Nothing beats real stone, imo.

Ours is real stone, not a stone veneer. The exterior and one FP are mix of three types of stone the stonemason came up with after I showed him a photo. Front veranda and walkways are flagstone. Retaining walls are also topped with flagstone and one has stone columns.

This post was edited by allison0704 on Fri, Jun 13, 14 at 19:36

Not all fake stone is created equal. Some looks faker than others. None I've found looks that good. I think the color is applied, so it can fade/chip off over time. Then you're left with concrete chunks adhered to the side of your house.

My other pet peeve with veneer stone is when it doesn't go down below grade. Nothing looks faker than seeing your foundation peeking out below the line of the veneer.

We went with real stone veneer and we are glad we did as much of the rest of the stone used around our house was from out of our foundation pit and it matches perfectly. Had we used fake stone, that would not have been the case.

The stone on the foundation is veneer, the retaining walls are the real stones from out of our foundation.

Veneer

Real

AnnieD,
Your stone veneer is beautiful! Would you please share the manufacturer and color? It is just what we are looking for!
Thanks,
Anita

My parents used to live in a small house in a retirement community, new when they moved there. The lower 2' or so of the house and carport were fake stone veneer. Over the course of 10 years, my father collected about half a cubic foot of small pieces that split off the veneer. I don't know why he was collecting it, or how much more there might have been that he didn't collect.

The "stone" didn't look fake, except that at the corners I could see it was only 2-3" thick. And on some of the larger buildings in the community I could occasionally see pieces which were obvious duplicates. However, the coloration was entirely believable.

"I think it looks real enough to be a high class product"

I think yours is an interesting example because it looks very nice but it is also immediately clear (to my eyes) that it is a man made veneer and not a stone veneer.

Sometimes people misunderstand the terminology, similar to wood floors:

Real stone can mean self-supporting massive rocks or thin cuts that are applied as a veneer to a structural base.
Just like real wood can mean thick solid boards or thin real wood veneer on a plywood base.

And then there are man made stone effect concrete veneers which are the analog to laminate floors with a wood effect print.

"The "stone" didn't look fake, except that at the corners I could see it was only 2-3" thick."

--> because it was real stone!!

"Real stone was just too heavy."

--> not if it is a real stone veneer

"Real stone was just too heavy."

"not if it is a real stone veneer"

Silly me for listening to and paying not one, but two structural engineers.

Silly you, if you used fake stone veneer made out of textured concrete (like most) to save weight. Because that is just as heavy/dense as real stone (10-15 lbs/sf - use google for various examples)

If you used fake stone veneer made out of styrofoam or plastic, then silly me because I didn't think that people would use this one a home. Do people actually use that on a home ?!

This post was edited by jrldh on Fri, Jun 13, 14 at 15:37

Oh - I just read you used Coronado stone. That's up to 15 lbs/sf.

vs. 10-15 lbs/sf for real stone veneer: Example: http://www.saladoquarry.com/natural-thin-stone-veneer

So, yes, your two structural engineers gave you wrong info (or they didn't know about natural stone _thin veneers_).

My spec sheet : 7-10 lbs/sq.ft and I'm very happy with the result.

Allora--I appreciate you posting your experience especially since I had just posted about my future neighbors beautiful house done with Coronado stone. I would love to see a picture of your house.

Jrldh--come on...lighten up :-) it's Friday! Let's have a glass of wine and talk about stone. You did educate me on the difference between stone and stone veneer. I didn't realize there was a difference! Do you know if there is a difference in ease of installation?

Thank you for all of the brave posters willing to post pics of your projects. They are all beautiful. Keep em coming. Would you be willing to say what your stone is?

Nightshade--what will your mortar look like?

Love the Indiana Limestone. Hadn't even thought of that.

NWHobart--I looked at this site at the K2 thin stone which I wasn't familiar with. Am I reading this right? It doesn't require any kind of brick ledge or special prep? I really like the appearance of this stone. Will you post a pic of what you are using? Thanks for the tip

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. Please keep the great info coming.

Here is a link that might be useful: K2thinstone

My mason was a bit of a snob about thin stone until he used our product. He was forced to use the thin stone because of weight requirements on our tower. Here's a pic. It is very hard to tell what is full stone opposed to the thin product.

Exterior with full stone combination.

This post was edited by musicgal on Fri, Jun 13, 14 at 19:43

I edited my post above to include stone info: Ours is real stone, not a stone veneer. The exterior and lower level den FP are mix of three types of stone. The stonemason came up with after I showed him a photo. Front veranda and walkways are flagstone. Retaining walls are also topped with flagstone and one wall has stone columns.

