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bmh4796

is a "detached" garage a "problem"?

bridget helm
10 years ago

Our lot is 60 feet wide by 125 feet deep with 5 feet setbacks on the sides. I asked the architect to draw a front entry garage pushed back as far as possible and tucked as much as possible behind the house. I assumed there would be a little covered walk to the house from the garage if it couldn't be truly connected.

He seemed to understand this pushed back tucked behind concept, but that isn't what he drew for us. i don't like what he drew because the house/not the garage part is only 26 feet wide. The garage is the rest. I'm wondering if there is a reason he didn't draw this type of garage? He knows our budget. Is it significantly more expensive to have a separate roof over your garage rather than allunder one roof? or is it something wkith the slab?

i would like a 40 foot wide house with driveway alongside to a tucked behind garage. here's an example, but this house is probably much wider. the garage is tucked though

Comments (49)

  • zone4newby
    10 years ago

    Did you mean to include a drawing?

  • kirkhall
    10 years ago

    I see a picture.
    I suspect he didn't do it thinking it would not be what you wanted... Just say, "can we try a detached garage" and see what he says.

    Is it a problem? I think that depends on what is normal for your area. Here it would be a "problem" for resale. But, I live in a rainy clime where the normal is an attached garage. If you are in an area where having a garage at all is a plus (not the norm); or detached are common, then I'd not consider it a problem...

    Will having a detached garage take away any and all usable backyard? That would be another "problem".

  • LuAnn_in_PA
    10 years ago

    " I'm wondering if there is a reason he didn't draw this type of garage?"

    He would know the answer to that... not us.

  • dekeoboe
    10 years ago

    In the picture you show, I doubt there is a covered walkway between the garage and the house.

    Are you doing a one or two car garage? If you are looking for a two car tucked garage, where about half of the garage is tucked (like the picture), how do you anticipate getting the car in the left stall out to the street? The driveway is going to have to be wide enough for two cars behind the house. I can't see being able to have a covered walkway.

    Try drawing it out to scale with your lot dimensions and see if you have enough room for the turning radius of your vehicles. I'm not sure it will work on your lot.

    To me, the house in the picture you posted looks like it originally had the detached garage behind the house and then they added the room on the right, which encroached on the driveway.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    10 years ago

    In our area a detached garage would be a detriment...we get a lot of weather and getting to and from the house to the garage with babies and bundles safely and easily is essential and attached garages are readily available on the market.

  • renovator8
    10 years ago

    For us to help you with this design issue you should show us a plot plan with the house footprint and the required zoning setbacks dawn on it.

    Often a garage can be closer to a property line than a house but not if it is connected to the house in any way.

    Usually a driveway can be closer to the line but you probably don't want a bend in it unless there is room to turn around at the garage.

    If you want to know why your designer did something it is best to ask him/her instead of us. Guessing is usually a waste of time in a design process.

    This post was edited by Renovator8 on Thu, May 30, 13 at 8:42

  • mrspete
    10 years ago

    I like the look of a detached garage. I like the idea of a driveway going past the house and the house being in a slightly-back position. I like that it places the garage in a good spot to store back-yard stuff like the lawn mower and yard tools. I like that a house with a detached garage is able to have more windows. In contrast, I do not like the concept of a very prominant garage . . . oh, and look, there's a house attached to the back.

    If I were going to do a detached garage, it would have to be connected to the house via a covered walkway. That would be non-negotiable, even if the house and garage were close together.

    However, as I've been considering this option and reading pros and cons, I've decided against a detached garage. My reasons:

    - We're building this house as retirement house, and as I look at my very elderly grandmother, I know that a detached garage will become an issue for me one day -- not today or tomorrow, mind you, but eventually.

    - I do like the security of being able to drive into the garage and enter the house without really being "outside". My sister-in-law, however, argues the other side and will not have an attached garage. Why? Because a friend of hers had a group of thieves enter the garage /break through the kitchen door /load up their van at leisure because no one could see them inside the garage. My take on that is that you should have a very secure entry door, even if it is inside a garage.

