than the other doors.

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Could the water heater go in the walk-in closet and the entry to the hall bath reworked?

  • bird_lover6
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If your market includes two singles, that bathroom in the kitchen is NOT going to attract them. Each bedroom should have it's own bath nearby; otherwise, you will lose a lot of potential renters. And that tiny closet in the second bedroom is going to be a huge turn off, as well.

    Good luck!

  • annkh_nd
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Put a standard door on the second bedroom, and put a longer closet on the door wall.

    Rework bath #2/wd/wh so the bathroom door does not open to the kitchen - replacing the tub with a shower might help. WD can open to the kitchen; WH might be in the bathroom.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm confused. What are all the things in the closets in the entry foyer? Although it is hard to read on the posted image, besides the meters, it looks like one says "water tank", the next says "boiler", and the final one says HVAC. What kind of heating/AC system will you have? It just seems like you have an awful lot of mechanicals for a tiny little apartment. As far as I know, one HVAC unit and one water heater ought to be sufficient for an apartment...but maybe you're using some kind of a system that I never heard about.

    Will wait to comment further until I understand the need for the boiler AND water tank.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Also, will the living room/kitchen space have NO windows? Don't building codes require at least one window in a living room? (Someone who really knows the codes, please chime in.) Or, are you allowed to get away with not having a window by having those "bypass doors on the bedroom"?

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Or, are you allowed to get away with not having a window by having those "bypass doors on the bedroom"

    This is how I've seen it managed in Manhattan.

    It's hard for us to say what will be a turn-off or not without knowing where this apartment actually is. It may be Much better than the typical 2 BR rental in the area, I know someone who lived in Manhattan whose toilet was out in the hall. It was theirs only, they had the only key, but it was not directly attached to the apartment. The only shower was in the kitchen, This was after the year 2000, not in the dark ages.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm pretty sure Manhatten is a rule unto itself when it comes to living spaces. LOL!

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm also confused..there seems to be a boiler and a hot water tank (can you go tankless and save space?) and an HVAC unit, and what then are these split units in the windows and what is the round thing behind the wd? There does seem to be a lot of mechanicals.

    And BR2 seems to lack a wall and door but some sort of sliding arrangement instead. And what is that box in BR2 across from the bed and next to the closet?

    I'm thinking tub/shower combo in master bath and swap with the pot and maybe have room to sneak the w/d in there. Then move the other bath to be closer to the other bedroom and shrink it with just a shower. That way the main living space has a definite dining area next to the kitchen as well as a living area.

  • stlblufan
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes -- this is a Manhattan brownstone, so it is the bottom floor of a four-story building (we will be occupying the other three floors). There are (attached) buildings to either side, thus no windows on either side. The building code requires that a bedroom have a window, but does not require any in any other part of the apartment.

    The mechanicals for most of the building are in the entryway to the apartment (there are some additional condenser units on the roof), and the water heater will not be there (it was originally included so that the apartment would be truly separate from the main building, but we have decided to have it share hot water from the boiler). The scale may not have come through, but this is an approximately 1200sf apartment, which is quite large in Manhattan, so the mechanicals taking up a part of the entrance shouldn't be that big of a deal.

    Bedroom 2 (maybe an office?) does have sliding doors with frosted glass, the idea being to allow some light to get in to the living area. The "boxed" area in that bedroom was a chimney breast that has been removed.

    Hope that helps! Thanks everyone for your input.

    This post was edited by stlblufan on Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 18:39

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It might be nice to leave the mantle in the office/bedroom, even if the opening is blocked up. The tub/shower- in -the -kitchen apartment I stayed in was otherwise charming because it had some vestiges of old details.

    I would rework the second bath door so it was turned away from the kitchen if you have the opportunity.

    I think the fact that this has it's own W/D makes it an exceptional apartment in and of itself for Manhattan. I've never known anyone to have that, ever.

  • cpate
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Having lived in Manhatten for a while right out of college, I know apartments there are tiny and expensive... and very often advertized as being a lot bigger than they actually are. So I'm going to chime in here to ask how calculate that this is an "approximately 1200 sq ft apartment"?

    At it's widest point the apartment is 20.25 ft wide from wall to wall. And a good share of the apartment is actually narrower than 20.25 ft due to the thicker walls along the kitchen and master bedroom and along both bathrooms. Adding together all the dimensions shown along the sides (including adding in 4" for the gaps between measurements shown) I get 54 feet for the entire length. 20.25 x 54 = 1093.5 sq ft.

    Thus, if the ENTIRE space were gutted of all interior walls, the available floor space would actually be something LESS THAN 1093.5 sq ft.

    Plus, in my opinion at least, the entry area can NOT really be counted as a part of the apartment. Since the mechanicals actually serve the house upstairs which means that you, as landlord, must have access to them at all times, the apartment residents will not have the right to the exclusive use and enjoyment of the entry foyer anymore than they have the right to the exclusive use and enjoyment of the sidewalk leading up to the brownstone. The space to which they will have the right to exclusive use and enjoyment starts at the interior door leading into their living room.

    So, to be fair, in calculating the size of the apartment, one really ought o subtract off the approximately 6' x 14' area that the entry and mechanical's closets take up. That's 84 sq ft. So, that brings the apartment size down to something less than 1009.5 sq ft....and that's including all the space taken up by interior walls.

    (I suppose that IF the HVAC unit only serves this one apartment, then maybe that HVAC closet space could also be counted as part of the apartment. But if the HVAC serves both this apartment and the upstairs, then even that can't really be counted. If added in tho, that would only add about 10 sq ft.)

    So unless I'm overlooking something, like maybe a 10x15 storage room or garage space that the renters will have the exclusive use of, then I personally think that advertizing this at an "approximately 1200 sq ft apartment" would be fraudulent.

