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Subs.....pulling my hair out

JMphoto
12 years ago

Is it just us or did everyone have problems with subs showing up to work? It seems like no one wants to work. Our GC is there just about every day, but getting the subs there is another thing. I had him fire the scheduled drwallers after they did not show for over 3 weeks of "we are coming tomorrow" and they never did. Now the stone guys are at it since before memorial day. They come one day and then disappear for a week or two. I want to fire them too. Am I just too impatient or is this the norm?

Comments (15)

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Since you are NOT a continuing source of work, your job is at the bottom of the list.

  • sierraeast
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's not your job to fire anyone but the G.C. who is ultimately responsible for all subs and keeping the project on schedule within reasonable bounds. Your subs actions are way out of being reasonable and your G.C should have replaced them long ago. If you want to put the heat on anyone, put it on your G.C.

  • bus_driver
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When people are paid affects their work schedule. When I managed a company, we had the best employee attendance by paying on Monday. No hold back for a week like some do. Whatever work they did in the previous week was paid on the following Monday. Monday work attendance was good and fewer hangovers than if paid on Thursday or Friday. Could the GC work out something like this?

  • marie_ndcal
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We built similiar to Bevengal. Hubby was GC because we had built before, also worked as building official for a very large county, etc.
    Nothing came on the property without a paid receipt. Bevengal has some excellent ideas..

  • lazypup
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Quote "Maybe once the building industry really picks back up again, subs won't be willing to accept jobs with conditions like mine"

    Perhaps they don't get news & weather reports where you live but with the amount of tornadoes, floods, forrest fires and other disassters that have happened lately nearly all the qualified skilled workers in my area have gone off to work on FEMA jobs. In the last 6 weeks just rounding up a crew for the day is like pulling teeth.

  • RestoreGuy64
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One of my businesses is as a GC and even though my region of the country is better than most for construction work, I have never seen it this bad in 25 years. I'm heavily involved with a seven figure remodel and almost every trade is far more problematic then I can ever remember. Many of these subs I have known and done business with for ten or fifteen years.

    This economy, housing market, banking mess and all the garbage going on in D.C. is crushing companies that once served this industry very well.

    The national unemployment rate may be between 9% - 10% (I believe it's much higher if you compare apples to apples) but it's probably 4 to 5 times higher in the residential construction industry. Those that are still employed in this industry are making far less money than just a few years ago.

    Companies have downsized and many owners are no longer just running the company but they are also doing the work in the field. Customer service is at an all time low as business owners are in the field and no longer just in the office servicing their customers.

    Most supply houses don't stock the quantities of material as before because nothing is selling. So materials are ordered on an as need basis which takes weeks or months when it used to be immediate. Manufacturers are not stocking the quantities of building materials either and for the same reasons.

    Companies are closing their doors and going out of business and bills to suppliers are not getting paid. Therefore, supply houses have dramatically restricted the credit they gave to the subcontracts and G.C's.

    Lines of credit from the banks that companies used to be able to rely on to keep their businesses rolling are not there anymore. Money is job to job which slows down everything.

    These are just some of the many problems in our industry at this time and I could write many more. Unfortunately with the excess inventory of real estate, the global economic and financial mess and incompetent politicians in Washington, these problems are going to be with us for many years to come. If you want any type of residential construction done these days, be prepared for headaches.

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is pretty bad all around.

    I have not had steady work for most of my subs for almost a year now.

    I laid off an entire crew six months ago (6 guys).

    The uncertainties in the market have made me (and plenty of others) pull back from risks.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    hmmm LazyPup.... I do know about all the tornados, floods, forest fires, etc. and I'm sure a lot of skilled tradesmen have headed to those areas to find work. But, today alone on Craigslist.com for my local area, there have been well over 200 NEW postings from people looking for work in the skilled trades.

    Everything from roofing contractors, to plumbing contractors, to framers, to fence building, to deck building, to dozer operators, to painters, to tile-guys, to master electricians. In the past week, there have been close to a thousand such "work wanted" postings.

    You name the job that needs to be done in building a house and there are at least a half dozen people who have posted an ad on craigslist in the past week looking to do that job.

    Obviously some of the people advertizing aren't actaully skilled and some are fly-by-night operators. So one must use care in hiring. But THAT has always been true.

    At least in my area (despite floods, tornados, forest fires, etc.) crews are still competing to get the available jobs. In fact, one of the reasons crews willl disappear from one job half-way thru is that if they get a chance to bid another job and get hired for that second one, they'll leave the first job without notice to show up at the second job site just long enough along to "lock in" that customer as well.