    - Still on the subject of security, you're more likely to be aware of someone breaking into your attached garage -- you're more likely to hear them. In my mind, however, since most theives steal during the workday when houses are empty, this is only a minor reason.

    - The detached garage will always be a little colder because it's exposed on all sides to the elements, and it is more exposed to the wind. I don't think this is a make-or-break for me, but it's something I read over and over as I researched the topic.

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    I prefer attached garage. But detached is far better than none.

  • zone4newby
    10 years ago

    If I had a lot as narrow as yours, I think I'd be open to a detached garage in order to avoid having the whole house behind the garage. But overall I prefer attached garages for convenience and security (I suspect my kids would leave a detached garage unlocked more often than not).

    But it might cost more-- it's a longer driveway, and your lot may or may not have topography that cooperates.

    Also, tucking the garage into the house footprint can be a way to make a house cheaper by the square foot, but it usually means you get more square footage upstairs at the expense of main level square footage (unless your designer put the garage in the basement level?)

    Ask your designer why the garage isn't tucked behind.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago

    The covered walkway may defeat the idea of detached.

    It would for the electric code.

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago

    A detached garage needs at least 1 more wall than an attached one and will be a whole other separate foundation and roofing project, which raises the expense of that option. It's also a LOT more difficult to back out of a garage at the back of the property than it is one closer to the street. Think about a teen driver crashing into the home because they can't back the car out of the drive properly. And there is not room for a turnaround unless you want to lose the yard completely. Also, it doesn't have any of the advantages of protection from the weather for the family entry that an attached garage does.

    There are a lot of reasons why an attached garage has become the norm in home construction and any other option is seen as a detraction to the home's value even though it's a more expensive option.

  • bridget helm
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    thanks everyone. we are in south louisiana, so there's no basement or topography issues. just flat dirt. i will reverse out of the driveway, so i don't need i am calling him about it today. i'm not good at being assertive. i emailed yesterday, but haven't received a response.

    two car attached garages are the norm here, but i think that as long as there is a covered walkway to get into the house, it shouldn't be a problem for resale.

    I will reverse out of the driveway, so I don't need a full turnaround area.

    i drew what i'm thinking could maybe work or some version of it. i have no idea if what i drew is too much driveway area or not enough. the interior is not working well for me, but I'll leave that to him. i'm just hoping that we can get the garage in back similar to my drawing. i'm guessing the upstairs can't be over the garage if we go this route??

    the yard off of the back porch ends up being 26x56 and there's yard behind the garage that is 26x26 where we could put a small swingset for the kids. The neighborhood has sidewalks, a park,a pool and little green space areas throughout, so most of the homes in the neighborhood are courtyard homes with back alley access and no yard at all. Our city is running out of land that is centrally located to everything, so this narrow lot not much yard is the new trend. We got a perimeter lot because they have more area for a yard, but they don't have alley access.

    PLEASE REMEMBER THAT I'M AWARE THAT THE INTERIOR LAYOUT WON'T WORK ;)

  • bridget helm
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    i tried to keep it all one slab. also, i thought we could leave one side of the garage with a fixed wall and sliding "barn door" on a track, so that it could be used for entertaining etc. i have a track that we purchased for the home we are in now that we never used. it's nine feet wide i think.

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago

    That's a 1 car garage. You won't be able to fit a second car there, and the kitchen will be in high danger of being damaged by a non careful driver. If you do this, the garage needs to be all the way to the rear of the property to give you enough maneuvering room to get in and out of it. Even then it will be tight for 2 car traffic.

  • kirkhall
    10 years ago

    Well, I'd set your garage further back. Why? You need more room to get out of the left garage door of your 2 car garage. And... a swingset behind the garage? I have little kids and I like to see them. This plan will be an issue for seeing from the house to the yard area period, but especially in that little corner in the back behind the garage!

    Just MO.

