This is a type of house where you have to do a real meaningful 3D modeling or actual small scale modeling to see how shapes relate to each other. You also need to select material carefully to carry this off.

just from the floor plan, you can end up with the ugliest house on the street versus the coolest. you will never know just from this.

This is a dark uninviting house with very little natural light. You need more light in this house. Your house feels and lives like a town home with houses on both side stuck to your house.

"I can tell it is a work from a true architect and not from a floorplan drafting person."

I don't know. Do they teach omitting windows in architecture school? A master bathroom without natural light ??
A long, narrow master bedroom with one small window on the short wall?
Same with the dining room? The kitchen gets its natural light from the great room and the breakfast nook (the only well lit area)?

On the plus side, you can use the master bathroom as a dark room if you have an old-school photography hobby!

Oh, and a flooplan drafting person probably would not draw interfering doors like in the STUDY/MUSIC room and its CLOSET. Is this really an architect designed house or are you messing with us???

Here is the thinking inside the box, all the the right angled version of the architect's preliminary plan. I am trying to see if it has captured the good ideas from him without the extra cost and other risks.

Jrldh, I don't know your background. But this is an architect. I verified his state registration online. He has over 20 yrs experience. He won a recent design award. And I can continue. It is a hourly rate project. The preliminary is not complete and has a lot of to fine tune and I am not too worried about that. Main thing is shall we adopt his idea of angled wall or not. He is aksing for my trust and I have some reservations. I guess I would wait some more time and then let him complete the second floor.

Thanks! Jf

So you'll be living in the London 2012 logo?
If the only reason to go with these unusual angles is that it makes for an interesting plan drawing, I don't think that's enough. Angles aside, your plan is much cleaner and stronger than the one you first poated. But as I think I suggested a few weeks back on your old thread, you should really step back from the plan and study through elevation, 3D views, models, whatever. It could give you a lot of information that you won't get from another four weeks of diddling with the plan.

Interesting design but it's just a plan. I would need to see the elevations and roof plan. I suspect the architect will need a computer model in order to complete the design.

"I can tell it is a work from a true architect and not from a floorplan drafting person. "

Nope, not at all. More like seems like it's a work from a young guy who has a new software toy that he likes to stay up late at night to play with. I'd be checking out his certification with AIA. People put any kind of crap they want online until someone actually calls them on it.

However, also considering the fact that you've gotten changes lighting fast during a holiday week, together with the telltale amateurish layouts, I'd have to say that there isn't an actual architect within miles of this and it's a solo DIY effort. You're attempting to yank some chains of some very nice people here.

Hollysprings, I said that I verified his state regisitration online at http://www.tbae.state.tx.us/PublicInformation/SearchIndividual (with his name and registration number xxx76, it shows a certifcation date of 2001 and expiration date of 11/30/2013). I guess it is a state by state thing. How can you check somebody's license going to the AIA website. His tile shows AIA, LEED AP though.

The architect only came up with a rough preliminary for the first floor. You can tell it is incomplete as the masterbath is not there. He was asking me to give him permission to continue work on 2nd floor. It is a hourly rate project and he was doing me a favor of asking me. I am trying to make decisions early on in the process.

Again, there is only a single drawing from the architect. The rest are mine. I can do pretty fast on Sketchup and I am on the project like 24/7.

Home designer / house plan drafting person / architect are all professionals serving different customers.Just like any profession, they can be good or bad. I am have some limited experience with them and learn more once the house is finished.

When I am saying that "I can tell it is a work from a true architect and not from a floorplan drafting person. " , it is a my own recount (I am using this place somewhat like a blog, diary). I am sorry if I offend anybody here. Just think that I am having limited knowledge, poor taste, or whatever. Peace.

Thanks! Jf

@ Renovator8,

Thank you for your input on the plan. You are well respected here. You can tell that the majority (80%+) people have serious reservations about the angled walls with good reasons (building cost, how to live with it, etc). I am too not sure coz it is something I am not used to. I need an affordable and comfortable house for sure.