    As a homeowner, your job is top priority UNTIL they've done just enough work that you are "locked in" and don't feel you can go elsewhere. Once you'er locked in (especially if you've paid the crew more money than they have done work on your home), you become bottom priority. Their top priority is locking in new jobs. Second priority is finishing the jobs they are doing for big builders who are likely to send them more work. Last place priority is finishing the little one-off jobs.

    Those small jobs become their insurance that they will still have some work to do if/when EVERYTHING else dries up... and that is when you can expect that your job will finally get completed.

  • sierraeast
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can't expect a sub to operate on a "job by job" basis. It's up to the sub to schedule the projects in a manner that keeps them busy as well as their customers or builders happy. A lot happens that is unforseen such as weather, supplier tie-ups, the project not being ready fopr them, etc that distrupts scheduling, but a reputable sub will deal with that in a professional manner. The "lock em in" route doesn't cut it out here anymore as they are simply sent on down the road. Pay schedules are handled by draws according to the work that's been done dependent on the project.

  • TxMarti
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like a lot of your contract points bevangel. When we built our garage in 2003, we hired a framer who was also a friend. He and his helper didn't show up the first day, or the second, or the third. Dh is the son of a carpenter/builder and knows how to do the work, but he has had back surgery and shouldn't be doing it.

    But on the 3rd day, he got antsy and we had 3 walls up before the framer finally showed up about 3pm and they put up the 4th wall. The next day they started putting up trusses and dh went to his real job. That night, he was looking at the work done and saw that the trusses weren't set on the same marks on each side. The helper must have either been measuring from a different starting point or he was using the metric side of the tape. Anyway, dh spent that evening moving one side so it lined up with the other side and he let the framer know about it so they would do the rest right.

    The next day, no framer. The next day they showed up at 4pm. and only got a couple of trusses set. The next day they finished the trusses and then we didn't see them again for 3 days.

    Then they started putting up the plywood subsiding and decking. After they finished that, we didn't see them again for a week. During that week, it rained and the plywood warped. The next time they showed up, they started putting siding over the warped plywood. I stopped them and told them the warped siding had to be replaced first. They said they would so I left them to it. When dh came home that night, he found that they had replaced a couple of the lower pieces of plywood and sided over the rest. And it was really wavy.

    Dh called him, told him to come get a check and not come back. I roofed most of the garage by myself and dh and I replaced the warped plywood and finished the Hardi-plank siding.

    The plumber left his assistant to put in the gas line and water heater. He did fine with the line but he installed the water heater with the controls facing the wall and in a cabinet with no way to reach them. Dh had to redo that.

    The concrete contractor and the electrician were both terrific, so it wasn't like every sub was a problem, but the framer caused enough grief to make up for all of them.

    That was at a time when building was still good and even getting bids for a small job was hard. Our biggest mistake was hiring a friend, who used our friendship and put us last while he ran off to work on other jobs. We aren't friends any more.

    A contract from our end and not just their end would have made a big difference.

  • sierraeast
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's why part of the many variables of a build is research. Part of researching is finding/seeking out reputable trades people by getting referalls, checking references, making sure they are licensed and insured, and willing to pay a little more for quality help that ends up saving you money in the long run. And getting it all down in writing. Otherwise you experience the above.

  • TxMarti
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You know the odd thing is that our friend had excellent references. Several people in our church had used him and we looked at his work at their houses and it was great, and they all raved about him. The plumber also had excellent references, and if he hadn't left the kid alone with the job, it probably would have been fine.

    I read bevangel's list to dh and he said exactly the same thing as brickeyee. I still think there are a lot of good points there.

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "today alone on Craigslist.com for my local area, there have been well over 200 NEW postings from people looking for work in the skilled trades. "

    And most of the jobs are probably so small that they are hardly worth the time to read the add.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No Brickeye - those are 200 ads I mentioned were posted by subcontractors who are LOOKING for work. I was not suggesting they were ads from homeowners looking for subcontractors.

    My original message suggested a way to deal with subcontractors who start a job and then disappear instead for weeks/months leaving the homeowner in limbo. I then said that, maybe when the economy picks up, workmen won't be willing to bid on and accept jobs that are conditioned as I suggested but that as long as jobs are scarce, those of us homeowners (and GC's) who have work that needs to be done should not have to put up with workmen who bid a job, start on it, and then disappear for weeks/months. Lazypup then jumped in to say that in his area it is hard to get subcontractors b/c they've all left to go work in areas ravaged by tornados, floods etc. His inference being that anyone who followed my suggestion was going to find themselves sitting high and dry with no-one to finish their jobs. My reply about Craigslist was a rebuttal to Lazypup to show that, at least in my area, there do seem to be plenty of subcontractors available.

    I am not suggesting that there is a lot of work for subcontractors in my area. Exactly the opposite - tho I think we may have more construction still going on than in many parts of the country.

    Sorry for any confusion I may have caused you.