I'm too ornery to fit in with any kind of homeowner's association, so right there, #1 is out of the running. I've been told there can be a lot of good things about an HOA, but IMO judging landscaping isn't among them. I personally don't want anyone telling me what I can and can't do with property *I* paid for.

#2 has the same (apparently desired) school district, elbow space, and no one leaning on your shoulder to say what you can and can't do with your own property. No trees is both a negative and a positive -- no shade right now, but you can plant what you like, where you like! The lack of a cul de sac is of minor importance in my book. I never (NEVER) let my kids play any place a car/truck would consider appropriate for traveling (and my neighborhood does not have sidewalks, etc). With a couple acres to play around, you might be surprised how much there is for a kid to do that does not involve being on the street.

Obviously, IMO, there's no choice because #2 is so much better.

agreed, i would go with #2 as well.

you sound like you would not fit in with a HOA. like me, you probably feel you have the right to do with your property as you please.

on top of the HOA, the city sewer/water also mean CITY taxes. around here that means 2x the county rate for the home, auto tags, etc.

it is a little more grass to cut, but also means more area for the kids to play. they can ride their bikes in the yard without having to get onthe street.

Only you can decide that. City sewer and water are great things. Knowing how the land around you will be used is a great thing. What is the zoning of the land around the country acreage? Is there any guarantee that it won't be used in the future as an industrial park, quarry, hog farming operation, bunker silos, manure pit, etc? I've lived in the country for over 20 years. Our first house was in a country subdivision and the view from our house couldn't change. Our current house is in a country subdivision too, but it is on the edge of the subdivision and our view is similar to the view from you country lot except that we are on top of a hill so we see miles and miles of farm land--our view will change when the use of the farm land changes. OUr town has an agreement with the neighboring city that there won't be any development in the land encompassing our view for the next 20 years, which is all we need. HOwever, who knows what will happen when the 20 years is up and even with the no development agreement there are still lots of agricultural uses that can could change our view. Just down the road from us there are 3 nices houses that had a view of open farmland when they were built 25 years ago but which know have a view of bunker silos, and all the tractors/end loaders that go into the silos, for the dairy operation (that probably only milked 100 cows when the houses were built but now milks over 1,000 cows) that is just down the street from the houses. Or you could end up with a pole shed across the street from you, or a gravel pit, or a pig farm (which really had a unique odor), or . . . . A 4 lot island of development in the middle of agricultural land has a lot of risks associated with it IMO. One the houses that now looks at the bunker silos was put up for sale about 3 years ago--it was on the market for over a year and was finally purchased by the farmer who owns the bunker silos for a very good price to house his farm workers.

I think it really is up to you :). Personally I want to have ducks and I doubt that would be allowed on the allotment. Also I don't like people telling me what my house can look like or how many pets I can have so I personally could never go for the allotment.

There was a pretty big post not long ago about country vs city life and raising kids. Most I think would opt for the land, space and country living. Me...I would go stir crazy. I love having close neighbors, sidwalks, close proximity to shopping etc. This is just too personal for anyone to decide but you and what feels comfortable for your family. Good luck with your decision. Amish country...where? I'm orginally from Iowa

Here is a link that might be useful: Country vs City and raising kids

How far apart are the two choices? If they are in the same school district aren't they fairly close? Is one really "city" and the other "country?"

I'd probably go with the smaller lot, for fear of winding up living next door to a 7-11. If you were talking .3 acres vs. 3.0 acres I might feel differently. But I don't think at 1.25 v. 2.3 your utilization of the property will be all that different.

Things to consider. What restrictions, if any, are on the neighboring properties? Vacant land around you has a habit of being built on. What is the zoning of the neighborhood? What does the state/county/city master plan say about the future? Could that country road turn into a major thoroughfare?

Has a recent survey been done on the country lot? If not, plan on having one done with a 'to your satisfaction' contingency. Never buy rural property without a survey. Find out if the mineral rights go with the property and if there are any easements. The survey should reveal any easements.