Seems like you are not against it. Right? I am inclined to give the architect the benefit of doubt. I also want a house not too boring like my neighbor Joe's.

The architect said he is "using Revit 2014Revit 2014 to design all my projects which is a 3D Building Information Modeling Software that allows me to get extremely detailed and produce documents with great efficiency."

I agree that we need to see the roof plans and elevations to better evaluate the design. I don't like to pay extra fees of going a route not feasible. But we cannot tell until we see more. I will keep you posted.

Jf

@Dadereni,

>So you'll be living in the London 2012 logo?

Nope. It looks more like a dog to me. LoL.

I remember your suggestion of going foward to do a rough but complete design on the elevations and 3D models as they work together with the floor plan.

I totally agree with that and I think I have a workable plan too. As I do not know how to do the roofline and elevations myself, I have hired an architect for that.

Using angled walls or not is a decision I am trying to make. It is hard without all the rest of the information.

I am not sure if I miss anything with all the straight walls as in the Sketchup model that I DID with red ink walls. Or I shall let the architect do his job first with everything.

Jf

@ kaismom,
Thank you for your inputs. Yes. He will be doing the 3D and perspective views on a computer. I am not sure there is a plan on small scale modeling.

The hard part is that we see good potentials and big risks a the same time. The fact that I am not sure if that is the right way to go is due to the incomplete information available to me. I will bug the architect with more questions.

I am not too worried about the light at this moment. The back (south) has a lot of windows there. Front street will be ok. The east neigbor side we have not put windows yet. The western street side (where kitchen stands) is most worrisome. I asked the architect to put as few windows as possible to avoid the summer heat. Maybe we can still put a few windows with the top-of-the line energy efficiency ratings.

@MrsPete,

Very good suggestions. I did a right angled version of the architect's design and used some of your ideas.

1. I removed the cubbies and put a door to the powder room.

2. Yes. The closet provides better access to the storage space under the stairs. The architect also suggested a safe there if we like to have one. My wife has been looking for a design with two exterior walls in the masterbath. Hope it will work.

3. As an alternative design option, I straightened out all the slanted walls. See my latest plan. Not sure how that will interfere with the architect's original design. One thing I can tell is that the view from the cleaning sink when we wash dishes will not be that great. It is more difficult to see outside through the windows. Going straight or keeping slanted walls is the biggest question for me right now.

3. I took out the coats. I may put it back if needed.

4. Good suggestion on seeking advice on kitchen layout. I will do that once we have a general direction of what we shall go. He is also suggesting 2 story living room.

I really apprecate your comments. You are very nice and helpful. (Why would somebody say that I am attempting to yank some chains of some very nice people here?)

Jf

Registration is a state-by-state thing, even though the requirements of the various jurisdictions have been converging. An architect must have current license to represent himself as an architect and offer architectural services in that jurisdiction. Architects are not required to join the AIA, a profession association.

Skilled use of Revit, especially for unconventional forms, can help with coordinating building systems so they play well together and changes in one view of the model ought to be reflected everywhere. It can even help with prefabrication of certain building components (structure, HVAC), this depends on having access to people with those capabilities.

I'm not necessarily opposed to the use of unconventional angles, and it's apparent here that it was done with some care. Ans I appreciate how there are very few angles smaller than 90 degrees in the plan (generally in closets). I just think if this is the way you all want to go, the architect's intentions could be clearer. For instance, if everything were rectangular except one significant space; or if this were a cluster of well-defined shapes (bedrooms, kitchen, dining) with the resulting space between as the great room. What I'm saying is, I think it could be stronger by either dialing it back a bit and emphasize one portion, or being bolder!

Potentially interesting alternatives: Have the angled forms only really show on the exterior, and to make the rooms inside rectangular--this would mean the walls would be tapered, and the thicker portions could contain closets, utility chases, niches, window seats, other built-in elements. Or flip it and have the exterior footprint with right angles and the interior room plans be irregular--while the house would look more conventional from the outside you would be surprised when going inside. Where do you want the novelty and what benefits would you like? With this second alternative you could have rectangular formwork/foundation/framing/roof plan, and use non-bearing partitions to make your angles--could be easier and less expensive.

