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Change in perspective

Posted by lavender_lass (My Page) on
Sun, Jul 22, 12 at 19:29

A few weeks ago, I had to walk the back pasture fence (getting ready to put the horses in there) and at the very top of the hill, there is a great view of the back of the old farmhouse. From up there, you can't see the neglect, the faded paint or the needed roof repairs. It just looked very appropriate to the space and quite charming :)

So...despite my desire to create a larger footprint, I think I'm going to bring back an earlier plan, with a few changes. Thanks to a few friends on the Smaller Homes forum for suggesting some more changes and here is what I have, so far.

Overall plan, but ran out of paper for the laundry/mudroom...

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And just the kitchen side, with the laundry/mud room. I did add an extra foot (so 12' deep intead of 11') to the hall bath and sun porch. It gives a little more space with the wood stove and for the sink, in the bathroom.

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, please let me know. I'm so tired of planning (I really am) but I'm also glad we didn't start demo, yet. I think the farmhouse will look a lot more authentic, with less overall changes. I guess walking fences is a good idea...and what I'm off to do, right now :)


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Change in perspective

Love the plan overall! Question about the two baths...since there is only one bedroom do you need two back to back? Or could you make it a powder room and incorporate the tub into the master bath? I know this isn't a farmhouse, but I think of this house when I see your house plans. It is so dreamy an quaint. I could sip cocoa and watch movies in it all day.


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RE: Change in perspective

Ga- I love that house! It's so cozy and inviting :)

Thanks for the 'thumbs up' on the plan. I wanted a separate bath with tub, for a few reasons. It will look very vintage, be easier for family to use (if we have guests) and there's a load bearing wall between the two bathrooms.

We do have an unfinished space upstairs that could be a bedroom or two and maybe room for a half bath. More likely, it will be a bunk room for nieces/nephews and another space that could be an office area/guest room combination.

I love cottage style and hope to keep a 1920s feel to the house, especially with trim, windows, doors...but mainly wood floors. Probably hex tile in the hall bath and larger tiles in the master bath.

Here's a sun porch that I really like...especially the windows!

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures


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RE: Change in perspective

So beautiful!


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RE: Change in perspective

lady lavender ...

didn't we do a version of this one , already ??

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RE: Change in perspective

LL--love the idea of a smaller footprint. Less is more, love grows best in little houses, etc. etc. That has been our primary struggle since buying our lot--building just enough house that we will won't be annoyed (or exceedingly jealous at others' houses).

The house above, I believe, is from the movie The Holiday (the fact that I, a male, know this, is proof I have spent too much time on this house project....!) If you do a little searching for it, you may find some other neat inspirations.


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RE: Change in perspective

Just recycling a post from The Old House Forum because you keep putting the cart before the horse here. You've received some indulgently generous help from many many people on your paper project dreams. Yes, it can take a long while to figure out a functional layout given the constraints of an older home, but at some point, if you don't start doing a few concrete real world steps to establish exactly what those limitations are for your paper scribblings, you are doing nothing but spinning your wheels and being abusive of the very generous posters who have contributed greatly to more paper scribblings in the past.

And, also, at some point if you won't pay the $99 for some software to be able to put your many revisions into a more readable (and revisable) format, doesn't it become obvious that you're not really willing to invest any $$ into actually doing something concrete to move forward?
_____________

The first thing you do is pay for a consult from a structural engineer to assess the integrity of the home as it sits. This is especially important since it hasn't been lived in in many years and had issues with roof leaks and the addition physically pulling away from the main home. That says structural issues that are $$ to fix.
Then, if the foundation, framing, and roofing systems aren't too damaged, you assess whether or not any of the old plumbing or electrical is suitable for modern day demands or whether or not it will all have to be removed and re-run. You will definitely have to have an electrical update to a 200 amp panel if you want a modern kitchen and HVAC for the home. And, you will have to have a modern septic that is adequately sized for the bedrooms planned installed. You will need to talk to your county's health department for that issue as they are the ones that deal with the permitting for that and similar health and safety issues such as well water testing. You do not want to simply "assume" that you can use anything that was created in the 50's. That may possibly be the case, but testing would need to happen to ensure that the tank isn't ruptured and the leach field still percs. Nothing say 1900's living like an actual open cess pool full of raw sewage!