2.3 acres isn't big enough to farm, but it's big enough to be a chore to mow.

Have you considered flooding? Subdivision developments tend to be graded properly. Plain old rural land usually isn't graded at all. Where does runoff go now? Absent an obvious high spot to locate the house, you should be very careful siting a home.

Where are the neighbors' wells and septic? Their wells and septics may limit where you can put your well and septic, not to mention the house. While these same concerns can occur in subdivision development, they usually have been worked out by the developer ahead of time. You probably won't have a problem with 2.3 acres, but you should check, especially if you are planning to build the house in a specific location.

What utilities are available? If high speed internet matters to you, is it available?

Lastly, go knock on the doors of those other houses and ask the residents about living there. You'll be amazed at what people will tell you. Sometimes it can save you from making a big mistake, and sometimes it can set your mind at ease.

You will find a pretty detailed discussion of this topic in the other thread.

For me it's a no-brainer with this caveat- 2.3 acres is not nearly enough really. It's enough to increased your work load but not enough to insure your privacy/view/country feeling. Is a larger acreage a possibility?

I am absolutely not a subdivision person but understand the logic of having some idea what your immediate surroundings can and can't become.

We live in the middle of 65 acres in an area in which we have agricultural zoning- you have to have at least 4 acres to build a house. Still I wish we lived in the middle of 650 acres - even better would be 6500. I really like my privacy and would rather not see another human structure from my home. SOme people hate that though.... as for having kids to play with, the other thread addresses that in depth.

Good Luck - I live in the #1 Amish state in the US....are you a neighbor? GO BUCKS!

Well the city lot, is a very "small" city. Its really what I would call an allotment in the country. Looking out the front of the lot is a nice view for miles. I just dont know how often I'll be looking out the front, I spend most of my time in the back. The back view would just be a backyard.

The two lots are within 5-10 minutes of eachother.

The 2.33 acres is kind of a rectangle with 175 ft of frontage going back about 575 ft. I just got a copy of the restrictions. Residential or agricultural uses only. You can raise livestock, but no swine. No "concentrated animal feeding facility" or a "concentrated animal feeding operation". No buildings with metal siding. No industrial, commercial or manufacturing activity. No mobile, manufactured, basement or steel framed homes. Thats pretty much it.

Ive never had a septic system, so that kind of freaks me out a little. Not sure what to expect there. I grew up on well water, so that Im ok with. We would have no direct neighbors at first, Im sure we will be the first to build. There are a couple houses across the street and then the farm starts one lot over from us, probably 400 ft away.

Im not a big "rule" person, so the allotment is kind of scary. Im sure we will break the 2 pets rule. Wish I could have a fence b/c we would like to get a dog. Its also kind of an upscale neighborhood for that area. Im more of a laid back person and not sure if I would feel like my house had to be perfect all of the time or they wouldnt like me or something. Im not saying Im a slob, I just dont want to be judged and I feel with an HOA you are always kind of being judged. Gotta fit in with the Jones's. I dont know, just rambling...

ponydoc - We may be neighbors. NE Ohio area ;)

The way your post reads, looks like you prefer #2.
I would not make a decision based on this statement:

"I love the horse & buggies clippity clopping right down our street"

Why?
Because your house probably will be a little bit far from the street in that bigger lot and most likely you will not be able to hear them anyway. Placing the house near to the street in the big lot does not seem right.

And if I were in that dilemma I'd select #1.

-I prefer city water and sewer
-Did I say I prefer city water and sewer?

-For resale value: it is easier to resale a house in a subdivision. You never know when you will need to sell a house.

-Keeping the lawn very nice and the landscape in general, is a lot easier in the smaller lot - which is not small at all.

-Covenants are there to protect your investment

-In the country there might be snakes wich I fear.

-I like to have neighbors

-I do not have kids but yours would love to play with other kids

-If you like the Amish buggies you will be able to see them almost everyday anyway

-I do not like smellings - at least not the king that you will have. Wind sometimes changes direction. How can you be so sure that you would not have a pig farm next to you?