@BirdLover,

Yes. I am always concerned about the cost as right now the living sqft area is about 10% over my original plan. When I talked to a builder yesterday, he told me that the archtect's plan is funky and more expensive to build. He could not give me a percentgae number as he needed to see roof plans. He even said the roofplan won't work as he never did anything like this.

When I relayed the builder's response to him, I got a response from him saying "
Lets focus first on getting the design right and then we will adress cost. It will not cost as much as you might think because what it comes down to is the amount of materials required, etc. At this point, The builder you spoke to doesn't have enough information to determine any quality costing and given his resposne, simply does not have enough experience or understanding of how to build what I am proposing. "

Yes. The put the refrigirator back to kitchen.

You had been following my old thread and I receive so many wounderful suggestions from you to better my plan and I really appreciate that.

I may need to set up a blog to dairy my building process. It is not just for my own sake, I would also like to share it with nice people like you. I fee bad that a couple of people are thinking that I am making up some fake story here just o take advantage of people for free advices.

Jf

I need my master bedroom and the great room, kitchen all to be sqaure. I do like the view from the kichten to the backyard through all the windows in GR and breakfast. I am not really into it but kind of finding the inviting looks from the front acceptable. So here goes my plan with some of the slanted walls (in green) kept and some walls straightened out (in red). Here comes the stripped down version of the architect's design.

So I have three options: 1) the architect's plan 2) modified version of the architect's design with all straight walls 3) modified version of the architect's design with a mixture of straight walls and angled walls. All three designs are posted here. I am looking at option 2 vs 3. Jf

I am not opposed to angles and I am all in favor of "different." It is a big leap from a floor plan to a house, though, so what is "interesting" in plan can be a pain to live with. I think that's what the other posters are cautioning you about as well. Just remember that you will never have this birds-eye view of your actual house-- you will always be living in 3D! I like the idea above of having the angles on the outside, but rectangular rooms inside. I would find it more relaxing. But if you are working with a person you trust and you feel that he truly takes your interests and goals to heart (as opposed to wanting to do something "more interesting" just because it is more interesting, then more power to you.

I do NOT believe that the additional costs will be insignificant, though, even in Texas. Labor is a significant chunk of the project-- that's why building costs are so variable across the country-- it's not because plywood and nails vary a lot. I wish you the best-- you have a great attitude!

This is a plan that I did to keep the exterior angles of study and dining and do right angle rooms inside using a few place holders (some dead zones may find their usage for niches, shelves).

Somehow the left side wall of the pantry still does not look right to me but I don't know how to fix it.

@Dadereni: Thank you so much for your insights on this. I will follow up with the architect to see what we can do to make it better.

@Lori_inthenw: Building a house is such a challenging thing (can be stressful and a lot of fun too). It is so nice to get people's ideas for those who have been there done that.

The good thing of this process of writing down my thoughts and getting reviews is that I am getting know more and more of my internal needs/wants and that is very important.

It is clear to me that I need the bedrooms, living area, kitchen to be rectangle. My first principle of doing a customized house is to make sure that we get something we feel comfortable with. The designer said he is going to design a house worhty of that premium corner lot but that is not our priority.

Budget is an important thing. It is of no use if we come up with a design and realize that we are not able to build it or stretch too much and live poor inside a beautiful home.

Comfortable and affordable living satisfied, we do not need but would want a house pleasing to our eyes.

Trying to be unique for the sake of be different for sure is not good enough as @dadereni pointed out earlier.

This thing will work out eventually. I am giving it a try to see if the architect's design can be improved with my concerns. If not doable in the end, I will switch to the right angles. I love boxes. It is just that I think the architect deserve my respect and his design shall be put into serious and full consideration. If nothing else, for the service fees that I am paying him. :)

Jf

I think Lori In the NW has summed it up pretty well. I'm not convinced that the angles won't just look wonky in real life.