  • zone4newby
    10 years ago

    I agree with the others-- the garage needs to be as far back as possible if it's behind your house. Also, you need to allow space to turn around-- even if you can back out, other people may pull in to your driveway and will need to be able to get out. You don't want your driveway to be a trap.

  • chispa
    10 years ago

    If you ever plan on selling your drawing is a very bad plan. The problem won't be the fact that the garage is detached, but that most people will not want to have to back all the way out of the driveway. It will be a tight squeeze with a large minivan or suv. Lots of people aren't great drivers and would try to avoid having to do maneuvers like this every time they come/go from their house.

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago

    My little 30x30 house with a detached garage fit just fine on my standard city lot of 50'x150. But, the driveway on the property line was grandfathered in. And I had 50' between the house and the detached garage. I still managed to have enough space to have a garden behind it, but I wasn't trying to monitor the behavior of invisible to me children. Your lot depth is shallower, and your house is much deeper. There are only so many ways to design a home with the issues that you have.

    One would be to not have a garage at all.

    If you want a garage though, with that shallow of a lot, a front facing attached garage is the only thing that makes sense. That's why the expert drew it as such.

    A larger lot would need to be chosen if you want something else. Would it be possible to purchase the lot next to this one and combine the two? That's the only way that I can see a detached garage (or a preferred side entry) working within the constraints.

    This post was edited by hollysprings on Thu, May 30, 13 at 12:33

  • chicagoans
    10 years ago

    I love having a detached garage, and we get all kinds of weather here. It's not that long a walk into the house with groceries or whatever, and I just vastly prefer it to a garage at the front of the house (especially a large garage that takes up most of the facade.) But that's just one opinion.

    I agree that the garage should move as far back as setbacks allow. If you want storage, consider a second floor on the garage (with real internal stairs rather than a pull down stairway, if you have room.)

    FWIW - we needed to work around some space issues when we did an addition and rebuilt our garage. I staggered the front of the garage so that there was more room to pull out of the left-side space; there was room for an internal staircase that descends on the right; and I didn't want one big flat expanse of garage door. We have had ours for close to 5 years and it has worked out great.

    Here's an overview of the shape. Note the garage shape is not to scale as I just drew it in to show it in comparison to the house. The addition (black lines) was done about 6 months or so after the garage.

    I don't have a great picture but the one below shows how it looks from about halfway up the front yard. (BTW that's not our actual landscaping! We returned from a trip to Kauai to find that our neighbors had brought all their Christmas trees to our front and back yards. We got a good belly laugh out of it after a long night on a plane.)

    HTH

  • renovator8
    10 years ago

    I have an offset garage in the rear of my house and I can tell you that your layout will be virtually impossible to back out of.

  • dadereni
    10 years ago

    I love detached garages. But design to suit your site--something may have to give.

  • bridget helm
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    it's a 2 car. the scale is 1/8.

    i can't push the garage back any further due to a 25 foot servitude. can't buy lot next door because it's another 120,000. not having a garage isn't an option due to restrictions.

    i don't see why backing out 40 feet is that big of a problem. no one will be driving into the garage except for me and my husband. there is designated parking for teen drivers and visitors in little lots throughout the neighborhood as well as on the street.

    i suppose i could chop more kitchen off if there's not enough room to back out. in our house now, i have only 18 feet to back out of our side loading garage to reverse down the driveway. after those 18 feet is my neighbor's fence.

    in my drawing, there's 25 feet before hitting breakfast room or whatever room that will be

    isn't 25 feet enough? that's plenty

  • bridget helm
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Chicagoans, how many feet before you hit your dining room?

  • worthy
    10 years ago

    What a dreadful space waster--a long difficult-to-navigate driveway that, incidentally, isn't cheap to pave and maintain.

    I actually owned a house with this setup. But since access was only via a mutual drive, there wasn't any choice. The space behind the garage was a no-man's land that the previous owner filled with truckloads of junk.