-If lot #2 does not have trees and lot #1 has a tree line in the back - I prefer the tree line.

...

Good luck with your selection.

Do everything you can to buy TWO of the country lots. Sell the TV, get a second job, whatever you have to do. You will never regret it.

175 feet isn't much frontage by country standards. But 350 feet or so, is enough room to frame a house for a beautiful, bucolic setting. It also gives you enough room for a sweeping driveway that leads to a side entrance garage, a big deal to me.

Choose a nice country house plan, maybe build a detached garage, maybe a small horse pasture, plant some white oaks,... and in ten years ... those neighbors stuck in the "up-scale" subdivision will be soooooo jealous.

vancleaveterry,

I like your attitude!

The restrictions you received for the countrylot are zoning rules. Unlike plat restrictions in a subdivision that are binding for a set period of time, zoning can be changed at any time (through a political process). What you want to look at is the long term plan for that township which will show how the town anticipates changing the zoning in the future and where it plans to allow future development. Not all townships have long terms plans, but it your town does it should be helpful.

I vote for #2. I am building among the Amish here in Ohio and I absolutely LOVE my new neighbors. Our house is being built by an Amish builder and I've been pleasantly surprised how smooth and pleasurable it's been, in contrast to dealing with several other suburban builders. I highly recommend the Amish as superior craftsman and wonderful neighbors. I lived in a suburb of Columbus for 20 years and now I will NEVER go back! Living with a well and a septic system takes some minor adjustments, but once it is in place and functioning as it should, it's not a big deal just as long as you use common sense. My water in the country is actually better quality than what I have in the city, believe it or not. I was surprised by that as well. It's important to get your water tested independently and then shop around for the water conditioning system that will address whatever the test shows, not the other way around. Most well water in Ohio is hard and possibly needs iron and/or sulfur removed. Once you put in the correct system and learn how to maintain it, it's not a big deal.

Buy as much land as you can possibly afford. You will never regret it. I was raised in the country and had an idyllic childhood. I was never bored for a minute because I had so much around me to explore. My husband was a city boy, but he's been coverted to the country life and can't wait to make the final move and leave the suburbs behind forever.

GO BUCKS!

The restrictions you received for the countrylot are zoning rules. Unlike plat restrictions in a subdivision that are binding for a set period of time, zoning can be changed at any time (through a political process).

How do you know those are zoning rules? Country property can have restrictions placed on it in exactly the same manner as subdivision development.

Ummm, the countryside lot is not set up with such big lots that you won't have neighbors or hear traffic going by. You will. We're on five acres now and the neighbors are more than close enough.

I think a lot depends on how much your home is what you live and not just where you lay your head between work, vacations and outside activities. If you want your home to be the seat of your life, then I would opt for more land. If you tend to be in and out more than in, then maybe not.

The 2 pets/no fence rule puzzles me. That essentially means for most people one cat, one dog, one dog chained in the yard barking, flinging against the chain and helpless because there is no fence. Doesn't sound appealing to me.

If it were me, I'd go with vancleavterry's advice.

Actually, we did. We bought 30-some acres recently.

What you describe could soon, with fast-growing landscape, etc., be a wonderful neighborhood with wonderful neighbors. There is no guarantee that the higher-density will have children to play with, either.

Septic is not really a big deal as long as the perc tests are done properly and you have a good leach field. Your tank will be sized for the house. If you have a good system and leach field, you may never think about it again. We've only drained ours once in 20 years. Other people do it every couple of years. Draining is not expensive--about $125 around here now. Again, the more land (with a gentle back slope somewhere) the better.

You can put in blacktop on your driveway and a large apron for b-ball and bikes and skates and such.

All that said, be sure as another poster warned that the "restrictions" you are looking at are actual deeded covenants and not just zoning or developer's starting rules. Zoning and rules change, and even enforcement can be a roll of the dice--especially in rural communities these things can be pretty arbitrary. When we bought our prop, we were second in and we insisted on a set of covenants that essentially set the best of the zoning protections and a few other things in stone for the rest of the lots. Given today's market, we were literally able to write our own set of covenants for all the lots. Remember, however, that covenants last forever and forever is a long time. You may want to be able to subdivide in 20 years and it is nice to leave room for all owners to unanimously decide to toss them at some point....

