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loralee_2007

Baseboards BEFORE flooring install? How does that work?

loralee_2007
16 years ago

Our painter/stainer has "insisted" that all baseboards and casings be in place before the flooring is installed, and only then he does the actual painting. DH is a commercial GC and apparently they do it the opposite ie: flooring goes in before baseboards so there are no gaps, and as a Type-A personality, this is REALLY bugging him lol.

After checking with a few industry sources, including our ID, it appears this is not an unusual request with residential painters (about a 50/50 split), however DH is questioning how this is finished if there are gaps after the flooring is installed? Also, what is the rationale for doing it this way?

We are doing maple casings/baseboards on the main floor and mdf on the 2nd story, with a combination of carpet/hardwood/porcelain, and since DH is installing the baseboards/casings it would obviously be easier (and faster) for him if the baseboards were installed after the flooring as he is used to.

We don't have the option to change painters (price too good, and comes very very highly recommended for the precision staining we need), so I'm hoping there are some here who have installed baseboards before flooring who can provide some insight.

Lora

Comments (28)

  • tragusa3
    16 years ago

    they did our baseboards before flooring, and covered gaps with the quarter round. Looks great. My only concern is that the baseboard is now sandwiched between wall and floor which means removal for any reason will be tough.

  • kachinee
    16 years ago

    In new construction, the wood floors go in before interior doors... which then get casing...then the base butts to that casing. You can also put wood shoe in for an even nicer look.

    You don't want wood floors after interior doors, do you? No, you don't want to trim wood flooring around the bottom of the door jambs....really foolish.
    You would never make it look right doing it that way. Also, trim carpentry is a trade that installs the interior doors and the casing and base. You want them in their to do all of that....after the floors are in. Also, you want too see the full height of the baseboard you spent money on, not have 3/4" of it buried behind the flooring.

    There really is no alternative , unless this is remodelling you are referring to.

  • worthy
    16 years ago

    I put the wood floors in last. The floor installer uses an undercut saw that trims the door casings to length.

    I dislike the clutter of quarter round. So I insist on having the baseboard as tight as possible to the floor. That way any gap that is covered needs as small a trim as possible. Where I've put in dark stained oak baseboard I have been able to avoid any quarter round. Ditto on tile and stone floors.

    The last person I want working over finished wood floors is the painter; unfinished, it doesn't matter.

    Since your dh is an experienced tradesmen and it's your own house, where presumably you will be very careful, do it your way!

  • worthy
    16 years ago

    In the method I use, the trim carpenter leaves a gap between the bottom of the baseboard and the subfloor so the finished floor can be slid underneath. No baseboard is "buried".

  • donvon
    16 years ago

    Our trim carpenter also left a gap (1/2" if I remember right) just like worthy is saying. Painter could be as sloppy as he wanted on the floor and we didn't have to worry about the floor getting ruined. We still have the full height of the baseboard showing We put our prefinished wood flooring in at the last possible minute.

  • gardenchick1
    16 years ago

    Our baseboards were installed before our floor was installed also. The painter (who did a fantastic job) sprayed all the trim so the finish is fabulously smooth. I wouldn't want him spraying anywhere there is flooring. He then painted the walls and the floor was installed after that. Our trim carpenter left a small gap for the wood floor to slide underneath hence no gaps.

  • charliedawg
    16 years ago

    Our hardwood was installed before baseboards.

    The baseboards were installed before carpet.

  • anthem
    16 years ago

    I think it also depends on the finish of the flooring. If its unfinished - there is little risk of installing it before baseboards. If its pre-finished flooring, then I'd want that last - after trim, after paint. It would be impossible to keep clean and undamaged through the trades for pre-finished to be installed that early.

  • loralee_2007
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks everyone for your responses. I failed to mention in my post that we cannot use quarter round to finish off the boards. It is just baseboards which have to be spaced correctly so that the flooring fits underneath, but isn't so high that there is still a gap after the flooring goes in.

    Mighty, it's not that our painter is being a PITA. I can't fault the guy if that's the way he does it, he's trying to protect our floors. If he was doing it "wrong", then certainly we would correct him, but it doesn't make sense ticking off a subtrade by forcing him to paint in a way he's not comfortable with. DH has already run in to several instances where commercial building methods are different than residential, but he's up to learning new methods, he's just nervous installing the baseboards as he's not sure what spacing to use.