Our house was originally drawn to have stone all the way around the lower level (sides and back of house), but this was changed to cut costs (saved 30K). One thing we changed that I still to this day hate was to do a non-masonry FP from the lower level up (also saved 30K). We had to then change the chimney exterior due to weight issues with real stone. I ordered some samples of stone veneer as well as faux stone. Even if I had liked them, there was no saving on the weight. Our chimney exterior is clad in copper with a copper hood, which goes with all the other copper used on the house interior and exterior. Next house will have more stone inside and out.

red lover,
I have no idea how to post a photo but this URL has 2 photos of our house from the Coronado catalog. One of the barn section of the house (stone inside and out) and a close up of the stone. I hope you can access it.

Good luck on your project.

Here is a link that might be useful: Coronado stone

mto: "The "stone" didn't look fake, except that at the corners I could see it was only 2-3" thick."

jrldh: --> because it was real stone!!

Although the obviously-veneered corners were the initial thing that made me suspect man-made stone, I do understand that there are shallow cuts of real stone that are used as veneer.

However, at my parents' development it is not real stone. I stand outside some of those larger buildings (on which the fake-stone facing is 20-some feet high) waiting for transportation, and pass the time by identifying the matching-shaped pieces in the fake veneer. "Now, where can I see another of those stones shaped like Nebraska?" (And please remember Nebraska's missing SW corner when you think of this example.)

These are "random" rough shapes separated by at least an inch of mortar, and were apparently installed by untrained workers with very little interest in fitting the stones together. Not at all like how the stone in niteshadepromises' photo was pieced. No smaller pieces were inserted between large pieces whose sides didn't adjoin closely.

AnitaLadyRose, we went with stoneyard.com and at the time it was called "New England Fieldstone". I think they may have changed the name. It is the real stone sawn thin to make a veneer. They have stone cutters with blades placed at 90 degree angles so they can cut real stone to create corner pieces, so our stone looks more realistic as it actually wraps the corner, just like a real stone.

I'm sorry, but the coronado does not look real to me...at least not in the random mosaic pattern. Perhaps if it were cut into rectangles then it would be more expected to contain the regularity that it does. But it just leaves a different impression.

Here is a link that might be useful: stoneyard.com

AnnieDeighnaugh,

Thank you! so much! I believe that I found it. It is now called Boston Blend Mosaic. It is gorgeous! This will go on my "must have" list. The web site has plenty of photographs showing the veneer in many different applications. We will likely use it outside in selected areas and inside for our wood burning fireplace.

I so appreciate all of the posts on this thread. It has certainly helped me and I imagine others as well.

When choosing stone, it's really important to pay attention to the thickness of the grout...a close joint vs a wide one can completely change the look of the stone. You want to have your mason match the look you are going for as closely as possible.

Mattypies, here are the pics of my fireplace with cultured stone. Sorry this took so long.

Well we got rid of the stone on our project. But before we did, I went through the same thought process.

Me to architect: "If we do stone - I do not want fake stone. And I want it over grouted. And I want moss growing up it immediately. Before we move in." (not really, but I was trying to convey the "emotion" I was going for with the home. I'm not sure it worked. ;))
Architect to me: "Depending on the mason, you cannot tell the difference. I promise."

Also. We are in earthquake land. (Don't think you have to worry about that so much?) So real stone here would prove to be interesting from a structural standpoint unless you did the thin cut type.

All the above may be true, but... I still think I can tell the difference on a house (maybe not a chimney?) and it would bug me. I look at Alison's photo above and just "know" that is the real deal. It feels permanent and grounding. I love it.

But (can you tell I went back and forth on this a little bit?)... I don't think most of your friends/family will be noticing this kind of thing. How much stone area do you have?

RHD makes a good point -- if you have only a small area, maybe that's where you can afford to splurge? We only have rock on our chimneys and exposed foundation, so the two considerations that made thin stone the winner were (1) we wanted to install at grade and (2) we saw a thin stone with occasional dendrite ferns in it that the kids and I just love. Cost was not significantly more than cultured stone. What would have saved us $ would have been just using stucco or siding.

Good luck on your decision.

Michele1973 thanks so much for posting your fireplace. It looks great! Would you care to elaborate on what stone was used, how long you have had it and why you think it looks fake now.

Thanks!

Oh boy....I have no idea of the stone name, sorry. :(. It's been up for eight years. Ya know, it's wearing really well, so I have no major issues with it....I think it's just that I've been looking at so much real stone lately that I can tell the difference now between real and cultured. But, it has definitely served its purpose for us and we always get lots of compliments on it. :)

Pictures you see have the mortar applied in certain sections. We pulled the trigger on a darker mortar color than we had envisioned in our heads. At the end of the day I think it works for our exterior. I don't have any pictures yet of that same stone mortared in a light grey for interior. We chose a "medium" grey mortar for the exterior and it ended up darker than we expected. On the bottom picture i posted the right most part of the picture didn't have mortar applied yet. Thats a pretty good example of the extreme variation that can happen...I personally think it looks good both ways on our project but it can make or break a look...so consider it carefully.

