Any input is always appreciated!

Thanks!

Where I live, the lower end of the range and by the square foot, is usually reserved for Residential Designers.

Licensed Architects here, seem to charge flat fee or % of budget. We interviewed some well-known, regional architects and fees began around $25K for design fees, plus client pays all related expenses (i.e. engineer), and more if you kept them on board through the build (hourly fees).

The firms that seem to charge the % of budget here, are the nationally known firms. They are not necessarily better, but they can charge a premium.

He's probably on most people's 'top 5' list of architects in our metro area (of 5 million people). We may have gotten him this relatively inexpensively (not cheap to us)because we engaged him at the bottom of the housing market.

we are remodeling a house putting a full second floor on it, where there was only a partial one, and reconfiguring the existing space.

we gave the architect floor plans and exterior elivations and he drew them and speced the lumber etc.

he really didn't design per se, and we met with him twice for about an hour and dealt with changes over the phone with his staff. we basically paid him to get permits and really nothing else.

total of around $2500 plus permit cost.
and $600 for a change fee, which well shouldn't have happened it was in one of the changes we submitted, but never made it into the plans that went to the town... things happen.

If they are an architect and oversee quality, you're still the GC, and it ain't a picnic.... some people have great luck doing it and even that is a task in itself. when things are difficult, its bad.

I'm going through it myself as a homeowner GC with help from my BIL, who does some construction, but not on this scale.

Everything is great, with the subs that answer the phone, come when they say they are and get their jobs done timely. when someone doesn't do that, its a real problem to deal with, and you end up having to manage these problems, which both kill your timeline and kill some goodwill with subs, that you have to now put off from schedule since someone didn't do what they said they would.

I'm not saying don't do it, but fully understand who is lining up the subs, scheduling the subs, making sure the material is there for the subs etc

First one was a "Residential Designer" who ran us approx $7,000 for 4623 sqft house plan with 2700 sq ft basement foundation (unfin).

Second one was a "Custom Home Designer" (with significantly more education in home design & construction both classroom & hands-on) who ran us approx $2200 for 2575 sqft with crawlspace foundation. They had 2 rates--a standard rate based on square footage ranges or $95 hr whichever was greater. So we made out great here at ~$0.85 sq ft.

We were referred to another designer in our area who advertises "$1.00 per sq ft under roof" for home plans.

I would also run any plans past an interior designer before proceeding.

Further, as any GC or lead carpenter can tell you, architects' plans sometimes need 'on the site tweaking' for them to work in the real world.

In the early planning stages I was quoted at least 10% of the cost to build by local architect firms. This was not in our budget as it would have put uswell over $50,000.

We then picked the cheapest residential designers/drafters we could find... Bad idea there! She charged $1.25 per sq ft for heated space and $0.75 for unheated, plus some initial design costs around $700. After two months of running around in circles with NO progress we realized we needed someone with more skill/experience/common sense and cut our loses and move on. However, if it had worked out all the costs combined would have around $9,000.

We have since found a GREAT design/drafting firm who we are thrilled with. We are still finalizing the floor plan and elevation but we are close and it is exactly what we wanted. Their fees are $4.50 per heated sq ft.

In addition there are other fees; Structural Engineering at $1.00 sq ft (heated and unheated) and California title 24/Green build consultant that is another $1,800. All costs combined will be about $21,000.

The designer will also be submitting the plans to the county for review, and they have a long history with the county so that is a huge relief for us. Especially since the lost time with the first drafter means we will be submitting plans at about the same time our baby is due!

But our costs are:

$5K Design Fee
$5K Construction planning fee
$10K Permitting

about 4% of final price of house+land

I swear there were a lot of people discussing the 10-15% of build cost...

Did you know that only architects can hire architects as employees? Keep in mind that No one who has not taken and passed the Architects Registration Exam is permitted to use the title of architect.

Further, an architect isn't required to be an A.I.A. member.

Did you know that Frank Lloyd Wright never completed any formal degree and never took any nationally recognized test to determine his licensure? He was a draftsman who "became" an architect simply by experience and because he could. And, he was never a member of the American Institute of Architects.

The use of drafters in architectural offices will not be a surprise to anyone here, however, it is very common for a residential architect to be a sole-practitioner.

