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Inexpensive "build on your lot" builders?

olivesmom
10 years ago

I've been researching local builders online and came across several inexpensive "build on your lot" type builders. Some of them even advertise something like $38 per square foot- which seems completely crazy for western Washington.

I'm not saying we are going this route, just curious. I know they are not building high end homes that's obvious. But are they total garbage? There's one in particular, True Built Homes, that lists features that seem nicer than my current, low- end tract house.

The floorplans leave something to be desired, all of their ramblers kind of remind me of manufactured homes. All are pretty simple and boxy which clearly cut costs. Also, the interior finishes are very basic for the most part. Of course upgrades are available, I have no idea how much they charge- whether they gouge you with them like most production builders seem to do.

Structurally though, are they leagues below what a custom builder would offer? I know the windows are probably the cheapest vinyl and the roofing is very basic asphalt shingles, but the other "guts"? Here is what they list on their website as standard features, can anyone tell me if it sounds like total junk or just modest construction?

*************

Exterior Materials and Specifications

FOUNDATION

Steel Reinforced 2’ Foundation Wall

6” x 12” Footings

EXTERIOR SIDING

Whole house Cement Horizontal Lap Siding. Our standard siding is our competitions upgrade. (Brand is dependent on regional availability)

Board and Bat Siding on Gables

EXTERIOR DOORS

Fiberglass Insulated 6-Panel Entry Doors with glass. Others use metal, and while nice, the front door often dents during construction..

Man Doors and any other exterior doors as upgrades to metal

WINDOWS

Front of home windows are boxed wrapped, side and rear flush with siding.

Vinyl Windows

Screens are included-client installs them

FRAMING

2”x 6” HF (Hemlock Fir) Exterior Stud Walls At 16” o.c.

7/16” Structural Exterior Grade Panel Sheathing

Owens Corning Wrap or comparable wraps

2”x 4” HF Interior Stud Walls At 16” o.c.

23/32” OSB (Orientated Strand board) Edge Gold Floor Decking

Engineered Wood I-Beam Floor Truss System at 19-1/4” o.c.

ROOF SYSTEM

Engineered Roof Trusses Spaced 24” o.c. with a 4/12 Pitch 30 year architectural roofing, Ridge Vent

Gable Ends Overhang 12”, Tail Ends Overhang 16” 2” x 4” Out-lookers At Gable Ends For Strength

7/16” OSB Roof Sheathing Stapled To Trusses

RAIN GUTTERS

White Seamless Aluminum With Downspouts-Eastern Washington and Idaho gutters are offered as an option

CONCRETE GARAGE

4” Garage Floor Slab

EXTERIOR PLUMBING

Two Frost-Free Hose Bibs

EXTERIOR LIGHTING

Per Code, a light at exterior doors

2-Canned lights in porches (if called for in plan). Some of our competitors charge as extra.

Interior Materials and Specifications
HEATING

Beginning March 26th, all homes larger than 1400 sq. ft, will now come with Electric Furnace package (TBH chosen brand) If you prefer Natural Gas, please $450 additional in your budget.

ELECTRICAL

Electrical Rough-In To Code

200-Amp Service With Main Disconnect

Two Telephone Outlets

Two Cat 5 Outlets

Two Cable TV Outlets

Microwave Outlet. Others charge as much as $175.00

Decorator Light Fixture Package Satin Finish-3 choices standard. Others charge as much as $1,000 for our standard.

Ceiling Lights and Outlets Per Code

Smoke Detectors Per Code

GFI’s In Kitchen, Baths, Garage, and Two Exterior Outlets

Recessed Lights in kitchen and covered porch if part of plan (typically 5-6)

Garage to code

VENTILATION

Kitchen, Utility, and Bathroom Fans Venting To Exterior

Attic Space Has Vent Blocks/Bird Blocks Installed In Eaves At Every Truss Space. No Code Require for caulk.