Hey thanks for posting this question.Most of people did not know the the real difference between natural stone cladding and cultured stones.The discussion is going to be quiet useful.

I have sold both manufactured (cultured) stone products, as well as natural stone products in thin veneer form - I can tell you, there is certainly a huge difference in appearance. I have never seen one cultured stone product that looks real. It used to be popular because of its pricing, but now, the price of real granite and fieldstone thin veneers have dropped dramatically, to the point where it's almost not worth it to use fake stone. I now sell real stone veneer products for less than $10 per square foot, depending on the cut and color, and people are buying it like crazy.

Plus, with real stone, you get such a nice variation in colors and veins, some with natural striations and mica specks. Cultured stone is simply dyed concrete, and is sure to fade in time. The stone in the photo below is real granite, quarried in Connecticut, and is sold wholesale for $8 per square foot. Can't beat it

In residential work the term "stone veneer" would usually be assumed to mean a thin stone cladding directly adhered to a structural wall.

In commercial work "stone veneer" would usually be assumed to mean 4" thick stone supported on a foundation ledge or steel relieving angle with a drainage cavity behind it and tied with flexible metal ties to the structural wall to allow differential movement.

Structural engineers rarely make assumptions or guesses so a structural engineer would be likely to assume the commercial use unless you include terms like "Adhered" or Thin". The same goes for commercial contractors.

Whether you use a natural (real) or manufactured (cast/cultured) stone, it is critical that it be installed properly. The traditional method consists of 2 layers of building paper over structural sheathing, wire lath, a scratch/brown mortar coat and thin stone adhered and pointed with standard cement mortars. This approach does not provide an adequate water barrier or an adequate drainage plane and should be avoided.

A better system is offered by Laticrete (MVIS). It consists of structural sheathing, 2 layers of a drainage membrane, a fiber reinforced concrete backer board with 2 coats of a liquid-applied air & water barrier. The thin stone is adhered and pointed with special mortars. This is basically a weather barrier system but additional drainage plane detailing is possible for heavy rain locations.

Cast stone is made with a special fine grained concrete mix with admixtures in a controlled environment that allows steam curing. It should not be compared to porous air-cured concrete sidewalks. Water absorption by natural and cast stone should not be an issue. Of course, natural stone was formed under greater pressure and time and has no artificial coloring added. If you are concerned with iron stains you should look for a different stone. The price difference has become too small to be a serious in New England so it difficult to think of a reason to not use natural stone.

For lightweight adhered thin/veneer stone cut from natural field stone in New England try Stoneyard in Littleton, MA

Boston Blend™ Mosaic Thin Stone Veneer

Mosaic pattern stone veneer consists of irregular pieces of natural stone for siding, facing, and cladding. The shapes consist primarily of triangles and stop sign shapes and the pattern is similar to the mosaic dimensions created from broken ice. Dry, normal jointed, or over-grout looks available from the installation technique employed by the installer. Sold as individual stones not stone panels.

Flat Specifications

Facing Area: 0.25 - 1.25 sf per piece
Size: (4.5 inches x 8 inches) to (11 inches x 16 inches)
Thickness: 1 inch (0.75-1.25 inch)
Weight: Less than 14 lbs per sf*
Colors: Gray, tan, white, beige, blue, pink, black
Flat Packaging: 5 sf box, 168 sf crate

Boston Blend™ Ashlar Thin Stone Veneer

The ledgestone pattern of stone veneer consists of thin strips of natural stone for siding or cladding. Typically it is installed in a dry-stack, but can also be installed with a mortar joint. Sold as individual stones not stone panels.

Flat Specifications

Height: 3-7 inch
Length: 4-14 inch
Thickness: 1 inch (0.75-1.25 inch)
Weight: Less than 14 lbs per sf*
Colors: Gray, tan, white, beige, blue, pink, black
Flat Packaging: 5 sf box, 168 sf crate

Boston Blend™ Ledgestone Thin Stone Veneer

The ledgestone pattern of stone veneer consists of thin strips of natural stone for siding or cladding. Typically it is installed in a dry-stack, but can also be installed with a mortar joint. Sold as individual stones not stone panels.

Flat Specifications

Height: 1-4 inch
Length: 4-12 inch
Thickness: 1 inch (0.75-1.25 inch)
Weight: Less than 14 lbs per sf*
Colors: Gray, tan, white, beige, blue, pink, black
Flat Packaging: 5 sf box, 168 sf crate

When I started this thread the house we were having designed at the time had a lot of stone. The house was too big and just too much...so we didn't build it. But I love stone. Love the first stone you posted JDS. Wish I could take my house plan and have it redone and made smaller. . Sigh.