I know of no state where "only architects can hire architects as employees"; you seem to have misunderstood that relationship. Usually an employee cannot stamp a drawing for an employer; only the employer can act as the architect of record and some percentage of owners must be architects but anyone can hire an architect as an employee.

I don't know why Frank Lloyd Wright's practice would be relevant to anything on this forum; he was born 146 years ago. Andrea Palladio would be more relevant IMO.

Simplest advice: 1)You usually get what you pay for; 2) look at what other homes your designer/technologist/architect has designed or built.

The OP asked about the cost of an architect. If you want to argue against the use of an architect you should start another thread.

I can't imagine a worse way to design and build a house.

Designers of virtually every building in Ontario, Canada (population 12.9 million) must be qualified and at least pass an extensive examination in the Ontario Building Code; and the firms they work in must be registered.

Are you this rude to everyone? We had a very successful build thank you very much!

You were kinder and more appreciative of the help of architects when I left the forum in 2007.

I NEVER said it was bad or wrong to hire an architect; I NEVER said an architect should be "discredited". My only reason for suggesting the house plan mags and websites was for people who couldn't afford an architect. " I do understand that some people have the money to hire an architect and that is great, I just wondered if some think it is required." YOU were kinder in '07 and I DID very much appreciate your input!

Hijacking a thread is rude and inconsiderate no matter how you spin it or how many others made off-topic comments. Start a thread like, "You Don't Need an Architect to Design a House" and make your case. I don't care who designs anyone's house; I'm just trying to help by answering their questions. Is that unreasonable?

I was also trying to help....can we call a truce? I will offer my apologies to you, I already apologized to topman.
I know you are a decent, intelligent person...please accept my apology?

Your house is interesting. "Folk Style" houses became very popular when the railroads started bringing bulk materials to more people in the 1850's. Twenty years later these simple house forms began to have simplified Victorian features from the hugely popular Italiante and Queen Anne styles mostly in the detailing of their porches, eaves and rakes and these houses were therefore called "Folk Victorians". The Queen Anne porch posts and strong cross gabled bay make your house of this style.

However, it is unusual that the porch posts and bay are the only Queen Anne elements. You can accept that as a Neo-Folk Victorian adaptation or you could wrap the posts so they are larger and square or you could add Queen Anne post brackets or ladder trim between the post heads or add brackets to the eaves and rakes.

I realize the history of architecture is generally considered irrelevant to most people in this country and by the internet pre-designed house sites but to me designing a traditional house without acknowledging where the elements of that style came from would be like watching a football game without knowing anything about the rules or the teams. I realize the design of a house is not as entertaining as a football game but it does last a lot longer and coat a lot more.

I wonder how many "builders" even have a copy of the Building Code.

The only way a person may use A.I.A after their name is if they are licensed. Just making a point.

"only architects can hire architects as employees"

My bad, I meant to say that a business to call itself an architectural firm, the firm must have an owner who is licensed.

I apologize, you're right, I should start a different thread to make these points.

No harm, no fould.

Whenever a code issue comes up on a construction site and the code is mentioned, it often becomes clear to me that the contractor does not know what the code says and might not own a copy of it. For a while I carried it in my trunk and on more than one occasion the contractors did not know what it was (and that was before it was online). I stopped doing that in order to avoid a new nickname.

Licensed architects (also known as Registered architects in certain states or countries), are the only folks allowed to use the title architect or to use the word architecture or architectural in their business cards, advertisements, plans, etc. This law is generally imposed by the section of the government that concerns itself with consumer protection. These are often the same folks that govern other professionals who must meet certain minimum requirements to practice their field of expertise.

Membership in the American Institute of Architects, a professional association, is not required or expected of licensed architects. I have been, but are not currently, a member of the AIA. However often potential clients want to know "are you AIA?", erroneously believing that paying dues to that organization means that one is somehow qualified to practice architecture.