If all new plumbing and electrical will have to be done, as would most likely be the case here, then flipping the function of the rooms is less of an issue than if anything original were to be retained. You simply gut the entire home down to the studs and let the trades at it. Once that 80K worth of basic needs is met, then you can address any cosmetic issues.

The guts of a home aren't sexy like the doors and windows and trimwork, but they are the heart of the home, and without those being in good shape, it does zero amount of good to fantasize about having the fingernails manicured if the actual body is in danger of expiring at any moment.

BTW, a "contractor's opinion" is NOT a substitute for a structural engineer's report, especially on an older home such as this that has been added on to over the decades and whose foundation is suspect. Pay the $500-$700 and get an actual real world assessment of the concrete issues that rehabbing this home will entail. Until that is done, anything else is useless mental masturbation.


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RE: Change in perspective

Hollysprings- All good points...thank you, for your thoughtful response!

Cam- Thank you. And you have spent a lot of time working on your house project...but what a wonderful plan you have!

You're right...that picture is from the movie 'Holiday'...and I believe it was a movie set, not an actual house. That's one reason you only see it pictured from the front. How sad, because it's such a great little cottage. The other two houses were real though, I believe...seems I read about it on the 'Hooked on Houses' website.

Summerfield- Exactly! That's what I said in the second line...that I was bringing back an old plan with a few changes. Actually, two plans, because the master bedroom and bath have the three feet added to them, again.

So, what do you think about the entry being even with the dining room wall, now? It adds enough room for there to be an entrance from the back hall to the dining room...and now the door to the hall bathroom is not the first thing you see, when you enter the house.

Also, I realized my dimensions were off in the dining room last winter, so it's 12' wide and 13' long, making the kitchen/dining room 23'6" long. Losing the foot in the kitchen width means a work table (not an island) but the fridge is now where the oven was and there's a larger window/more upper cabinet storage on the kitchen sink wall. And, I moved the oven/microwave to make a baking area in half the pantry.

And...I put the little kitty door, behind the plant, in the dining room, so they can have their space under the countertop in the other half of the pantry (under the window to the sun porch).

So...what do you think? :)

Also...I want to take a moment, to thank each and every person, who has helped me with my little farmhouse plan. I have made many changes, but this 'little project' has helped keep me focused and even calm, while so many stressful events were taking place, including some I can't talk about online...and of course, the truck hitting our house.

Everyone has stress but unlike many of my friends, I'm not taking those little blue pills...so in large part, that's thanks to all of you...not only helping me with my plan, but having a place to come talk about subjects we all enjoy and helping each other with our projects.

Of course, summer is always better for us, since we can get outside, play with the horses, garden, etc. and not be stuck inside with three feet of snow on the ground! But, I wanted to say how much I appreciate all of you and how thankful I am to have such good GW friends :)


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Other option

Summerfield's plan also had the option with the dining room in the front. Here it is, with a few small changes. Moving the stairs forward, allows a 'back hall' between the bedroom and kitchen...and a good place for the fridge...and a small pantry/shelves, too.

The dining room has more space for the table (and a window seat with bookcases) but no direct access to the sun porch. I do like this set up better, though...where you can really enjoy the view :)

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Next week, I won't be on the forums as much, since I've got to start taking classes for work. I'm hoping that when I'm done, it will give us more flexibility with our business and help bring in more clients, too.

And on a less happy note, two more friends/family members are losing their jobs, this month. I hope things improve soon! It's such a 'challenge' running your own business, but at least I don't have to walk into work one day and find out I've been 'let go' which is such a casual way of phrasing it.


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RE: Change in perspective

So when are you actually building this house???


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RE: Change in perspective

Our son also has his own, fairly recession-proof business, and we're so glad. You also seem significantly more self reliant than most at home too.

I like all your variations but would also prefer to dine looking out a window.