Still a lot of great info here.

Red,

I can send you the info of a contact we have in St Louis. We usually use them when we specify stone. Try your hardest to use real stone. I hate wannabe materials: I prefer humble pine over expensive and fake composite (my favorite would be ipe) and granite over quartz.

Thank you Martha. I would like to touch base with you again anyway.

This is a link to the real stone thin veneers that we offer out of New York and Connecticut. Prices for real stone thin veneers start as low as $7 per square foot. Freight is available nationwide.

http://www.yonkersgranite.com/thin-veneers.html

Thin stone veneers, made of real natural stone, are light weight (some are lighter than man-made manufactured/cultured stones), durable enough to last through eternity without the risk of fading or cracking, and exhibit a much richer appearance. When an engineer tells you that you can't use real stone due to its weight, they are referring to "full-bed" veneer, sometimes also called "building stone" or "dimensional stone" which is generally 3"-5" thick, and requires a footing to rest upon. Real stone that is processed into thin veneer is basically full-bed stone that is sawn on its back into a thickness that typically ranges from 3/4" through 2" max. Corner pieces are also sawn at 90-degree angles, so that you can wrap the corner of your structure and give the appearance of a 4" full-bed stone veneer.

We ordered our real stone veneer from Three Rivers Stone out of Greenville, SC. They will be shipping to me in Georgia. Beautiful stone at great prices.

Here are some photos of our cultured stone 12 years after installation. Our house is rotting from the inside out. It is literally falling off the building. I would highly caution against using cultured stone. One of the moisture intrusion experts who did an inspection for us said almost no one installs this correctly, even today :(

oh Stephanie...is your problem bigger than the stone coming off or is it just the stone? This is just awful. What are you going to do? I’m so sorry.

@ilovered, It is not. We have had an inspection by a masonry/foundation expert, a moisture intrusion specialist, and a forensic architect. All agree that the cause is that the stone was not properly installed. Sadly, it has to all be removed, damage remediated, and re-covered with something. It's a mess :(

Sorry to hear that. We were just at one of the major builder in the area and the amigo was installing thin stone. I thought the details were the suspect. They installed Ox ThermoPly structural over framing, nailed lathe with 2" overlap, stopping at the corners, the mortar / sand were dumped directly on the ground by the delivery. (guessing was mix with debris). He was hand mixing sand, mortar and a water from the hose to get the consistency he wanted. Nothing measured. We are taking 10' of stone (I asked him about details and he said this stone does not have to be supported.

The stone shown above looks like it was adhered to an existing brick wall. Is that true?

It was not. Some walls brick, and some stone. That is the corner where those two meet.

Argh. This absolutely sucks and commend the post about this embarrassing experience. I think the humble courage will help others make better choices. Recently vented about this subject in [building a home for ages thread[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/building-a-house-for-the-ages-dsvw-vd~5612581?n=49). Masonry veneers against masonry structure is much safer than masonry over wood. This is an industry wide problem with many failures on horizon. If putting masonry like stucco, rock, brick and cultured stone against wood framing, be sure you hire the right designer and craftspeople.

If your house is" rotting from the inside out" then its probably not the fault of the veneer material.

Did you add a weep "wall" behind the veneer? It looks like water seeped behind the wall, froze, expanded and pushed the stone off. You need a weep system behind the wall to give the water a place to go.

When exterior materials of different coefficients of expansion are rigidly attached to one another, they will eventually fail. Therefore, the attachment detail of veneer materials not only needs to allow water to drain, it must allow the materials to move independently. This is why the original "brick veneer" system had a cavity between the structural wall and a wythe of brick 4" thick and the brick was supported on a ledge and attached to the wall with flexible ties. A stone veneer wall was the same with 4" thick stone. I've designed and built many buildings with this system. Designing a tile-like cladding for a wood framed wall is difficult even in warm, dry climates. Some good systems were described in this thread 5 years ago.

I'm not sure why cultured stone would perform worse than natural stone except that it absorbs more moisture, however, the joints do that anyway and in the photos above, the cultured stone doesn't appear to have cracked.

It is absolutely not the fault of the material, but of the method of installation, from what I understand. The walls inside are rotting because the water absorbed by the stone had nowhere to go. The stone on the corners of the chimney are cracked all the way up to the top. There were many issues, in looking at the manufacturer installation guidelines that were not completed properly. Again, not the fault of the material.

We finally got this taken care of. Removed the stone veneer, rotted wood on chimney, rotten window. Lucked out that we didn’t have more damage behind that main wall. After pictures in next post.

And after...new brick. We had to add a retaining wall, because that south basement wall is a framed wall, not concrete.

@marthaelema I’d love to get the name of your contact in St. Louis. Hoping to break ground in September.