I think its prudent to get multiple bids. Some GC's don't tell you why the bid is so high or low. Even if you like this guy, you need to know if his price is in the ballpark in my opinion.

Dangerous in my opinion to get only one price and equally dangerous to have allowances. Have as much specified as possible and only use allowances when absolutely necessary. And labor to install said material allowances should always be in the base contract and not an allowance.

Also you might ask each to use the same form to break down their bids by certain divisions of work. Without being too onerous, you can provide some instructions that will make it easier for you to evaluate bids. But for this to work well you need complete drawings and specifications so that the builders are all really bidding on the same job.

Naturally, those that make a living from drawing detailed plans are going to advocate such an approach but its certainly not the only way. There are as many dangers of going the fixed bid route as there is by choosing only one contractor to provide an estimate and do the work. I feel that aligning yourself early on with like minded individuals can prevent much headache, wasted time and money.

ICFs are fairly specialized, especially to do more than foundation. I generally like to challenge them as being a good fit for an entire home's walls or even foundation. They can be a great system and I think the regional availability of contractors that are comfortable and efficient with them is the key variable.

My feelings based on our region is that they are overly expensive and dont provide enough performance to justify their much higher cost. The R values arent that great, there is little thermal mass benefit, and they can take a lot of time and labor. In our area, pre-cast concrete panels have driven most of the ICF companies out of business because they are more affordable, much quicker, more code friendly, and have a better warranty and track record.

I think even traditional poured walls with insulation on the exterior is usually cheaper and performs better because the thermal mass is kept inside the building envelope. wasted foam to the interior. I would probably even spec poured CMU with insulative sheathing before ICFs.

Bids in this business are absolutely required if you don't want to get ripped off. The quote ranges are wild in my experience.
For example, I was just quoted between $1500 and $6000 for the exact same drywall job for a staircase. I think if I would have always gone with a worst case quote, I would have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars extra over the course of the build.

A single bid is a negotiated contract for construction. Multiple bids are a competitive contract for construction.

Which do you want?

Go over to greenbuildingtalk.com and post on the ICF forum where you are and ask them if they can recommend GC's in your area. Most GC's that use ICF only use one brand because that is the one they are used to and won't change. If they do change, they will probably quote a higher price.

We are doing ICF on our new build and ran into the same situation you are running into. Along with that, contractors are all extremely busy in our area. It took us 7 months to get from initial estimate to final bid/signed contract with one contractor.

We would have liked to have gotten multiple bids, but it wasn't possible for us. There are very few that do ICF in our area and all of them very busy. We were lucky to find one that was willing and able to do our house. He has been highly recommended, so we are feeling good about him.

" It took us 7 months to get from initial estimate to final bid/signed contract with one contractor."

Can I ask what took so long? Our favored GC says it takes him two weeks to bid. I don't expect we will sign a contract on day 15, but hopefully it won't be 7 months from now either.
Yeah, our area is not a hotbed of ICF contractors. The local ones have all done a handful of houses each, which will have to do unless we want to pay to bring in a crew from out of the area.

Everyone is extremely busy right now. The GC had a terrible time getting bids from the dry wallers, painters, plumbers, etc. It's been very frustrating.
:(

Be sure you know what kind of ICFs you are bidding and at what R values. Most ICF R values are so low that they dont even meet minimum international building codes for most of the country.

Ok, Brian_Knight, stop trolling in my post. I did not ask to debate the pros and cons of ICF, I asked about getting only one quote from a GC. You obviously have some monetary stake that is threatened by ICF. Thank you for your insight, but you are unable to convince me to go with another system.

It's obvious that Brian knows absolutely NOTHING about ICF. Pump., even if you have to bring in a crew from a 100 miles away or more that have allot of experience, it might be better and less expensive overall.

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This post was edited by Renovator8 on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 20:05

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This post was edited by Renovator8 on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 20:06

Well.. Iam a custom builder who works mainly on a Cost Plus basis so I actually would gain more monetarily by using more expensive products. I would love to build all ICF because they are more expensive and I would make more money. In this respect Iam a bad business person but I dont like wasted resources and dont like to see clients waste money that could be better spent. I provide the information as I see it and if a client still wants to use something more expensive, that is perfectly fine by me.

Iam no expert in ICFs but I am very familiar with the scientific evidence and research done by Oak Ridge National Laboratories done on the effective R values and thermal mass benefits. According to tests conducted by ORNL, the clear wall R-value for ICF walls is about 12.

In the 2012 IECC, R 12 is only acceptable for climate zones 1 and 2 (climates that usually have increased termite risk). For mass walls In illinois, zone 4 would require R 13 while the upper part of the state in zone 5 would require R17. These values are for mass walls only. Stick framing requires higher R values and will arguably be better in performance from an energy and comfort standpoint.

Now there are obviously better performing ICFS out there. I know of two products that would be well beyond the minimum levels (poorest performance allowed by law). I thought it might be helpful for you to be getting bids on something that at least meets minimum energy codes. Many people view these public threads and I think the information is helpful and relevant. Sorry that you disagree.

Brian is correct. ICF is popular on the MS coast and other coastal areas in temperate climates where wind resistance is an important primary consideration but insulation needs are minimal. As you move north, their cost vs the benefit that they achieve diminishes.

Staggered double 2x4 walls will always offer more insulation and be cheaper to build than ICF when you get to climates with actual winter temperatures. In a cold winter climate, you will need to possibly install additional exterior sheathing, or even fur out the interior walls to add additional insulation to bring the wall systems up to current building codes.

There is some major mis-information about ICF in this thread. Everything I have seen and heard has said that ICF is much better energy efficiency wise than 2 x 4's.

We know that the cost to build with ICF will be a little higher at the beginning, but the cost savings that come back through heating and cooling will be worth it. We are looking forward to the sound insulation also. We're close to a highway.

Here is a link that might be useful: Energy effieciency

Here's a study comparing the two.

Here is a link that might be useful: Comparison of wood framed vs. ICF

Seriously? Sorry but that's not a study its propaganda. Telephone interviews by a guy being paid by the concrete lobby? Got anymore gems from the ICF federation or polystyrene association? Even if he didnt cherry pick his samples, everybody is going to look good compared to the ugliest person in the room. Regular 2x4 framing is not allowed by current energy codes for most of the country and neither are R12 ICFs. May not be enforced yet but what side of history would you prefer to be on?

I am sorry I contributed to this thread going where the OP didnt want it to but I think the issues raised are exactly why people are having a difficult time finding appropriate contractors. Iam holding back on my other ICF drawback views.. Iam hoping lzearc will chime in for a more balanced perspective and his experience with finding qualified contractors.

Brian- we are in central California and are pretty certain we plan to do an icf home. You say there are 2 that perform well, would you share the 2 your speaking of? Or message me please? Im currious as to your poin of view on this subject.

Sent you a PM mrsfireman but not sure if it went through..

It did, thank you :)