The big negative is the lack of direct access to the sun porch, and it does seem like a big negative. Your home should become a product of a synergy between the older rooms and this beautiful and important new one.

Working from the general layout on Summerfield's design, with the staircase staying where it is, and considering your drawing with 2 baths, would it instead be possible to use those spaces for one nice bath plus an extension of the back of the central hall so it could have a doorway to the sunroom? The kitchen could become an L against the staircase, the door through the work room toward the back for quick access from the kitchen.

Or the staircase could shift forward and the hall also be extended back to the sunroom, rather than the kitchen.

You must have tried this already and found some problem, but having the sun room open off the central hall does really seem a natural step to pulling all the elements together very nicely and in a relatively simple manner.


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RE: Change in perspective

Rosie- You're right, better access to the sun porch would be a big improvement. I don't really want to change the kitchen, but I could make that hall bath smaller. Maybe something like this?

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And we only need a small wood stove, for extra cooking/heat, when the power goes out. Something like this is nice, because the alcove protects people walking into the sun porch, from that side door.

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

LuAnn- It's an existing farmhouse that we plan to remodel, over time. I'm on this forum, because Summerfield doesn't seem to visit the Remodeling forum.


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RE: Change in perspective

I love that little alcove and stove. What do you think?

Will you be able to use that room in...February, say, with the help of the stove? I'm sitting on my steamy second-story Georgia porch, BTW, overhead fans going full blast, tall green trees in all directions, imagining sitting there and looking out at the snow-covered pasture and hillside in your picture. :)


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RE: Change in perspective

I think it would be warm enough in February! And, Laura suggested using the radiant floor heating, which is supposed to keep the space nice and warm.

It sounds VERY hot and humid, where you are...so here's a very cold photo from last winter...with snow blowing through the trees. Hope it helps :)

From Lavender's Garden


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RE: Change in perspective

It is, and it actually does, for a split chill. :)


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RE: Change in perspective

Here's one more picture...sunny, but very cold. The apple tree was just covered with snow :)

From Lavender's Garden

And, one more idea for the bathroom/sun porch. I added a few feet, to make the bathroom a little roomier and have more space for the wood stove.

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures


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RE: Change in perspective

lady lavender ... this plan is not going to work , with your roof lines ...

i think that keeping the old bathrooms in place is limiting what could be a better flow , from front to back ...

since this will be a remodel , i would strongly suggest building a new , more private , master bath , and a new powder room ...

as you desire a larger , more efficient kitchen ... work with that idea , and make your dining space more casual , with a view !

i'm attaching a new plan that i hope will work very nicely towards that end , for you ...

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


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RE: Change in perspective

Summerfield- Thank you for the new idea :)

One thing I like in our latest plan, is that the vestibule is now even with the dining room area, which give us a little more space at the bottom of the stairs. Also, the dining room/kitchen is 12' wide (not 13') but the length is 23'.

I know these roof lines are a challenge. Is your concern the master bedroom area? I don't think the back addition will be a problem, but I could redo the master. Maybe put a smaller bath off the right side. The well is too close to have the addition flush with the back, but smaller would work.

While I really like the dining room/keeping area, the sun porch has a view and a way to keep the kitties out, in the evening. While I like the convenience of the kitchen up front, it just seems to flow better (actually standing in the farmhouse) when it's in the back. I guess it just seems too contemporary, for the rest of the house.

I'm trying to find a plan that keeps the old farmhouse as similar as possible, just adding a few additions, which were common at the time. Hopefully, this will keep the charm of the structure, but allow us a bit more living space.

What about something like this, with the change in the master bedroom?

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures


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Kitchen windows

Also, I like that in the winter, the windows in the kitchen can be full of plants and still feel like summer. With a grow light above, and the sun porch on the other side, the plants won't get too cold in the windows.

I don't mind sitting in the window seat or the sun porch...and watching the snow fall. That's kind of cozy. But, having the snow right outside the kitchen window always seems a bit gray and depressing. This way, we can have herbs, all year round :)

My dream kitchen...

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures


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Master bath

Wait, I like this even better! Someone suggested this a long time ago...the bathroom would have outdoor access to the hot tub, whether it's on a deck, patio or covered.