    We all understand the aversion to overwhelming garages. But this isn't the answer. But, hey, it's your project and you get to have the designer do what you tell him.

  • chicagoans
    10 years ago

    The lower left corner of the right side of the garage is 29' from the upper right corner of the DR. (The two corners actually line up; the picture shows the garage a bit further right than it really is.) The left side of the garage is set back about 3' 8" from the front of the right side of the garage.

    We have 2 SUVs and we park the smaller one on the left; it's also the one we happen to use much more (it's a hybrid and the other one is a bit of a gas hog.) It's a bit of a swing around the back of the house, but so far my 16 y.o. daughter hasn't hit the house. (Having the back up alert probably helps.) We'll see what happens when my son starts driving. eek.

    We have about 6' (maybe a bit more) behind the garage that has come in handy: there is a row of hedges at the very back and an area about 4' deep that runs the length of the garage. This area is bordered by 5x5 boards and filled with roundish pebbles; we trained the dog to 'go' there so he doesn't wreck the rest of the lawn.

    For us, this set up is not "a dreadful waste of space" and it suits us fine. I never wanted a house where the first thing you see is a big a$$ garage.

  • dekeoboe
    10 years ago

    What do the other houses in the neighborhood look like? Do they have this type of garage?

  • bird_lover6
    10 years ago

    A detached garage set in the back of the house looks a lot nicer than an attached garage in the front - which is what happens on smaller suburban and city lots, since there's no place on the side for one. Unless the lot backs up to a golf course or water, the nicer neighborhoods in my area have detached garages set in the back, and all are attached to the house by a covered walkway.

    On larger lots, a side garage is very nice, imo.

    This post was edited by bird_lover6 on Fri, May 31, 13 at 8:28

  • bridget helm
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    thanku chica!!! i feel exactly the same way as you about garages overwhelming front elevations. i too will not mind the little area behind the garage. now if i could only get my architect to work with me on this!!!!

    dekoboe, most of the other houses have alley access to rear garages. only one street doesn't, but we get yards on this perimeter street. the alley access homes have courtyards only. the other perimeter houses on my street have front facing garages or L front garages that you turn into.

  • radoncdoc
    10 years ago

    I know very little about architecture, but we thought a lot about side garage and walkway. Here in coastal RI and the cape some of the most beautiful houses are like this. This was what our architect did on her previous house if it helps you.

  • dadereni
    10 years ago

    [radoncdoc, would you share the name of the architect? I'm curious, others might be too, and also to give her proper credit. Thanks!]

  • radoncdoc
    10 years ago

    Sure, sorry about that - Her name is Gale Goff (Newport, RI)

    http://www.galegoff.com/lc_3.html

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago

    That's a great solution for a detached garage. Unfortunately, a double lot of the size bmh4796 has would be needed to implement it. When you have a narrow lot, there are only so many ways to have things work spatially.

    bmh4796, I suggest you take a Sunday morning drive to a local shopping place that will have a virtually empty parking lot. Use some cardboard boxes and some Caution tape and maybe some PVC poles in coffee cans full of sand to lay out what you are thinking about doing here. Try to back out the "driveway" without crushing one of the boxes or knocking into one of the poles. I'll bet it takes you several tries and you'll have some casualties along the way.

  • dadereni
    10 years ago

    Bmh4796, it really does look like you need to make the house narrower than 40' (and maybe three stories if you need the space, and that's possible--to decrease your lot coverage). I think a detached TWO CAR garage is a problem. No matter what, a two car garage does seem out of scale with the lot. What is the rule that you need a two car garage? You could solve this if you put it above all other considerations, but the house and outdoor space may suffer.

    Radoncdoc, thanks for the link.

    Greendesigns, after three replies about cars crashing into houses, I really want to hear your story. Were you in the house or the car?

    This post was edited by dadereni on Fri, May 31, 13 at 19:04

  • pbx2_gw
    10 years ago

    @bmh4796

    I may have missed it but why can't you slide the garage to the left of the house & enter straight in with teh garage entrance facing to east (in the your pic below) .