Mrs Pete, I know. Apparently I am not convinced too. That is why I made a big fuss about it. There are just too many angled walls. I am still trying to see if I somehow can incorperate some of the ideas from my architect.

Here comes my latest plan, which sounds acceptable to me. There are mainly angled walls left
1) breakfast left side. It is for better view from the GR so I like it. I just get it that the angle is well calcuated and it extends right at the upper left corner of the garage.

2) The study/music right side wall. In together with the dining left side, it provides an inviting gesture to people coming to the entrance. I am not sure what it will feel inside. However, there is a window on that side and maybe I shall not be too worried about furniture placement. I may have a custom-made or built in desk for that corner.

The other angled walls are just decorative. Both dining are sitting area become rectangle after I put some small wedged place holders there (black dead zones). The front of the wall oven is just designed that way. There is only one angle of 8.5degree with two symmtric directions in the plan.

I think that I had tried my best and will take that to the architect to see if he can somehow accommodate my needs on this testy issue. Basically the design was put on hold because of those angled walls.

Thanks again for your comments! Jf

A plan is not house design. Don't get hung up on details. This design requires a computer model before it can progress.

Renovator, I understand. If by computer model you mean 3D model showing roofs, elevations, etc, I think the architect will have the computer model for us after we are first OK with the ideas in the floor plan. So it is a chichen and egg problem here.

It looks like that I cannot afford to let the architect to try out the idea by going throgh the whole design process unless I am pretty clear that this is going to work for us, meaning in the end it will function well, look good, and is within our budghet.

My decision is to give it a pass. I will keep the two angled walls in the back (sitting right side and breakfast left side) and eliminate other angled elements in the design. That will come closer to my orginal plan.

It is a shame that I will not be able to let the architect complete his vision on the design. I don't know how to explain it but there is some intrinsic beauty of the design when I first saw it and still appreciate that. It is just too risky going that route and Either I do not have enough financial resouces for that or I am not brave enough here.

Most (>90%) of the houses in our area are designed without an architect. I called up several firms and they normally don't do residential. I found this architect through recommendation of a local AIA official. Hopefully, things still work out well in the end.

I will keep posting my progress here. Thanks! Jf

Revised floor plan for the main floor. The master bath still needs to be worked out.

hey, whatever floats your boat brah

Your DW is floating. Where will your dish storage be? Will you be walking 10 feet between DW and the cabinet where the glasses will be stored? Plates? I'd rethink the 2 island idea. But, if you like it, just make sure you don't end up needing to walk 10000 steps just to do the dishes.

I find it difficult to believe that an experienced architect would insist on the plan being finalized before studying the 3D massing of the house. IMO that is an amateurish approach to building design.

I'm sorry, but I can't say that I'm a fan. You've ended up with an overly large powder room and a cramped laundry room. It's bad. That entire space should be reconfigured to give you what will work best in your day-to-day life.

The sink and range are ridiculously far from each other. I can't imagine hauling my heavy Le Crueset or large gumbo pot from the range to the sink.

The person who sleeps on the backyard side of the bed is going to have a long walk to go to the toilet during the night - a real pet peeve of mine. :)

Breakfast area is cramped, considering all the space back there that could be reconfigured.

I do love the large pantry. :) In fact, you have so much storage in there, that you could rearrange your kitchen to flow and function better even it means giving up a bit of counter top and cabinet storage in the kitchen.

This post was edited by bird_lover6 on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 17:59

@FmrQuahog, Yes. I am happy that I made the decision and kept the ball rolling. Thanks to everyone’s inputs here.

@Kirkhall, Good point. Thanks! I did not think of this. There is neither upper nor under cabinets right to the DW to store dishes. I am now looking at the cabinets behind the Coats/HVAC area.

@Renovator8, I agree that 3D massing early on in the building design process is critical. @Dadereni pointed it out to me too earlier. I recently read a book entitled “Get Your House Right: Architectural Elements to Use & Avoid” and the author suggested starting a house design from roofs. The architect seems most comfortable to proceed with floor plans first and then 3D modeling mainly due to the limited hours capped for the project.