CABINETS

Kitchen and Bath Cabinets Brand: Merillat available in 5 finishes. Birch Cabs

Master Bathroom-36” cabinets; Guest baths 30’’ vanities Kitchen 36’’

Tile Backsplash In Kitchen and Bath(s) Others use wood, and offer an upgrade to tile.

Hardwood Self Edge included

FLOOR COVERINGS AND HARD SURFACES -Upgrades available

Vinyl Areas ��" Kitchen, Baths, and Utility (TBH Chosen Vendor)

Carpet Areas ��" Living Room, Family Room, Dining Room, Bedrooms, Halls and Entry (TBH Chosen Brand)

8 lb. carpet pad. Others offer 6lb standard and an upgrade to an 8lb pad.

Formica ��" All Counters Formica Laminate Matte High Def Finish Self-Edge( Bull Nose Available upon request as upgrade)

PLUMBING-Upgrades available-one sink per bathroom. Double vanities available upon request

Plumbing Rough-In and Finished

Per Plan: Moen, true ceramic inserts. We refuse to use plastic faucets and you should too.

Kitchen Sink��" 8” Deep stainless steel or white. You will pay up to $250 from our competitors as an upgrade.

Toilets TBH Choice

Hybrid Water Heater TBH chosen brand (50 Gallon Electric) For Natural or Propane additional gas piping and venting cost will be incurred.

All Pex Water Lines

ABS Plastic Waste and Vents

Inside Main Water Shut Off

INSULATION

Insulation To Code: R-49 Ceiling R-21 Exterior Walls R-30/38 Floor

Voids Around Windows/Doors Filled With Foam Insulation

GARAGE

Non-insulated metal Garage door. Add glass for $375

Garage Electrical-Our standard garage wiring come with 2 outlets AND a freezer outlet. Expect to pay as upgrade from others.

Garage door opener included. It will be an upgrade from our competition as much as $450.

Man Door with exterior light standard. Others charge for man door, up to $950.

WOODWORK

Trim: 2 1/4 Colonial Style Solid Wood Stained to match cabinets. We give you real wood, not photo finish. An upgrade worth several hundreds of dollars.

Doors: Hollow panel Pre-Painted White or acceptable Sherwin Williams Color in either 2/4/5/6 panel. This upgrade alone is worth a $1,000 or more dollars.

DRYWALL

½” Drywall and Texture Complete With Orange Peel Finish

PVA Primer (polyvinyl acetate also know as “white glue”) at Exterior Walls

Garage Firewalls Hung and Taped To Code

FINISHING HARDWARE

Mirrors Per Plan

Schulte, Powder Coated Steel with Lifetime Warranty; As per plans; All hanging shelves are Open slide

Round or Lever Doorknobs Satin Finish Kwickset

Towel Bars, Shower Rod, Toilet Paper Holder TBH Selection

PLAN CHANGES Completely customizable. Redrawing fee applies

At True Built Home, we started with a simply philosophy. Don’t charge for things that the client will almost always order to begin with. While our competition advertises prices too good to be true, they are often too good to be true. You will likely have to add $20,000 to their standard home to be remotely close to our standard home. After you do the math, you’ll have saved nearly that much on the house when done. That’s why True Built Home is A Great Way To A Great Home.

***********

Thanks!

Here is a link that might be useful: True Built Home's website

Comments (63)

  • icedC
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm sorry, but do you really expect to be told that your 38/ sq foot builder provides the same product as an expensive custom builder? Of course they do not.

  • kirkhall
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hiline buit my B and SIL's house in C. Washington. Now, they've diversified and are called something else in C. Washington, with the same floorplans as Hiline. Though there aren't "model" homes per se, you can see if they will provide you references. My SIL has had several interested people to the house (esp the first year, when there weren't so many kids) to see the construction/build quality.

    She also heard, anecdotally from the inspector (county building inspector, maybe L&I inspector? not sure--"the inspector") that their house was of better build quality than another building in the area.

    That all said, there was a LOT of work they had to do for that inexpensive price (grading, septic, painting, etc). And, there were some very obvious over-upcharges for basic things... you want white doors and trim? At that time, it was a HUGE charge and my B figured out he could replace all the doors and trim himself later down the road, if they really hated the basic, for less... (They've just kept the basic).