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures


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Scullery kitchen

MamaGoose posted this 'scullery kithen' link, on the Smaller Homes forum...as an example of how to open up the pantry/porch area, to the rest of the kitchen. Here's the link and it's a really neat idea, especially for an older house.

And, this is what I've come up with, to add the pass through to the cooking and baking areas.

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to scullery kitchen


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RE: Change in perspective

You know, if you took just one concrete step towards doing something real here, it's the start down the road. At least buy some damn software at least so you don't keep killing so many trees with these interminable throwaway revisions of scribblings. If you won't spend even $100 in the three years time that you've been posting scribblings, then what actual and real personal investment in this project are you willing to make? If YOU won't make that small real world investment in your own project, how on earth can you expect anyone to take you seriously as to this fantasy ever being real? And why should anyone waste their time helping you if you won't even help yourself? If $100 worth of software is too expensive a tool to help you plan, then how on earth do you think you're going to tackle a ramshackle building that's on the verge of collapse due to foundation issues?

Fish or cut bait.


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RE: Change in perspective

lavender_lass is just dreaming.

I asked her a while ago when work will start.... there is no time frame what-so-ever.


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RE: Change in perspective

LOL! I have to say, my contrary nature makes me want to post more threads, not less, when people tell me they don't like it. There's an easy solution, don't open my threads, don't read them and don't respond. You certainly don't have to...but if you keep telling me not to do something...it's just makes me want to do it that much more! :)

And, since I spend time helping other people on this forum and the kitchen forum, I don't think there's any reason I shouldn't ask a few questions. My time table is my own...and my reasons for having to put the remodel on hold are my own, too. That doesn't mean I will never move forward, but it does mean that I will continue planning, while I wait. If you don't like my threads, then by all means, don't read them. That's the beauty of a free country, free speech and all those other little pesky freedoms we enjoy in the USA.


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RE: Change in perspective

A pass through over a range? That is an accident waiting to happen. Not sure it would meet code - backsplash, vent hood.


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RE: Change in perspective

I always enjoy your posts Lavander Lass. I am finally moving forward to the groundbreaking day. My husband and I have called this the "ficticious addition" for so long we are evaluating all the needs and wants and I'm thinking like you, I might decide to curb it in a little to keep the charm factor, ease of cleaning and the desire to NEVER have to move once we develop the empty nest syndrome. You've helped me in the past and I hope you will continue to be here to help me with many questions.


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RE: Change in perspective

Hi Lavender Lass,

I just wanted to say I have enjoyed reading and viewing your plans -- full of creative ideas and thoughts. I spent three years planning my large addition, and have continue to micro plan even as we are actually building the addition. You will get there. In the meantime, it is a great idea to plan as much as you can and in as much detail as you can. Paper planning is cheap compared to tearing down say a garage roof (which I did due to poor planning in this area -- left the roof line to our architect rather than find a way to see it in Sketch-up).

I also wanted to say a thank you to you for a comment probably a year or more ago you made on my kitchen plan (it had to do with moving the fridge location). At the time, I did not make the change, but as time passed and I reflected on it, I realized your fridge location idea was so much better than in our original plan. So, even though we are still tweaking the kitchen plan (and using a left over partially demo'd kitchen) we are now certain where to place the fridge.

Carol


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RE: Change in perspective

Dekeoboe- As always, thank you for the response. I think it will be more of an interior window than an actual pass through, but definitely need to find out if this is a code problem. I don't think so, from checking earlier...but I will check again.

Houseofsticks- Thank you so much...and congratualtions on moving forward! It can be frustrating to be stuck in 'planning mode' for so long, but I think we do end up with better homes that way :)

Carol- You're right...paper is much cheaper. LOL I want to thank you for the kind words and I'm so glad one of my suggestions was helpful to your plan. I'll have to check for pictures on the August building thread...congrats on the progress!