    Worthy, what you've described is exactly how the painter wants it done. We have hardwood and porcelain tile on the main floors and carpet w/underlay upstairs....can you please advise what typical gap spaces you use for these materials? Or is it more complicated than that?

    Anthem, my hardwood is pre-finished. We really don't have much left to do though so I'm not worried about them getting wrecked by trades. Once DH finishes the baseboards, it's just paint (one guy), flooring install (2 guys), then appliances/fixtures and we're done.

    Thank you to everyone for your advice. I'll have DH read this again tonight for your responses.

  • soonermagic
    16 years ago

    Our real wood, unfinished walnut floors and all floor tiles were installed before baseboards. The carpet will be installed after the baseboards. It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach to see the beautiful raw walnut floors absolutely covered in sawdust right now from the trim carpenter's work. But I have been assured that the floors will be fully cleaned and will finish beautifully.

  • kellyeng
    16 years ago

    See if the painter will compromise. Install your flooring then place paper or house wrap on the floor running up the wall and stapling in place. Then install the baseboards over the paper. After everything is painted, rip out the paper.

    That's how we are doing our baseboards because we have stained concrete and it has to be done first.

  • kbkids
    16 years ago

    We had our baseboards installed before the wood flooring and crossed our fingers that we wouldn't need any shoe molding or quarter round as I really hate it!!! I gave the trim guy a sample of our flooring, and he used it to judge where to put the baseboard. It looks AWESOME!! No shoe molding was necessary in the wood areas or the tile areas.

  • bus_driver
    16 years ago

    I personally installed our prefinished hardwood floors prior to the baseboards. These were the last things done in the house and no one else would be working in the house. I did leave gaps for expansion at the walls, but brought the flooring close enough that the baseboard would cover the gap. That eliminated the need for shoe mold, but did not in any way prevent the use of shoe mold if desired. We are pleased without the shoe mold. I vacuumed the subfloor often. Just before the baseboard, I sprinkled boric acid in the perimeter gap for insect control. Tablespoon, tapped with a finger, worked great. This is the most insect-free place I have ever lived. We saw ants at one place briefly and do have a few flying insects. The baseboard was pre-primed and finish-painted after installation.

  • carolyn53562
    16 years ago

    Our baseboard went in last, but I do not like shoe molding we did not use it. I have seen lots of houses without shoe molding. I disagree that you have to use shoe molding.

  • kachinee
    16 years ago

    It can be done either way (right or wrong ;-) but, over the years, I find it makes no sense to put wood floors in after doors and trim, including prefinished. We protect them with rosin paper and keep a few extra boards around, in case there is accidental damage.
    The undercut sawing of door jambs and casing is not trim carpentry, and the undercut saw does not fit into corners.
    It can rip laminated door jambs and millwork up a bit, especially in the hands of a floor installer.
    If you really want the baseboard to sit tightly on top of the wood floor without shoe, put in in last.
    By the way "quarter round" is NEVER used on baseboard, at least where I am. We use either colonial or ranch "shoe" molding, which is an entirely different shape than quarter round. (The profile of quarter round molding is 1/4 of a circle).

  • kachinee
    16 years ago

    I should also mention another reason for putting wood floors in before doors and trim ,,kitchen cabinets. We like to go under them with wood flooring and then we use real baseboard instead of plywood toekick to finish them. It is possible to install wood floors after cabinets, but is is just another thing that is out of the sequence of new construction.

    Our painter sprays the interior doors and trim after taping the walls and the floor off. If you don't have a painter that will do this, then you have to do it the way you can to get it done. You have to have close coordination between the trim carpenter and the painter any way you look at it.

  • bus_driver
    16 years ago

    Adding to my earlier comments, my doors were installed first. Split jamb-prehung. Painted before the flooring was installed. I used a thin fine-tooth pull-cut saw with no tooth set (Japanese) (hand-powered) to cut the jambs and casing to the proper height by using a scrap of flooring and placing the saw on it. No problem at all.

  • kachinee
    16 years ago

    "No problem at all."
    ----------------------------
    Yes, that is not that difficult, but it is unnecessary work that does not produce a better result.