@Bird_lover6, You are always very helpful with your critical reviews of the plans.
1. I agree that the laundry space is small and the whole breakfast/mud/pwdr/laundry area can be improved. The breakfast area is challenging because of its connection to so many different things. We may need to remove the right side of cubbies, desk, shelves, to simplify the design and to allow better flow. I will also be working on the kitchen layout.
2. It is about 6.5ft from the cooktop to the prep sink. Maybe I can move the prep sink upward a little bit to shorten the work triangle travel.
3. For us to have access to the storage under staircase landings, the WIC is placed closer to the bedroom. The toilet is now far away from the master bedroom. If we have to live with that, I am ok to be on the disadvantaged side :).

Attached is a revised main floor plan from the architect (without my inputs yet as I am waiting for 2nd floor).

Does the HVAC have to be in that spot? It seems to be a prominent location that could be used for something else. I'd like to see the HVAC tucked into the back of the pantry (maybe with bifold doors) where it's closer to the outside AC units anyway. Then in the spot where the HVAC is currently shown, make that a butler pantry or bar area to lead into the dining room. That will be a nice spot for getting drinks and/or putting food en route from the kitchen into the DR. The pantry could then come farther out to the left so you don't sacrifice space there.

I realize this changes your kitchen config on that bottom wall, but it might be handier than having the HVAC closet where it is now. I mocked it up to show what I mean. But I'm by no means knowledgeable about HVAC so I don't know if this is possible.

What you have now still is not a 'budget' house to build. Every corner that deviates from a box is an extra that you pay for. Each extra jog/bump out should have an esthetic reason for doing so as it relates to the exterior esthetics of the house and/or added function; the pantry and garages have bump outs without any added benefit from that. (ie added cost for pantry bump out. Not a good way to spend your money)

You created a recess from the wall to give a place for a/c (that is what it looks like) Again, that can be done with landscaping much cheaper that what you got there

Each bump out should give you a functional or esthetic value: ie a corner window, a little reading nook, recessed entry, etc.

@Chicagoans, Thank you for your suggestions on relocating the HVAC from a prominent location to a less visible place. I like your mockup drawing. The butler’s pantry in the hallway shall be very useful and it makes a much better flow between the kitchen and the dining.

Only thing that I am not sure is the possible requirements on a HVAC closet. There might be some issues on how to do the air intake opening on the main floor and the AC ducting to second floor from the exterior wall location. I will present the idea to the architect to see if this is doable.

@Kaismom, Yes. The extra corners / bump outs will cost more to build. I also agree that it is important to make sure that the added cost is well justified for functional and/or aesthetic reasons.

What I don’t know is how significant are the extras. I am very transparent on budget with the architect. I am getting concerned about the budget as the current design has 2200sqft on main floor and 1100sqft on second which is already 10% over my original plan of a 3000sqft house. I was told by the architect that my budget sounds good and we would be able examine the cost more closely after we take care of the design first.

I hope we will find ways of ‘cutting corners’ if we need to do that later. For example, I don’t see why most the west side wall can’t be aligned (the garage may still need to bump out, otherwise it will block some views into the backyard from breakfast). Most of the front walls could also be leveled except for the study/music bumping out.

Yeah, hopefully the architect has gone beyond the plan even if he hasn't shared it with you, or if only in his head and not on paper...because I can't begin to imagine the roofs or elevations for this. If you're still going to go on faith and focus on the plan, push to get the rest of your fixtures in the master bath, and furniture in the study and great room so you have a better idea of how those might work. I hope the second floor is keeping up in terms of development.

I'm hesitant to provide any other comments on the nuances of the plan as I suspect once the elevations and roof plan are drawn there will be something pushing back against the plan. But big picture: I think with the very short jogs in the footprint you're missing some opportunities to get light from two sides into rooms like the study and great room. If you really think you're going to have a sitting area in your bedroom, put some seating there...or maybe pull that part back to permit a window on the side wall of the great room. Maybe this has been asked/answered already--why no windows in the master bathroom, especially on the main elevation? If there are privacy or view issues for the master bathroom or for the bedroom, these can be addressed in a number of ways...through glass options, window treatments, higher sills, landscape elements. Something to consider.