    That way you still retain alley entrance & some back yard but sacrifice the difficult backing out of the long driveway?

    Our house is L shaped with a detach garage out back but the entrance faces 'north' & the cars enter the in an alleyway on the north end.

  • Brian_Knight
    10 years ago

    From an Indoor Air Quality perspective, attached garages are the problem. The more detached the better.

    Garages are notorious sources of air pollution. Along with all the nasty things that are stored there, a hot engine will off-gas all sorts of bad stuff into the air. The real danger however is a car left running in a garage. There have been many cases of death and an even greater number of undocumented cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Garage air mixes readily with house air when the garage shares a wall with the home.

    The more "attached" the garage the greater the risk. Its one of the many reasons that building codes are beginning to enforce airtightness verified through blower door testing. Most third party building certifications frown upon attached garages for good reason.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago

    "Most third party building certifications frown upon attached garages for good reason."

    Grasping at infinitesimal risks.

    With all the millions of attached garage there are how many deaths per year?

    Risks need to be viewed in reasonable scale.

  • Brian_Knight
    10 years ago

    While the chances of death may be low, the chances of an attached garage negatively effecting the Indoor Air Quality of a home versus a detached garage are very high if not guaranteed. Just as with atmospherically vented appliances, most garage induced carbon monoxide poisoning cases go undiagnosed and undocumented.

    Storage of fertilizers, insecticides, lawnmowers, weedeaters, gas and paint cans, along with parking your car inside of your home is not good for Indoor Air Quality.

  • LuAnn_in_PA
    10 years ago

    Everyone in my area has integral garages... and no deaths.
    But... that is MOOT here!

    The OP is discussing her detached garage...
    bringing up remote hazards of an attached one is deliberately hijacking the thread for your own agenda.

  • Brian_Knight
    10 years ago

    Your right LuAnn, but I thought it was relevant and hope to influence those that may be considering attached vs detached. I understand that this can be a sensitive subject for those that are unknowingly exposing their clients and families to the "remote dangers" of attached garages. I apologize to the OP and those that dont want to hear about it.

  • kirkhall
    10 years ago

    Really? Do you cook with natural gas, have a NG fireplace? That is IN your house. In Washington state, they had the "brilliant" idea to require everyone put in CO detectors in their houses after some unfortunate CO deaths from generators running (outside the house) in a long power outage. Do you know how many CO detectors alarm from garage out-(to in-) gassing? Never heard of it. Do you know what does cause them to go off? NG fireplaces and stovetops.

    It is moot. You should drop it. (And, you seem a little oversensitive to it in this one particular application--attached garages).

  • Brian_Knight
    10 years ago

    Iam overly sensitive of just about everything including hijacked threads but cant help myself! This is not a minor issue. Sorry again OP but take heart in that the problems of "backing up" could be minor compared to the health issues that you are avoiding.

    http://www.finehomebuilding.com/item/16283/how-to-keep-dangerous-garage-fumes-out-of-the-house

    http://toxicfreekidsblog.org/2011/03/attached-garages/

    http://blog.teambobs.com/2012/12/27/carbon-monoxide/

    http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/maho/yohoyohe/inaiqu/inaiqu_010.cfm

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/09/health-canada-warns-of-latest-cancer-threat-to-canadian-homeowners-attached-garages/

    This issue is not moot at all. Iam not saying all garages should be detached but people should be familiar with the science and dangers involved to improve their existing situations or design their new home to reduce or eliminate the risks.

  • chispa
    10 years ago

    Chicken Little ... is that you?

  • LuAnn_in_PA
    10 years ago

    And all that has NOTHING to do with this post about the OP and her DETACHED garage!
    So yes, it is a moot point.

    :::sheesh:::

  • Brian_Knight
    10 years ago

    Nothing? Geeez dont you know Iam overly sensitive? We all know that many people besides the OP glean valuable info from these threads and Iam glad that the dead horse I beat will result in healthier homes and who knows, maybe I even saved a life today with the seeds I planted.