    And, while they are "semi-custom", they are not custom. And, you really can't stray far from their basic plans, if at all. My SIL did change some things because hers was one of their first builds in our area, the area rep did them. Some of her changes became the standard, others they don't even offer anymore.

    So... would be happy to chat offline about that too.

  • olivesmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    icedC: Well, to get specific the builder I'm looking at is more in the range of $52 a sq ft, and that doesn't include land prep or any painting as well as any patio/driveway paving.

    And anyway, that's what I'm asking. What, besides finishes will be different? Are they going to hire sloppy, incompetent workers? Are they using inferior construction methods or materials? When I walk into a high end home in my area I notice nicer windows, flooring, kitchens, etc. But the walls have the same organge peel as my tract house. And the plumbing seems to work the same, so what is the difference?

    Holly: you must have had a bad experience with builders and their "upgrades" or at the very least heard horror stories. When I think back to the upgrades we paid for in our current home I recall it being about $10,000 and it included the following: travertine BS in the kitchen, GE profile appliances, upgraded carpet & pad, one additional room of laminate flooring, ceramic tile counters and tub/shower surround in the master bath, a blower for the fireplace, a NG hookup for the grill and a 220v hookup on the patio for a hot tub. Sure, it would have been cheaper to do some of those things without involving the builder, but I don't think it was so bad.

    When I return from vacation at the end of the month I plan on stopping by one of these builders to find out what exactly it might cost. If the upgrades we desire seem exorbant I wonder about just upgrading the major things (windows, insulation, etc) and just going with the standard stuff. Then after inspection having flooring contractors and whomever replace the cosmetic things. Not sure if it would be any more cost effective that way.

  • millworkman
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They build with the least expensive material they can purchase that will meet code, not exceed it at all. Construction will be buy a large crew many new or fairly unskilled workers and the construction will be barely to code, not a chance of an extra nail or joist hanger. The subs (if not employees) will have given them the lowest price imaginable in order to get the work, they will be looking to make money by doing volume which means time is money.

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I retired from the industry. I've seen all of the tricks. These types of builds are the worst at giving you those limited "options" at "suggested retail value" that no one ever pays. Anything you DO want is charged to you at that "full retail value" and you don't get credit for the piddling amount of the original crappy choice.

    Or, another analogy is the car lot advertising $ 8000 trucks. There is only one at that price, and it doesn't have an automatic transmission, or power steering, or radio, or a carpeted inteior, or floormats. With trucks, you don't even get a rear bumper. Not even a DOT required bumper! When you tell the salesman that you can't drive a stick and want something with AC, all of a sudden you are going to be paying for all of the other standard features that they consider "upgrades". And you're buying a 21,000 truck by the time you add in those floormats and the bumper and a radio. You haven't even gotten leather seats or a more powerful engine! Then, after you're resigned to paying 21K because you actually need all of those basics that are termed upgrades, you go to sign, and you're signing for 27K because all of the taxes and tags and non optional dealer undercoating and prep fees are on top of the price of the car, and that wasn't really a bottom line price at all. And NO ONE EVER buys the 8K car! It ends up being wholesaled at some point and ends up as a parts runner or construction labor hauler.

    $38 a square foot is total BS for anything that isn't mobile home level. Better plan on putting a 1 in front of that if you want to have real world building costs.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Some of them even advertise something like $38 per square foot"

    Look for low allowances on everything, ad large charges for changes (including blowing through the allowances).

    One of the ones in northern Virginia advertised a spec house at around $250,000.

    Omitting the cost of the land it was on.

    If the builder is as sleazy as his RE person (not much of a stretch) they are both bad news all the way around.

    When you clearly demonstrate you are sleazy, it sort of splatters on whomever you are working for.

  • mrspete
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    HollySprings,

    I suspect your truck-upgrade analogy is the truth, and we can all relate to it.