Especially if you are really limited with hours, I'd tell the architect I don't want to see another plan before seeing even a single napkin sketch of something that's NOT a floor plan. I'm highly skeptical that anyone can nail down the perfect plan and then not want to change it a little (or completely start over) in response to some issues revealed through study of the other views, or other systems--especially structural and hvac. I'm convinced you'll be more satisfied with the results if the process is not just a checklist of drawings to be done in sequence. I'd not want to see you settling for a mediocre or fatally flawed exterior because you've run out the clock and your design money on the floor plans, or because you're so invested in a plan that you're afraid of breaking it.

Also, we're trying to practice preventative medicine so in a few months you're not posting photos of already built wonky roof conditions or squat transoms! Keep at it, and good luck!

I just received some updates from the architect regarding the second floor layout and some perspective views of the 3D volume.

I understand that it is very rough as some windows are missing. It does present some general concept of the house at this early stage of the design. I am trying to understand the big picture here.

Any comments and suggestions? Thanks, Jf

Here goes the 2nd floor plan

Front view

Side view

Rear view

Dadereni and Renovator,

Could you please take a look at the 3D views of the rough house design and let me know your thoughts? Many thanks! Jf

Well, it looks much better than it did.

The biggest problem remains the kitchen. As it's drawn now, it's not going to be a functional kitchen that "works well". In spite of having ample space, everything's too far apart. You're trying for maximum cabinet space . . . but that's not the same thing as a good working floorplan.

Specific things I see that will be difficult:
- The refrigerator location is inconvenient for drink refills to the dining room, and since it's wedged into that little spot, the door won't open all the way, making it difficult to remove the shelves for cleaning. I live with this problem right now, and it's not a dealbreaker, but it's aggravating.
- Your clean-up sink is located at the front of the kitchen. So as you do your cooking prep in the middle island, you'll have to walk around that island to put things into the sink . . . and your dirty dishes will always be "on display".
- The person doing clean-up will be walking all the way to the back wall, around the middle island, to tote things to the clean-up sink /dishwasher area. This makes a job that most of us dislike into even more of a chore. Then, since you don't have storage near the dishwasher, you're going to have to carry them all back again. Unless you consider this a double purpose room -- kitchen AND exercise room -- you're going to grow tired of this in a hurry.
- The floor space necessary to walk around one island is rather large . . . and you have two.
- Cabinets and countertops are very expensive, and since your kitchen is visible to your great room, you're not going to want to scrimp here . . . but since you're already concerned about budget, the reality is that this quantity may force you to choose budget-grade items, and that's going to negate the idea of the grand kitchen you're trying to build with the two islands, etc.

Two suggestions for the kitchen:

1. Just get rid of one island. This'll simplify your plan, and although you'll lose counterspace, you'll increase efficiency.

Benefits: You'll lose the barrier island problem, and you'll still have enough kitchen space.

2. A more complicated option: Redo the kitchen's footprint. Turn it the other direction, and make it an L with an island. Make the wall that currently holds the refrigerator into the long cabinet wall (this is the long leg of the L) and keep the short end of the L against the wall. Insert an island into the crook of the L. Bring the whole thing forward (towards the front door), making a more narrow kitchen.

Benefits: The barrier island problem will disappear, and you'll have all your work spaces in one easy-to-reach area. This more narrow configuration will open up quite a bit of space for the laundry and powder room, yet you'll lose NO counterspace -- you'll be losing the useless walkways between the duplicate islands.

I'll echo what Kaismom said: This is not a budget plan. Not at all. I see four big reasons:

- The jogs around the edges are expensive, yet they add no real purpose to the floorplan. I'll echo what Kaismom said: A jog in the exterior isn't a bad thing, but it should serve a purpose -- it should create a nook, capture a view, or something else positive. It should not exist just for the sake of existing. Look at the master bedroom, for example: For the cost of building that "indent" and that little corner cut-out (which makes no sense at all), you could extend the master out to the same size as the great room.

