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lryan_gw

General Build Questions?

lryan
12 years ago

I had some general questions on how your build was handled.

- Were you given or did you request original invoices from your GC? If not, did you feel comfortable with just an invoice from GC?

- Once locks are placed on doors, did you have a key to come and go as you please?

- Who requests Certificate of Occupancy? Is it given to GC or homeowner?

TIA

Comments (12)

  • renovator8
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Invoice submission depends on the type of contract used.

    If you are the owner you should always have access to the house.

    Permitting procedures differ between jurisdictions but usually the contractor requests a final inspection and if the project passes and any required compliance certifications have been submitted, a C of O is issued for the property with the current owner listed. Who receives it is probably not important since a copy of it usually goes into the file for the project address at the building department and becomes part of the public record. You would want a copy of it in case the original disappears from the files.

    I am assuming you are the owner of the property and you have a contract for construction with a general contractor.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you are building under a cost-plus contract, then absolutely, you should receive original invoices directly from sub-contractors. They can send copies to both you and your builder. I know a couple whose cost-plus builder actually doctored the invoices he got from subs before passing them on to the homeowners. He would scan them into his computer and use photoshop to change various numbers to result in a higher value before reprinting the doctored invoice and giving the doctored copy to the homeowners. Of course the GC was pocketing the added amounts AND pocketing an additional 15% profit margin on the added amounts as well. The couple only found out about the fraud by mere chance when, near the end of their build they lost one of the invoices builder had sent them and asked him for a new copy. He screwed up and sent them the true original - and then they found their lost copy. Comparing the two showed the fraud! Same invoice number, same date, same exact products, different charges! After a 2 year court battle, the couple won a huge award against the builder for fraud but now, 2.5 years later, they are STILL trying to collect the first dime from him. Insist that the subcontractors send YOU a copy of the invoice directly. Yes, some of them might conspire with your builder but you'll have some protection.

    If your contract is a fixed-price contract, then you don't get to see invoices under normal circumstances. BUT, you should have language in your contract that clarifies how much you owe GC in the event that he starts your house but never substantially completes it. This can happen if he just walks off the job, or declares bankruptcy, or you wind up having to fire him due to various breaches. The law usually says that even if he is the one who breached the contract, you still owe him for the value of the work he has completed and that includes a reasonable profit. But, without invoices, you have no way of calculating the value of the work completed and your GC will claim that he finished 85% of the job while you're looking at it and figuring he actually finished maybe 45%. If your contract requires him to turn over all invoices to prove the amount he has spent on labor and materials up to that point and then his profit is calculated as a percentage of that, you'll have one less thing to fight over. I'd suggest a formula like:

    (Total invoices) + (X% of total invoices for builder's profit) - (amounts already remitted to GC) - (damages due to builder's breach) = (amount due and payable to GC)

    And, if the above formula results in a negative number, then GC owes you a refund of that amount.

    A fixed price builder may tell you he doesn't want to agree to do this because he doesn't like to keep that kind of detailed records. But, if your builder is honest, he knows he has to keep detailed records because gross income minus expenses are the only way he can possibly know what his profits are. And he has to know his profits in order to properly pay his taxes. If your builder doesn't keep records, then he is highly likely to be cheating the IRS and, if so, he'll probably cheat you to.

    And, BTW, if you wind up going down this road, be sure to check a substantial number of the invoices he gives you with the subcontractors to make sure you didn't get doctored invoices. A call to a supplier that you're just double-checking the amount owed to builder on invoice #XXXXX will usually get you confirmation that the amount on your copy matches the original invoice.

  • lryan
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks-- I am the owner but have a GC.

    The contract doesn't state the type of contract. It was stated by the GC that I owed an additional amount plus the cost to build because of additional concrete needed. So I assume it is a cost plus. We never had allowances or anything so that also tells me it is cost plus. I haven't received original invoices yet but have called the subs to verify amounts thus far. If the subs are hired by the GC, will they give you a copy of the invoice? The only one that has not been verified is the framer's cost. It seems a bit high to me.
    We haven't dried in yet but was just wandering about accessibility before we reached that stage. As communication has not happened with GC since the build started.-- only through email. We have requested meetings but they have not happened. Just worried if it prolongs, there may be problems. Interior finishings will be starting in a month or so and desires has not been discussed with the GC.

  • renovator8
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Read the contract more carefully. It must state the basis of the GC's compensation or it wouldn't be a contract.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A fixed price agreement is one where you agree to pay $XXXX for the house and that amount covers materials, labor, and the builder's profit. So long as you don't make any changes along the way and choose your "allowance items" so that they don't cost more than the allowance amount budgeted, the house should be completed for $XXXX amount. You will not know or care what the builder's profit margin is.