The paper I have says "Restrictive Covenants". Says they are in effect until January 31, 2048?

I would love to buy more land. This 2.33 is right in our budget. Anything else would really be over, but you have me thinking. This is such a hard decision. Its so permanent. The guy also has the adjacent 3.5 acres and 4.5 acres for sale. These are both closer to the main road and more money. I just wish there was more for sale around here, not much to choose from.

TwoGirls...Do what you can to get a little more room, best of luck!

And thanks lsst!

Hadley... I too bought 30 acres. Can't wait to start building on it.

Restrictive covenants mean they were or will be placed on the land by a previous owner or the current seller. It is not unusual for covenants to expire after some set term. However, some run forever.

If the covenants have not been recorded yet, you may be able to negotiate how they read as part of the bargaining process. You can even negotiate to have covenants placed on neighboring property(s) to protect your interests if the seller happens to own that property too. It doesn't have to be for sale in order to do that.

You should read the covenants carefully. They will dictate what you can and can't do with the property.

Two girls....

We may be pretty close! NE Ohio here too.... if you are close to the very large Amish area in this part of the state - I am a couple counties south of you! I know that area a bit.

Well strange things happened today. I found out that the land this guy is selling (the country lot) was auctioned off two months ago and he is already trying to sell and make a profit. He paid between 9-13K and acre and is now asking 17K an acre. He has a 2.3, a 3.5 and a 4.5 acre parcel. There were originally 5 parcels, he bought 3. So I talked to the auctioneer and he says that the one couple that bought one of the parcels is having "financial difficulty" and cant buy the lot now. Its 2 acres and we can have it for what they paid, 27K. The 2.33 acres we were looking at beside it being sold by Mr. Make-A-Profit is priced at 39,9K. So we can basically have the 2.0 acre lot (which is actually a little nicer looking than the other, better view etc.) for 27K if we want it. This seriously seems like a no brainer at this point. The sewer and well will cost us about 13K (already platted out and got estimates). So a total investment of 40K. Well the allotment price is 50K and the public sewer and water hook up fee is $3500. So total investment in the allotment is $53,500.

$40,000 for 2 acres in the country OR $53,500 for 1.25 acres in the allotment?

Yes I would love to have more land, but honestly right now at this point in our lives it will be enough for us to handle financially and responsibility wise. Im excited to save $13,000 and still have the little piece of country Ive always wanted. Before we were really stretching our mortgage and now this feels more comfortable.

Sorry to be longwinded and throw dollar amounts out there. Do you think we're doing the right thing?

How many other lots are in the development and how many already have homes on them?

It kind of sounds like you are rushing things. What's the market like on your area? Is there a reason you have to close on either property right away? I would prefer to have a better idea about the financial health of the development and the potential neighbors in the country.

solie - In the allotment there are about 50 lots and maybe 15 are left. Its been there for about 7-8 years. The country area has 5 parcels that recently were divided and went up for sale. There are other homes on the street with acreage. Some have been there for a while and some newly built. Its a mix, like you normally have in the country. We would be the first to build on these 5 parcels.

Heres the plat. Ours would be the 2.0 acres...

I dont feel like we are rushing. Land around here is very far and few between and its very desirable. The lots around our lot are appraising for more than what we are paying per acre. We have been in this process for over a year now. Selling our house, finalizing house plans, searching for land. We actually hoped to be in our new house before this school year began, and at this point we havent even started building.

Sorry, I didn't read your original post closely enough. I knew you were renting, but I didn't realize it was all part of a master plan to facilitate your build.

You clearly want the country lot. And it sounds like you have a good feel for both potential locations. So go with what you want. You've checked out what's available and you need something. Pick your favorite.