    Installing the wood flooring does get more complicated when you have to go under all the door jambs and casing and base. It is also more difficult to install wood flooring after base cabinets have been installed (especially where the recessed toe kick is). If you have five doors in wood floor areas, and no wood flooring where base cabinets are, this is no big deal. If you have 20 or so doors and wood flooring in the kitchen, it isn't the best idea to install wood flooring last, in my experience.
    When you subcontract a home, you have to have a schedule with a plan of how to get things wrapped up without calling people back and forth. For the finish, I have the wood floors installed (and cover them if they are pre-finished), then call the trim carpenters to set the cabinets, install interior doors and all trim. At that point, I turn it over to the painters. They spray, and no one would want to be in there working when they are there, believe me. It isn't the only way to finish a place, but it works every time.

  • bexaminer
    7 years ago

    Here is the truth about this issue. The painter (I was a painter for many years) prefers to have the base put in first. Why? Because it's much easier and faster to paint the base. You don't have to worry about protecting the floor and being more careful with the actual painting.

    But that isn't the best way to do it. The best way that gets the best results for the home owner is to have the floor put in first. Why? Because the flooring can be placed next to the wall. You don't have to deal with the baseboard perhaps being placed to low and not be able to get the wood flooring under it. Also if you put the flooring in first the baseboard can rest on top of the flooring and get a much better fit. It's really the correct order to do things. I know, your painter is going to argue with that. But I've told you why. It's not a big deal to lay a runner down on the floor, have a damp rag with you as you paint and just move along. If you do get anything on the floor you can easily take your rag and a putty knife if needed and get it up quickly, no big deal.

  • geoffrey_b
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    1/4 round sucks. It's the 'go over' / band aid solution. You're paying for it, have it done right - floor with about a 3/8" gap between the flooring and wall. Then install the base.

  • millworkman
    7 years ago

    bexaminer, why dig up a 10 year old post for that tidbit?

  • worthy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    To remind me that I'm still doing it the sucky, sloppy, slipshod way! Baseboard first, then the wood flooring.

    I concede that the standard undercut saw wielded by flooring installers can leave something to be desired. One build I had another picky "fixer" patching, filling and painting some of the bad cuts. Still preferable to chasing paint drips. (How come every painter I've used thinks that walking around wielding a laden roller is no problem?)

  • angeliniamber
    7 years ago

    What is the standard gab between baseboard and subfloor for floating flooring and also vinyl flooring? My painter wants to install baseboards and door trim before the flooring is installed, im doing it myself so please help

  • worthy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    No "standard" . Get samples of the exact material you are using and measure from there. Tack up the baseboard etc., double check and then nail permanently.

  • Keith Marlin
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Well after reading this...it scares me. I've been in the industry for over 30 years, and there are pros for both methods as well as cons. Choose wisely as it can affect your future situations. First, one post talks about setting doors in on top of floors to eliminate cutting around casing. This is WRONG on many levels. First if the door is exterior it has to set directly on the main floor, either concrete or subfloor. If interior use a piece of 1/2 inch drywall for doors and for the base to leave a gap. If your doors already go all the way down just use a jamb saw to trim the casing and there will be no cut lines around them. This is why they make the saw. Also, think, if you put your doors, trim, or cabinets on top of a floor and then there is a problem with your floor, you have to remove it all. This adds risk and cost. But, if you use shoe mold or quarter round, then you never affect anything but that part. Imaging breaking $5000 worth of granite because you put flooring under your cabinets and couldn't get it out without removing them. Yes you could cut around them but what if water was involved? Do you want water there underneath where it can mold?. Shoe is cheap, quick and easy. Minimal added expense to protect the possibilities. You can remove flooring without affecting surface materials and vice versa. Sure, flooring installers like to do floor first because it's easier and faster with less cutting. But they don't pa for the problems that arise in the future. Think hard about saving a very small amount of money in the scheme of your project. I will NEVER do a job where the flooring is underneath, I'd rather just walk away and let someone else absorb the risk.

  • Mike Kellerman
    4 days ago

    my new home builder elected to install baseboards first belore hardwood. I would like to know from the pros what would be the maximum gap size that you would caulk, versus telling the builder they need to remove the baseboard? it might get expensive for the builder but im paying quite a bit for this house

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    3 days ago

    Baseboards before finished floor is just pure hillbilly with the exception of carpet.

    If you'd like your tile to tent, grout right up to your baseboards. Awful.