For home design, as in single family homes or in some cases small multifamily (duplexes for instance), it is often not a requirement that they be designed by an architect in order to receive a permit for construction. However lets keep in mind that building departments and building codes reflect only the absolute minimum requirements for the protection of life and safety but are not generally concerned with quality design. That is, it's generally safe to say that a house designed by my pal Joe who took some drafting courses, and got approval from the local building department, is probably not going to fall in the next earthquake and will generally meet light, ventilation, and safe exiting requirements. However this does not necessarily mean that the home will be well designed.

Iv'e been called to fix "designs" by non-architects that had weird things like having to go through one bedroom to get to another. I'm currently having to fix a 4,000 sq. ft. hillside home with a construction budget of nearly $1million but only two bathrooms for four bedrooms, and one of those is the master bath. Since the living room in this home was not large enough to accommodate the furniture, the "designer" drew the furniture smaller!!!

A block away from me, a house won the "Ugliest Home" award by the neighbors association about 10 years ago. The designer had a field day mixing bits and pieces of things he saw in Architectural Digest and pieced it all together in the most awkward of ways, and unfortunately the clients were not very adept at reading plans. Poor folks sold it as soon as it was complete and the new owners spent a pretty penny remodeling it. If I'd known about this while it was being "designed" I'd have given free advice to the original owners, if only to save them from embarrassment.

In my office the rule of thumb for custom homes is 5% of the cost of construction for architectural services, or $10 per square foot of construction. From there it can go up or down depending on different factors. A hillside residence with upscale finishes and a high degree of detailing can easily cost twice as much, whereas a simple yet elegant single story home in a flat lot can cost half of that.

The adage is true, one gets what one pays for.

Carlos

Why would you charge more if someone uses upscale finishes? Because they have more money? What extra work do you as the architect put in if someone chooses high end doors, cabinets and countertops?

Very good question, I didn't explain more thoroughly because my post was already too long, however I will now take the opportunity to reply to your query. Certainly it doesn't cost more in terms of my involvement if the owner wishes to apply gold leaf over primer instead of paint, or wool carpeting in lieu of apartment-grade synthetics.

However, I'm working on a place, precisely that hillside home, where among other things the owner wants a bathtub carved out of a solid piece of marble, a very ornate piece that costs about $90k FOB. Until I the piece is complete I can only imagine the weight of such a behemoth. Another of the many expensive elements is an ornate marble fireplace front with lapis lazuli and brass inserts. Indoor garden with a built-in fountain. Custom made casework everywhere. Portions of the lower floor is polished and stained cast-in-place concrete. Portions of the lower floor retaining walls are integrally colored concrete which will remain exposed as the finish material.

All of the above require careful planning, above and beyond what one finds in standard construction. The tub has to be supported by additional structure, and the plumbing is more complicated since the walls of the enclosure will have body sprays coordinated by various diverters. The body sprays are prototype perforated marble pieces instead of the mundane metal strainers. The marble fireplace is a complicated piece where every element is custom designed and fabricated, not a piece one can purchase at the Home Depot, and the lapis lazuli is a semi-precious stone that has to be handled carefully (in design as well as in construction). Since it is a fireplace mantle, provisions have to be made to address expansion and contraction of the various materials. The indoor garden has to address issues of waterproofing and structure since it does have a fountain and it is over habitable space. The polished concrete floors have to be handled detailed very carefully, more so than if they received a finish floor, since mistakes, cracks and such cannot be easily covered up. The retaining walls likewise require special attention since their purpose goes beyond mere structure.

In this particular case most materials and fixtures have been chosen by the owner who is also involved in the design business and is very sure of what he wants. My task is to make sense of it all and to make sure it is well-designed aesthetically, exceeds code requirements, responds to the context and where possible to the environment, and hopefully outlives the owner and his heirs.

Carlos

In the United States, where I live and practice, it's not common to place responsibility of the cost of construction on the architect. In fact architects who use standard contracts usually place a disclaimer concerning the cost of construction. Here, as in most places in the world, the cost of construction is a factor of the cost of materials, the cost of labor, and access to the construction site. None of the above are within the realm of control of the architect. Responsible owners will often rely on independent cost estimators, or a trusted general contractor to review the plans for cost and to perform value-engineering if necessary to bring the project within budget.

Of course this is not to say that the above is justification for architects who have no clue whatsoever about construction costs, it's just that we don't drive those costs.

Carlos