    Can't say that I ever found any landlord in NYC that balked at committing fraud tho so I guess you might as well go ahead and call it 1200 sq ft and fit in nicely with the rest of them.

  • palimpsest
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Is there any point to your post other than being snarky? I am sure the OP said "approximately" based upon the footprint of the building which is quite common here in RE since the houses are built to the lot lines.

    And you misspelled Manhattan, which reduces your post's credibility in my opinion (since you actually lived there)-- if I want to be snarky in response.

    This post was edited by palimpsest on Sat, Aug 3, 13 at 11:16

  • stlblufan
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @cpate you're right, my "approximately" was just referencing the approximate dimensions of the building, which should be around 20x60 once the extension is completed (it's approximately 20x40 right now). i was just trying to answer general questions about the layout and to give some perspective. no ill will or fraud intended!

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cpate's tone may have been a bit snarky but his calculation of the available floor space does help me understand WHY I've been having fits trying to arrange OP's desired rooms into the available space and move the second bathroom next to the front bedroom. And why there didn't seem to be any space available for a decent sized closet for the front bedroom. I can't see the dimensions so was just trying to move things around using cut and paste in Paint and another 100 to 150 sq ft might have make all the difference. LOL!

    Okay, given that the mechanicals serve the upstairs living space and have to remain where they are; and given the actual square footage of the apartment, and that you've decided the apartment can share hot water from the boiler; here is the best redesign I've been able to come up with....


    This moves the doorway to the second bath away from the kitchen and tucks the toilet down a hallway and around a corner so it isn't visible from the front door or from the living room area. Note that if the bathroom door were left standing open, guests would still be able to see the tub from a small portion of the living room are but a pretty shower curtain would make that not too objectionable. And not being able to see the toilet itself give the bathroom a much greater sense of privacy.

    Because of how narrow the little hallway will be, it might be best to simply use a pretty curtain to hide the washer/dryer. For now I've shown a regular door but honestly, I'm not sure it would be possible to move the washer and dryer into the closet and hook them up if there is a door. Would be a good idea to check with whoever has to install the washer/dryer before putting up a door. If you have room for a door on the W/D closet, that door would have to be kept closed except when someone was actually loading the washer or dryer to avoid blocking the bathroom. I know it is not ideal to have such door conflicts but...

    I also rearranged the back bath, the walk-in closet, and the door to the back bedroom in order to make the walk-in closet accessible from the hallway. I think having it there makes more sense if you want to be able to rent the apartment to room-mates. The reason is that the front bedroom's only closet is very very small. (in fact, while I can't quite read the dimensions, it may not even be drawn 24" deep inside and, if not, you need to make it a bit deeper. Clothing needs 24 inches - wall to wall.) Assuming that the closet IS actually deep enough, it still is only 4 ft wide. Meanwhile the back bedroom has a reach-in closet that is more than twice as wide, plus (as originally drawn) it would also have a second walk-in closet.

    In a room-mate rental situation, that would be pretty unfair and the room-mate with the back bedroom would probably HAVE to agree to share part of his/her closet space.

    But, with the walk-in closet accessible from the hallway, the room mate taking the front bedroom COULD be assigned part or all of the the walk-in closet to even out the storage space. This might not be ideal but it would be better than having one room-mate have almost no closet space at all while the other has tons of storage.

    And, if the apartment is rented to a couple who share the back bedroom and use the front room as an office, it would be not really be a problem for one of them to keep their clothes in the closet accessed from the hall. Or, they might decide to use the walk-in closet as a storage pantry.

    Notice also that I made the vanity in the back bathroom a bit smaller so that the walk-in closet could be bigger. Where space is tight, I would not use a vanity larger than 36 inches wide. That plus a storage cabinet over the toilet should give space enough for two people to store all their bath stuff.

    Swapping the bath and walk-in closet also means that, if you want to, you can put a window into the back bathroom which would be really nice. And if you move the door down as shown, there should still be room for a small (3 ft wide) chest-of-drawers on the wall between the bedroom door and the bathroom door without having to make one of the doors really narrow.

    I don't know about using frosted glass doors on the front bedroom/office. I think that might make it hard to sleep in the front bedroom if one's room-mate had lights on in the kitchen and/or living area at night. Maybe if there were roller shades on the frosted glass that the room mate could roll down at night.

    If I were renting, I'd also be concerned about having the head of my bed up against the wall with the boiler right on the other side. Don't those things make quite a bit of noise? It might be better to go ahead and tear out that "chimney breast" so that the head of the bed could go up there instead.

    Given that NY has real winters with lots of snow and rain, and that I understand people in Manhattan mostly walk or take public transportation to get around, I think I would want a closet near the front door to store galoshes, hats, gloves, coats, umbrellas, etc. So I sketched one in. It does make the living room a bit smaller but, so long as meals tend to be eaten at the bar so that you don't really need a dining table, the living room is still a good size. Or, you could cut out the entry closet if you prefer.

    Or, thinking about it now that I've already uploaded my image to Photobucket; it might actually be better to move the W/D out to take up 1/2 of the entry closet and use the space where I show the W/D as a linen and broom closet. Easier to get the W/D in and hooked up... but you would have to run plumbing lines further.

    At least this maybe gives you some ideas. Good luck with your project.

  • kirkhall
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bevangel's design also allows that WIC to possibly be used as "pantry"/extra storage since it is easily accessible to the kitchen and baths.

  • stlblufan
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @bevangel thank you! that's much better than anything we've come up with.

  • stlblufan
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks so much bevangel! This was really helpful!

    EDIT: sorry for the sort-of double post -- this is what happens when spouses use the same account :)

    This post was edited by stlblufan on Mon, Aug 5, 13 at 14:42