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RE: Change in perspective

LL,
I think that hollysprings's suggestion for you to acquire and learn some kind of floorplan/architectural software is a great idea.
There's basic software of this type that you can download for free, or at least a free trial.
Once you've mastered that, you could move on to more advanced software. Some of these are very complete and thorough and even allow you to have blueprints printed.
Since you are in no hurry, it wouldn't matter if it took awhile to learn how to use these programs. By the time you're ready to begin construction, you might be a real whiz!
No offense, but I have to admit that I never look at your hand-drawn plans for long.
I simply cannot decipher them.

Best of luck!


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RE: Change in perspective

Lavender's design process, with its special creativity and fluidity of thought, has been an ongoing contribution of design ideas to, what, 3?, 4? forums? I've always figured you'd build when the time's right, Lavender, now or later just fine--just as long as you still come here to help others break their old boxes and put them back together just right too.

BTW, I'm in love with that alcove with the little wood stove. Next house, maybe. The little one I'm already looking forward to with a Julia Child-ish kitchen, cozy library, and old enclosed porch/sun room. (The one with old trees arching over and doors between the rooms so we can only cool and heat a smaller portion still when climate's swinging particularly wild.)


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RE: Change in perspective

Bunkum. What you mean is this "special creativity and fluidity of thought" (i.e, all talk and no action) has abused 3-4 forums for 3 years without doing a single concrete thing to even figure out if the old shack can be saved. 3 more years of it rotting away with a leaky roof and an addition pulling away from the central home and the doors and windows rotting off while paper scribblings undergo thousands of revisions and nothing real gets done that would allow those paper plans to have any foundation in reality. You can't plan where the fancy stuff goes until you know if that addition with the foundation issue has to be torn off or not or a thousand other things that impact a real project. If someone won't invest money in their own project's bones, then it's not really a project, is it?

Yes, LL contributes to other peoples threads, but her own threads are nothing more than a series of fantasies that abuse the contributors to them.


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RE: Change in perspective

Wow. What's happening here? I am also prone to very blunt speaking, so please believe me when I say I don't mean any of that.

All who stay here to contribute do it for their own pleasure. If there's any "abuse" going on, it's self abuse. For me, it's all been pleasure. I pass on many threads because I can't share the poster's dream. That's never been the case with Lavender.

BTW, I am also in the process of designing my next house, which I do know won't come to be for a while yet. If I choose to keep my own plans private instead inviting this community of fellow enthusiasts to enjoy the design process, that's just my less-sociable way.

Lavender's biggest contribution probably isn't even her constant contribution of good ideas, though, but her unfailing graciousness and generosity to everyone who comes to these forums. If a thread becomes mean and aggressive, she weighs in to help restore balance and decency, in her own courteous and thoughtful manner that directs the thread back to the design issues the poster was hoping to have addressed.


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RE: Change in perspective

"Lavender's biggest contribution probably isn't even her constant contribution of good ideas, though, but her unfailing graciousness and generosity to everyone who comes to these forums. If a thread becomes mean and aggressive, she weighs in to help restore balance and decency, in her own courteous and thoughtful manner that directs the thread back to the design issues the poster was hoping to have addressed."

I agree. I personally don't care if she doesn't complete her project in five years or ever. I enjoy having her around.


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RE: Change in perspective

LavenderLass, you keep right on planning. DH and I took 7 yrs and 6 architects to design our house, and then took 3yrs before we completed it. I think some folks thought it would never happen (including us!). But it did once we got the layout right.

I used to tease that some folks spent their weekends fishing or boating or playing golf...we spent ours designing houses. I did eventually get some software which made generating the designs a lot faster...though
not sure it was more productive...just more designs.

I also chalked up all those architect fees to " tuition" costs as I learned more and more about what I needed to know and look for in order for my needs and amateur skills to meet the needs and professional concerns and considerations of the architect. At long last, and with the right architect who was willing to collaborate, we came up with a wonderful home that is lovely to look at and functions perfectly for us.


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RE: Change in perspective

LL,

I read back through my previous post and feel the need to clarify.

When I said, "I simply cannot decipher them," I meant only that.

My eyesight is not what it once was, and I have struggled in vain to make out your hand-drawn plans.

