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dadereni

Advanced framing - other considerations

dadereni
10 years ago

The energy performance and reduced framing resulting from advanced framing techniques has been much discussed. Many times on this forum, so with this post I'm not looking for a rehash of those arguments.

I'm aware of what the code requires, to provide a safe and sound house with satisfactory occupant comfort. But, if an owner is interested in advanced framing for energy performance and reduced materials, I'm inclined to compensate with better grade lumber, thicker than required wallboards/subfloor, and plywood sheathing over the entire exterior, to mitigate the risk ending up with a house that feels cheap or insubstantial...when people walk through it or view it, or whenever the winds pick up.

SO:
To those of you who have designed, built, or lived in houses framed both ways (standard, advanced), was advanced framing worth it from the perspective of:

Getting competitive bids and experienced tradespeople
Any fees for extra engineering design services to prepare construction documents
Upfront, overall construction cost
Solid feeling floors
Straight interior wall finishes
Straight exterior siding
Other non "green" considerations

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

Comments (4)

  • Brian_Knight
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Its kind of tough to define the level of advanced framing for any given project. Insulated headers, two stud corners and eliminating useless jack studs are easy. Going to 2' spacing with single top plates can be quite challenging.

    Even with a high level of advanced framing, you are only reducing typical thermal bridging from around 25% to 18%. Not a big enough drop to take it to a high level in my opinion. Insulative sheathing on the other hand can have a much bigger effect on the R value part of the performance equation.

    Eliminating thermal bridging should be a major goal for those building homes and interested in reducing monthly energy/environmental costs. However, focusing on blower door test results is much more likely to reduce energy costs than advanced framing. Air sealing is cheap compared to insulation and mechanical systems but has a much bigger effect on energy costs, durability, comfort, and reducing building safety dangers like backdrafting combustion appliances, garage fumes and soil gases.

    Weve always used pre-cast concrete panels for basements and SIPS for above grade walls as a cost-competitive alternative to insulative sheathing mainly due to the reduced labor costs. On one of our upcoming homes we will be trying the new ZIP+R sheathing product for the walls. I think it will be a game changer for us.

  • User
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    deleted

    This post was edited by Renovator8 on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 20:11

  • energy_rater_la
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    in my area, it is difficult to get frame carpenters
    to to optimum value framing.
    laying out studs 16"oc is standard, too much
    'thinking' to change to 24" oc.
    roof rafters have to fall directly on wall studs..
    and most can't wrap their heads around it.

    I've had more success in regular stick frame
    with foam sheathing on the exterior of walls.
    properly nailed, caulked & seams taped.
    behind brick or furred out walls for siding
    we use a foil faced foam sheathing.
    behing stucco t&g.

    and I have to say, in all fairness, that sometimes
    it is difficult to get framers to do the foam sheathing
    install properly. it all depends on the builder & if he
    is willing to do more than code dictates.
    code being the least you can legally build to,
    but better building practices being the goal.

    I like double top plates for higher insulation
    values at edges of roof when doing insulation
    on attic floor.

    most in my area opt to foam insulate the roofline
    to put ductwork & equipment in semi conditioned space.
    while this is a more costly insulation, it covers
    many building failures.
    and studies have shown that unvented attics withstand
    hurricane forces much better than vented attics.
    some of the most common building failures include:
    IC instead of ICAT recessed lights
    oversized cuts for supply boxes, stove vents & bath fans.
    thermal bypasses like shower units & fireplaces left
    open in attic.

    IMO one of the best efficiency upgrades
    is to design the house with
    ducts/equip inside the living space.
    also invest in mid range
    efficiency hvac equipment, mastic seal of duct system
    and air sealing of house.

    the latter is achieved more often than the former.
    folks just don't understand the design of fur downs
    for a/c ducts & designers & architects fail us in
    not incorperating this in design of homes.

    air sealing often falls to the homeowner to make sure
    it is done, or to diy.

    load calcs for hvac sizing, duct design & sizing are all
    things that should be done prior to start of build.
    info for build ...shgc & uvalues of windows, insulation
    R-values, orientation, size of overhang should all be
    provided for these calcs.
    one thing that makes a big difference in sizing is the
    tightness of the house. load calcs give 3 choices.
    very leaky, average & tight..it makes a big difference
    in sizing for a leaky house to a tight house.

    if you nail down your details now, and get everyone
    on the same page, you'll have a better chance at
    an efficient house.

    myself like the two posters above have experience
    with numerous builds. efficiency is formost in the
    projects we are involved with, not an afterthought.
    glad to see that you are being proactive with your
    build.

    solid sheated plywood or osb on exterior of house
    (or interior) makes for a stronger structure. its pretty
    common in my hurricane area. as with adding foam
    sheathing, door & windows have to be adjusted for
    this thicker wall.

    where are you located?

    best of luck.

  • PRO
    Epiarch Designs
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have done both, but actually prefer a modified version of it. A 2x6 wall at 24" oc is no weaker than a 2x4 @ 16" oc.
    At the end of the day, I have found if you do the details how they show them using metal header brackets to reduce framing, the cost of these are more than a stud, not mention longer time for install. My details typically include an insulated box header, king and jack studs as normal, double top plate and 24" oc 2x6. With a double top plate, they can place trusses where needed. It also gives more wood to anchor the truss hurricane clip into. My current home is ICF for hte house, but 2x6 "ove" for the garage walls. My fathers place we built last year we used 2x4 for the garage. My walls, at 24" are stronger than his are. They both have 1/2" osb on them.
    Of course air sealing and thermal bridge reducing is a higher issue to me than 16" vs 24". As others have stated, go with exterior foam and your gain in thermal bridge reduction will be a lot higher. A wall assembly I like to use for a heating climate includes: 1/2" air tight drywall, little to no can lighting (yes!!! you can light a house without cans!!! better infact!) not even the so called air tight ones, blown in dense packed insulation in the walls (open cell spray foam if you feel like spending even more), 2x6 24" framing as said above, 1/2" ZIP sheathing, seams taped per install requirements (this places your air barrier on the exterior of your wall), 1.5-2" of XPS foam, 3/4" furring strips for air cavity, and cladding of choice. This is a proven and high performing wall system. You could take it to the next step and do double stud wall framing and eliminate the exterior foam, but you use interior floor space up. Of course do not forget about the basement or concrete slab (place 2" XPS there) and the roof. Air tight ceiling (I perfer to have them install drywall as normal and then spray foam an "attic seal" which is just foam around electrical penetrations, plumbing and tops of walls) and shoot an r60+ in the attic space.
    Check with local power and heating companies. You may be able to get special rebates for building a higher performing house than code min. In our area we get about $6k back in rebates for building 5% above Energy Star 3.0. That will cover all or more of the building upgrades described above.