- This one hasn't been mentioned yet, but you're well beyond the size of standard trusses (is it 32'? Someone else chime in here), which means you're going to have to have custom supports built . . . for the whole house.

- The roof is going to be incredibly expensive. The plans really look like multiple small roofs. Yeah, it's a cool-looking roof, but does that genuinely enhance your family's life?

- The curve by the breakfast room is going to be expensive. I mention this only because you're already concerned about budget, and this is going to be a big line item. I do think it's a neat little feature, and since it's visible from the kitchen and the great room, I think it'll give you a lot of "bang for the buck". I'd look at keeping this one, but recognizing it as a splurge.

- The roof is going to be incredibly expensive.

Really? Complex roofs like that are common here in DFW. Even for new $250k houses.

Wow, I counted 13 sides on the second floor roof! Of course I live in a one story with a walk out basement and we have a peaked roof on the house and one on the garage.

I agree with MrsPete regarding the two islands in the kitchen. Two islands can work, but I think they take a lot of planning to make them function properly. I disagree with her regarding the refrigerator though. Since the dining room is positioned away from the great room and the breakfast area, whether the refrigerator will function well in that position depends on how the OP plans on using those rooms. If they will normally be eating at the breakfast table and only use the dining room for special occasions, then the current position will work well. Our refrigerator is at the end of a cabinet run and we have no problem opening the doors all the way and taking out the drawers for cleaning. You just have to make sure the wall on the side of the refrigerator is not too far forward.

What size are your master bathroom and closet? We have that same configuration of hall with closet and bathroom at the end and like it a lot.

I don't care for the upstairs layout. The hall bathroom is on the opposite side of the floor from the two bedrooms it serves. I wonder if it would be possible to move it next to bedroom 3 and make the game room wing smaller?

It's great to see the start of some 3D studies. Yes, these roofs are common. It is actually too inexpensive and easy to build such complex roof forms. If it were harder to do then more people might do it with more thought. I'm not sure what the intent is on the exterior. It may just be a consequence of the plan. The massing and roof plan seems unnecessarily complex. Having a few different masses could be a nice thing, maybe if some were different heights. Hard to say without further study.

As an exercise, if I were doing it I might try designing for a bit from the outside-in. Just put the plan out of mind and model what you'd want to see on the exterior. You've been doing this with the plan without too much regard to the exterior. Now do the reverse and see what you come up with.

A covered outdoor place can be a nice thing, but you have a large and deep porch and an attached garage on the whole south side of your house. Be aware that it might be quite dark inside your great room and kitchen for most of the year. This looks like Sketchup--you should be able to study the sun for different times of the day and of the year. Sketchup will only show you the direct sunlight and cast shadows though, not the effects of light bouncing around. Which part of the country are you in? An alternative would be to have a separate covered pavilion in your backyard for outdoor dining (perhaps with stone pillars and pyramidal roof to complement the house), also maybe a detached garage pushed toward the rear. Roof overhangs sufficient to block summer sun, beyond that you're really cutting down on your daylight for the areas you'll be in during the daytime.

I haven't talked to the architect regarding his 2nd floor plan and 3D views yet.

Earlier in the process of designing main floor layout and forseeing things for 2nd floor, the architect had told me that the great room will have vaulted high ceiling (but not as tall as a two story GR) and he would make the laundry chute easiler.

While I aaprciate that has been accomplished in the latest design, my biggest complaint is that the long hallway distance from bedroom 2 and 3 to the shared bath. The stair railing on the way makes things worse to me. I don't think it would be good for my small sons (9 and under) to do that on a daily basis.

Revisting my original draft plan of 1.5 story room placement, I did a quick sketchup model of the house. I used only 3 roof surfaces to cover the two story part of 2nd floor (to the left of the front entrance part) and the one story structures (DR,Kitchen, Laundry, PR, Garage).