    A cost-plus contract is one where you agree to pay for the materials and labor (however much they wind up costing) plus an additional pre-agreed percentage of that amount to compensate the builder. The more the materials and labor for your house cost, the more total profit your builder makes. The builder has no incentives at all to avoid wasting materials or find you the best deals on materials or make sure workmen on your site work efficiently. In fact, it is to his advantage to bring you the worst possible deals on materials and to hire laborers by the hour and watch them twiddle their thumbs.

    The builder MAY give you an estimate ahead of time as to how much he thinks house will cost but that number is only a guess on his part and is in no way binding. So, you could find that even without making any changes to the plans and sticking with the cheapest grade builder materials available for all your "allowance items," the house you thought you were going to build for $200K could wind up costing you $400K.

    You really should KNOW what kind of contract you have. If you don't and if you can't figure it out for yourself. Go pay a lawyer $200 bucks to spend a half-hour looking at it. He or she should then be able to tell you. If they can't then either you've found a really stupid lawyer or your builder has stuck you with a terrible agreement and you're going to need that lawyer for more than just an explanation of what kind of contract you've gotten yourself into.

  • lryan
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks bevangel. I spoke with an attorney today who stated I have a fixed cost contract. It does clarifies that I'm not responsible for overages unless changes have happened. The contract did not list specs, as in type of floors, cabinets, appliances, etc. So I'm assuming GC can just put anything he likes. Luckily the plans call for a gourmet kitchen (48" frig, 36" range, etc; so he can't just stick any appliances there. I hate to go thru the build without having input; but it's my fault.
    Is there any other way out of the contract? What are some breach terms? We are finished framing and I want to terminate before the major decisions are made. What's the worst thing that can happen if I fire him now?

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You need advice from an attorney, licensed in your jurisdiction (state) or the jurisdiction where the agreement is enforceable which is probably whatever state the house is being built in. What constitutes a breach of the contract depends on what the contract says. A contract can say just about anything. Without reading your contract, there are just too many potential variables. And the laws of the jurisdiction where the contract is enforceable also have an impact.

    As a general rule tho, you don't want to be the one who first breaches a contract. If you fire him without cause, you might wind up having to pay him ALL of his anticipated profit just as tho he had completely finished your house because he could argue that, because he agreed to build your house, he gave up the opportunity to build a house for someone else. It is called "lost opportunity" damages. Everything depends on what your contract says and the laws of your jurisdiction.

    I suggest you go back to the attorney you talked to already and let him know your concerns and ask his advice.

  • robin0919
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    1ryan.....they call track houses here have gourmet kitchens! Gourmet can mean allot of different things for different people. Those items left out of the contract are verrrry expensive!! If you can't get out of the contract, you need to sit down with the GC and cover these items in detail now!

  • lryan
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    robin0919- THe gourmet items are listed on my plans so they should be included though not referenced in the contract. The contract just references delivering a build based upon the plans dated -----, which does have sizes. Yeah, I do agree we need details now. So, I have decided to stop work until everything is ironed out in detail or at least with allowances. I will be following up with the attorney as my next options.

  • renovator8
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So the work is not carefully defined. Until the contractor proposes something that you find unsatifactory there is nothing a lawyer can do but urge you to ask the contractor what he plans to propose for the contract sum. You don't need a lawyer to tell you something that obvious.

    Allowances are like little Cost Plus contracts inside of a Fixed Price contract. Avoid them if at all possible; they can run the cost of the project up unfairly. If you do use them, make them for materials & equipment only, not for installation & labor, that should always be in the fixed price contract (if the scope of the work can be defined).

    For instance the light fixtures might not be selected but the number should be established and the installation for that quantity should be included in the Fixed Price. Same for dimmer switches, appliances, etc. Don't put off any decision that you can make now and get it into the fixed price.

  • lryan
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I don't really want to work off allowances but it looks like that's the only choice right now. At least with allowances, it gives me some kind of idea what the GC had in mind for the type of build. If the allowances don't meet my type of build then we'll have to either redo or cancel. The contract price doesn't list the compensation amount I guess because it's all built in that price.

  • renovator8
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    An allowance clause is the most difficult clause in a contract. If not carefully written it gives the GC the right to bill you whatever his favorite sub charges him because that is his "cost". Be sure that you are allowed to request an alternate sub or a material supplier if their prices are too high.

    When I write a contract I write the allowance section for the owner describing in general the materials (no labor) setting the quantity, and setting the budget $ amounts. Allowing the contractor to do that is letting the fox into the hen house. He would have the opportunity to be vague or unrealistic about the materials and quantities, include labor, and low ball the $ amount forcing you to pay a markup on the inevitable "upgrades". At least try to get the GC to agree to not charge a markup on allowances overruns. A change in scope would, of course, warrant a markup.

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