As others have mentioned, 2 acres of land doesn't seem like enough of a positive to offset the negatives (inconvenience, uncertainty of surrounding development), but maybe the community the smaller lot is in isn't all that great? So maybe you are better off rolling the dice with the (somewhat) larger lot.

Long narrow lots are the worst kind. You can't get very far away from the neighbors. You just have a deep backyard (many people in snow country build close to the road so that they don't have to plow a long drive). In the case of your 2 acre lot, you also have someone else's long drive going down the right side of the property to that large flag lot that we can't see all of.

The flag lot has the potential to be subdivided (unless there are restrictions on it), which means you may have multiple families passing right by your house on a frequent basis. Think worst case, like a bunch of kids riding up and down that long drive on dirt bikes all the time or some sort of business being built there (zoning can change).

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I don't think that 2 acre lot is a particulary good place to build.

The flag shaped looking lot (6.74 acres) belongs to the farmer who basically owns all of the surrounding land (about 40 acres) to the right and behind us. We talked to him yesterday. He doesnt plan to put a driveway there. He said he may move the fence line for the cows so they can walk over that way a little more, but thats all he has plans for. My DH told him if he decides to sell the 6.74 to let us know. He also has the same restrictions that we do, so thats good.

The best thing for us to do would be to buy the adjoining 2.3 acre lot, but right now the guy is asking too much and we cant afford it. If its still sitting there next year and we have equity in our home, we may try and buy it too. That would give us a nice 4.3 acres.

We really cant pass up the deal we're getting on the 2 acres. Its not huge, but it has enough good to outweigh the allotment. The view out the back is beautiful - rolling hills, farm animals and trees, NO other houses. Its not any further from conveniences than the allotment. Only 2 minutes from the highway.

Just because he has no current plans to sell it doesn't mean he won't. Things change. Events and situations occur to all of us that we can't predict. He or his heirs may be forced to sell, or simply decide to do so sometime in the future.

One of the benefits in buying in a subdivision development, what you call an allotment, is the peace of knowing pretty much what you are getting into. You can tell ahead of time what kind of neighborhood it will be, what kind and quality level of houses to expect, and even a little of what your neighbors will be like. If there is a HOA with restrictive powers, you have someone who can wield a legal hammer when necessary. This can be bad or good, depending on your viewpoint, but you get a remarkable level of assurity.

But buying in the country is different. You have to do much more research to protect yourself. You have to project the worst case scenarios and see if you will be able to live with what might happen.

A friend and I have discussed at length the question of the minimum acreage required to assure reasonable privacy. We both came to the same conclusion. You need a minimum of 10 acres in a square, if the property lends itself to siting the house in the middle. For any other shape, or if the house can't be sited in the middle, you will need more, sometimes much more. Two narrow acres with a 6+ acre flag lot next door doesn't begin to cut it.

But it's not my decision, so I'll say no more. Good luck, whichever way you go.

can you post the plat of the other lot? the smaller lot?
This lot is not looking good. Yeah, it haas two acres but it has a hot dog shape.

keep in mind that country living is WAY different than "city" living. i personally prefer it because i can do what i want with MY land/home. if my neighbor puts hogs on his property, oh well it won't bother me too much. when the wind is right, i smell the horse pasture next to us, again it does not bother me/us.

you need to really sit down make sure what YOU prefer. as others said there is no guarantee what will happen with the land around you 5-10 years from now. on teh 2 acres you could end up in the middle of a subdivision. nice thing is IF that happens, and there is no current covenant requiring membership later, you are under no obligation to join their HOA since you were there first!

Ok here's the other platt. We would be in the larger pie shaped lot that is highlighted yellow, the 1.239 Ac.

If you can see, there are two lots directly behind us that have houses from an older allotment. And this platt only shows about half of the newer allotment. There are more houses to the north.

Keep in mind this lot is 50K. Plus we have to have a complete stone/brick band around the perimeter of our house which will cost us a couple thousand more and the sewer/water hook up will be $3500.

Froghopper is right. Narrow lots are problematic.

Lots 3, 4 and 5 are much nicer.