However, I can see computer-generated renderings just fine.

Again, best of luck.

MS


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RE: Change in perspective

Isn't the free exchange of information the very reason that this forum exists? Lavendar Lass has contributed so much through her posts and comments. She does not deserve attack merely because her plans may have been delayed or her perspective has changed. If you choose to offer "constructive criticism", surely it can be presented in a civil manner.


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RE: Change in perspective

"She does not deserve attack merely because her plans may have been delayed or her perspective has changed. "

Attack? Because of a delay?
I do believe that is NOT the point at all.

I think the point is that many people spent precious time giving advice that was unheeded/shot down/planned over/whatever.
They drew up plans and gave serious thought... but to no avail. THEY feel more invested in this project than the OP is, as there is no effort to make this dream a reality.
The frustration just bubbled up.
IMHO.....


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RE: Change in perspective

You know somthing? No one has ever forced anyone to give advice, or even to respond to certain threads. I find a few of the comments to lavender lass very offensive and uncalled for. Who the heck cares if she is taking her time building this home. If you are so darned frustrated, then why are you reading the posts? And accusing her of abuse is one of the most off the wall things I have heard.

How could you be so arrogant as to know whether her current home is rotting and about to fall down around her? I'm sure you have never been to her home, and I'm sure she wouldn't be living there if that was the case.

Either be nice...or go somewhere else.


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RE: Change in perspective

I didn't want to bump this thread up, but since it has come back up...I want to thank everyone for the very nice responses.

I'm not sure why a few people have been so upset about my posts. I do appreciate any and all input and helpful suggestions...whether they end up in the plans or not. I will say that my plan now is MUCH better than my earlier plans.

We had a plan similar to this one, when the truck hit our house last fall...and I decided to try something bigger and with the living areas in the back. A natural response, IMHO, to a pick up truck crashing into your front window at midnight.

Since then, I've been thinking that the plan should be more in line with the actual farmhouse...not changed so much that you can't see the bones of the original home. So, now I'm back to a smaller plan with lots of storage and a nice big sun porch.

While there are other reasons for the delay, I have hesitated to list them. Partly because I have family members who know I'm on the GW and I haven't told them about some of these issues...and I don't want them to read about them here. Let's just say that those issues are beginning to improve and hopefully we'll be back on track very soon.

Thanks again for the kind words and I hope you all are having wonderful progress with your own projects :)


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RE: Change in perspective

Every forum I have ever been on has had drama. The worst being the pregnancy forums- oy, angry, uncomfortable pregnant women with access to the internet = really intense drama over things like lunch meat and epidurals.

But I will admit, this drama made me laugh a bit. Who cares if the OP never builds her house? Sounds like she contributes to the forum in many other ways. Unless someone comes back and posts pictures of their actual build, we have no way of knowing if they actually built a house that people on the forum helped design. I don't think people come here to see each plan they help with come to fruition- although that is fun. It more about sharing ideas & passions.


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RE: Change in perspective

Wow, a lot has happened in the past few weeks. Good and bad, but so many changes on top of each other that I might be remodeling sooner than even I expected...and I need a larger plan with easier access.

So, if anyone wants to give this a shot...I need to take Summerfield's earlier design and make some changes. The study/guest room will be in front with a hall bath and I need to make sure hallways and bathrooms are handicap accessible.

The bath I added is probably not, but my Paint skills are not good...just trying give the general idea. The study/bathroom is 12' wide and 23' long, so plenty of room for a larger bath, if needed.

As for the section whited out...I'd like a laundry/utility room in the front (with farm sink under window) and the mudroom to the left of it, with door to the front. We often go out to the mudroom from the bedroom or living room, more often than the kitchen...and groceries can be brought in through the main front door. Parking will be in front and to the left of the house.

Behind the laundry/mudroom (left of the living room) we want the master bedroom, closet and bath. Again, handicap accessible would be great...and this area can stick out past the laundry/mudroom, but probably no further back than the living room back wall.

I would appreciate any and all ideas and a hot tub off the master bedroom or bath would still be wonderful. I'll try to check back in tonight...

From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures


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