    I think the OP should fight for her detached garage, for the reasons that seem insignificant to some (not to those with a basic knowledge of building science) and would like to add that I find big planters to be helpful for errant drivers. Concrete or metal planters can be attractive and effective barricades. Back on track baby!

  • sochi
    10 years ago

    For what it is worth, I've been told by a couple of different sources over the years (interior air quality inspectors) that attached garages are the single biggest contributor to poor indoor air quality in homes. Particularly those that have doors leading directly into the housr. I haven't researched it myself, I'm no expert. But I don't think raising the issue is out of line at all, just something to consider.

  • stitz_crew
    10 years ago

    As a builder an attached garage is not a problem as long as codes are followed avoiding openings into a house. As long as you don't back into the garage or close the door with car running or start car without the door open there should not be any problems. The air you breathe during rush hour is more concerning. Otherwise I will write how to use a garage for dummies.

    The garage can always be angled to allow access to the garage bay nearest the house. Either pick aesthetics or function when dealing with a small lot b/c it is hard to get both. GL

  • Brian_Knight
    10 years ago

    I think a more useful book would be how to build an attached garage for dummies. Based on this discussion I think I will write a blog post on this very subject.

    The "occupant behavior" factor is obviously huge and can go a long way to reducing problems. However, there is no guarantee that homeowners will operate a home appropriately and its more of a guarantee that they wont. Its a lot like putting an atmospherically vented combustion appliance in a home and instructing the homeowners to not run the dryer, vent hood and bath vents at the same time. At some point, maybe lots of points, backdrafting will occur and even though people arent dying from it regularly, its not healthy.

    Then there is the problem of closing the garage door before the exhaust has "aired out". Do you expect people to sit in the driveway/garage and closing the door only after a certain amount of time? How long? One solution to this problem is to have garage exhaust vents (required by Energy Star V3) on occupancy timers which I feel is good practice but is not foolproof. Again, dryers, vent hoods and bath vents can overcome a garage vent as can a mild breeze blowing from a certain direction.

    Carbon Monoxide is definitely the most concern for falling skies but even idle vehicles and the many things that people store in their garage are not what you want to be breathing inside of your home. Rush hour traffic is bad enough but there is no reason to compound things in what should be a healthy home where we spend most of our time. Iam willing to bet that even rush hour traffic has better air quality than the majority of homes indoor air quality (with wind movement being a big variable). Outdoor air is almost always cleaner than indoor air.

    Iam not aware of any codes that eliminate all operable openings into a home. Weatherstripping is not foolproof either and the bigger source of air infiltration from the garage into the home is the sill plate. Builders that are not achieving blower door tests results of ACH50 1.5 or below have a much lower chance of getting this crucial location properly air sealed or the attached garage separated from the home in general.

    As for the OP's case, most designers and builders would be pushing hard for an attached garage due to the space limitations involved. I would have to agree for the most part but the health factor is another big reason to try to design a garage as they envision it. There is obviously not enough room for an angled garage and while putting the garage to the back of the lot is not ideal, its a sacrifice that may have to be made to fit the design goals for an infill lot situation. Better to have an uncomfortable drive situation than contribute to sprawl in my opinion.

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    Since this is not my problem, I have not read or considered it as carefully as the property owner in question. But I treasure my attached garage (with doors 8 high and 10 wide) and will not ever have another house without it. Yes, I saw the comments.
    For that size and shape lot, a ground level garage with (some of the) living space above it is a possible solution-- a two-story house. There are plan books for narrow lots that are quite creative. A garage could have doors front and back to provide access to the rear of the lot through the garage, enabling a wider house.
    Some of the narrow lot houses are not the most handsome but are imminently practical and thus become appreciated for that.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Plans

    This post was edited by bus_driver on Fri, Jun 7, 13 at 0:22