Building on Lot One and then maybe someday buying Lot Two... after building on Lot One... will give you some privacy on that side, but will look odd with your house pushed to one side.

Have you picked out a home plan? How will it look on 150 feet? It's difficult to do a side entrance garage and a sweeping driveway in 150 feet, so one of the nicest design aspects of being out of a subdivision will be lost.

Could you buy Lot One now and a two year OPTION on Lot Two (the 2.3 acre lot), then continue renting and saving and buy lot 2, two years from now?

It sure would be in the interests of all of the other lot owners to see these two narrow lots combined. I'm surprised they were divided this way in the first place. Maybe you have some leverage with the help of the other lot owners.

Lot #3 in the corner is actually not so great. There is a creek that runs diagonally through that piece of property, so it makes it only half useable. It went the cheapest at auction, 9K an acre. Might be hard to sell. Lots #4 & #5 are right on the main road, so thats not so great.

We need to build now, so waiting 2 years wouldnt be an option. One guy owns lots 2,3 & 4. He bought them as an investment.

Our house will have a front load garage. Its about 80ft wide.

twogirls, slightly differing opinion here....given the things you have told us about the two areas and what you are finding out about the 2 acre country lot, for me it would also be a no-brainer (buy it if you like it!) It would be nice if we could all find/afford/enjoy acreage large enough to ensure we never saw another building, close to conveniences, with a guarantee that our view would never change. ;~) Okay, back to real life...yours...with the facts you have shared about land around there being difficult to find and afford, your budget, etc. I can see more "pros" than some posters...just my opinion of course. I can see that there are already other houses on your street (if it becomes yours) that have acreage around them (so there will always be a feeling of space and more land than houses) and lots of open space behind you and a nice view. Yes, there are lots behind you and there is a chance that whoever purchases them could put their house farther back and thus more in your line of sight....it'll still be a long way from your house and chances are high they will prefer to build at least a bit closer to the road (so you would still have quite a bit of space and land behind you to enjoy.) So you will have a house beside you, and maybe someday another one, and be able to see some other houses...okay. ;~) You'll still have lots of open space and big lots around those houses and that is a very nice thing to live with.

I do understand the point some are making, that large lots and long, narrow ones give you more space to take care of while still not ensuring complete privacy from the world...but in my book, more open space (around and behind the houses) and more "sky" and views around the area is still more open space and a desirable thing to live with.

I forgot to say that for me it would be a huge plus to not have an HOA (though it sounds as if you have decent covenants on the country lot which is good.) You already would like to have a fence, you already would like to have a dog and think you will probably break the "only 2 pets" rule in the HOA. Unless you move your house WAY back on the allotment lot you won't have any more room side to side and a whole lot more houses around you and less open space overall around the houses, etc. In reading all our differing opinions, I'm thinking (not for the first time) that there are "town people" and "country people" and the country people will almost always prefer more space, less rules, a little more room for animals, etc. even if it's just a little more! Sometimes just a little more room and a few less rules are all you need to make life grand. ;~))) Once the well and septic are in, you won't have monthly fees attached to them. Assuming wells in the area aren't running dry and the water is good, it's all the water you want for landscaping, garden, etc. with no big water bill attached. Ummm....which reminds me....HAVE you checked into wells in the area for how deep (and therefore expensive) they are to drill and whether the water is good and plentiful?

Checked into the well and we should be ok at 150 ft. Some neighbors have less, but no one has more than 150, so we got 150 quoted. It definitely works within the budget.

It would be great to have no water bill and no sewer bill. The monthly fee for public sewer would be $50, so thats a good savings. Our water bill in the city use to runs us around $40 a month.

Yep, I just realized you had already gotten estimates on septic and well. You would be saving some good money, for sure...plus you could have a fence and a dog and nobody to approve (or not) your landscaping and the style of your outbuildings. It would work for me! ;~)

Is one of the lots facing south?

What is the orientation of the lots if I may ask?
this is very important and I do not recall if you already said this.

Both of the backyards will face the south, however there would be alot more sun in the 2 acres because its all open to the south.