It is just an exercise that I did at the suggestion of Dadereni. I have to say that I am new to skechup and I do not know much about roofing, building, or styles whatever. The model is very rough and incomplete (the curved breakfast ceiling not covered yet). I do know what I need for the 2nd floor layout to make it acceptable to a comfortable living.

I am trying to see if there is any merit in this design. I will talk witht he architect by tomorrow. Let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks!

Attached is the front view.

This post was edited by jeff2013 on Thu, Jul 11, 13 at 17:08

Side view

Back view

FYI, this is the original 2nd floor layout. It is the 1.5 story concept that I mentioned earlier. In the 3D mockup models, I assume that we can use the same room placement methods but I have not checked the dimensions or made any alignments on the architect's latest main floor plan.

Again, the architect is asking me if he could proceed.

Thanks! Jf

@MrsPete, Thank you so much for your suggestions on the kitchen layout. The kitchen along with its surrounding (laundry, pwdr, breakfast) is the biggest area to be improved on the main floor.

Yes. The complicated roofs and the many jogs. Thanks for that. I will keep quizzing the architect about the cost and hope we find a less expensive way if any to build it. I need to make sure we can do it within our budget.

@jrldh, Good to know that. I am building in Texas and summer heat is a big concern for me.

@dekeoboe, Yes. That bathroom location is not going to work for us. Good eye. I had it close to bedroom 3 above the GR in my draft plan to the architect. See posts above.

@dadereni, Thank you so much. I like your top down design strategy. I just don’t know how to do it. I gave it a try and I am not sure if it looks funny or that is possible to be built at all. I am still digesting your ideas and will pass them to the architect.

Revised floor plans.

1. 2nd floor bath moved from game room. It is now between the two boys bedrooms.

2. Slightly different layout of the kitchen.

My next step is to see if it is possible to cut the total living area by about 150sqft. I am sitll not satisified with the kichten. I am bringing the issue to the kitchen forum also. I would like to see if we could make it work or need a new layout.

Thanks! Jf

The architect told me he would not rework the rooflines until the the floor plans are finalized first.

When I asked him to see if we could place the shared bathroom close to bedroom 3 over the great room, he came up with a solution of rotating it 90 degree and placing it close to the hallway. Attached is the section of the great room. As I do not like the idea of having 2 different ceilings in the great room in that proposal, we decided on the current bathroom locations.

I understand that no rooms over the great room and the dining area would allow vaulted ceiling (indicated as prefered ceiling line in the drawing) in the great room and also windows to provide natural light to the staircase area.

Repeated post deleted

This post was edited by jeff2013 on Tue, Jul 16, 13 at 16:16

Revised floor plan.

The total living area has been reduced by about 200sqft. I am OK with the general design and I would really like to see things move forward.

In the meantime, there are some issues about the kitchen layout for improvement. I posted it over the kitchen forum ad received excellnt feedbacks there too.

The sqft of the house has been reduced to a number that I feel comfortable with. I am OK with the overall design. While I am still do not like the kitchen layout, I am trying to see if things can work out by staying within the footprints of the house.

Here is a modified layout of the area that I did.

1. One side of the mudroom cubbies and the desk were taken out. That will give more space to laundry/pwdr and help with the garage entrance hall.

2. I like the idea of keeping the main sink/dw on the side (as opposed to the serving island). I just moved it to the side close to the breakfast area instead of the HVAC side. That will give us bettter view to the backyard and keep sight on kids going up/down on the stairs.

3. I am not sure about the frige/oven placement.

a) I tried to switch the two. That will need a foot clearance from the fridge to the pantry wall and we can do storage outside/inside the pantry. A well defined work triangle may help the work. However, it may be a little bit cramped there.

b) The current configuration may help the space a ittle bit as we are not baking that often. My biggest concern is we do not have a good triangle now. The cooktop to the frige distance is over 11ft. We do have an island as a landing space in the middle. Not sure how bad is that.

I don't want to get stuck with the details so I let the archiec to proceed with the design. I do have some questions regarding issues beyond floor plans. But I will seek answers/help with new posts. This thread is getting too long.

As always, thanks everyone for your reading and reviews! Jf