    Or, to give another one, a theme park near us once offered free passes on your birthday. Great! The birthday boy's ticket is free . . . but the other four members of the family must pay $50 each. Then you have to pay $10 to park the car, and you're going to pay about $12/each for lunch in the park. Don't neglect a couple drinks and popcorn or ice cream cones throughout the day, a souvenier photograph, some arcade games. You pay $15 for a bottle of sunscreen because you forgot to bring it from home. By the time you're done -- even if you said no when the kids asked for tee-shirts, that "free birthday trip" cost the family over $250.

  • CamG
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wanted to mention that, while $38/sf is absurd, responsible builders around here can build very nice houses for $90-100/sf. I've been in several ranging from $150k to $300k, and have been impressed by the attention to detail and features. There is a difference between the builders employing bait and switch (the one posted above offers granite upgrades for a $75/sf as a STARTING POINT) and builders who build inexpensive houses using volume and economy of scale. My house is costing about $93/sf. Included in that price is about $30k of upgrades, none of which were necessary but all of which were priced very reasonably. I could have bought the house exactly as advertised and still have had a very decent house. And as I've said before, the builders I've talked to had no problems at all making significant changes to the plans. So while you should definitely avoid someone who says they can build a $38/sf house (I agree that you could barely get garage space for that), don't assume that builders with stock plans and below-average prices are shady.

  • Linda Gomez
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Olive, I think it would be worth looking into. Since you already have experience in building a tract house, you would probably would be able to recognize the quality or lack thereof.

    I would also like to know up front how upgraded the upgrades really are. I wouldn't wait until well into the build to find out my lighting upgrades were not what I wanted. Then I would price those thing out independently and find out the going rate. I do think the stone veneer is high. We can get a pallet of real stone that covers 150 sq. ft. For $210 delivered. I won't be paying anywhere near $35/sq ft for installation. At that price, it might be worth learning dyi!

    Other things to check would be the quality of the kitchen cabs...how thick the shelves are, the type of material they are, etc., gauge of kitchen sink. In other words, get a line by line total. But with your budget, I don't think you need to go that route.

  • edennis2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is an old thread but I wanted to reactivate it because I came across it when trying to research Hiline, one of the on the lot builders you guys are talking about. They offer a super cheap per square foot price. When we add in all the things that we need to cover (excavation, drainage, exterior electrical, painting, etc) our all in cost per square foot (excluding the property price) is about $85. This is a really good price compared to the two builders we talked to. It seems like the materials Hiline is using are pretty good. Before we decided to build with them I called some recent customers of theirs and the feedback was pretty good. So we are moving forward with Hiline. Because there is so little current info on at least this on-the-lot builder I'm blogging about the process so others will know where the surprises are. The link is below

    Here is a link that might be useful: My HiLine Home Blog

  • renovator8
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    After upgrading from cabinets made of glued sawdust and windows make of plastic it won't be such a cheap house. Why not start where you want to end up?

    7/16 OSB roof sheathing meets the building code but it is a poor substrate for nails.n And an attic full of trusses is a waste of covered space.

  • edennis2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't speak to the details of Renovator8 in terms of the attic full of trusses because I don't really know what that means but the cabinets and windows that are supposed to be going into our house actually seem nice. Hiline is a vertical company so I think they make their own cabinets which is why they are cheaper. I have touched and seen them and they seem as good a quality as the cabinets in my 1970's custom home. And the windows are Jeld-wen installed by Jeld-wen technicians so they have the full Jeld-wen warranty.

    I do think that given the amazing price that the materials somewhere won't be as nice, I'm just not sure where yet. It's not the obvious things.

    Well that's not totally true. The flooring and countertops are vinyl. That's definitely not as nice as slate/wood and granite but it really doesn't look that bad. I'm willing to stick with that for now and then upgrade it myself down the road if I end up not liking it. but it's a known factor. I haven't figured out where the surprises will be yet.

  • dekeoboe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I haven't figured out where the surprises will be yet.

    One place will be in the energy efficiency of the home. The insulation, air tightness, HVAC systems etc. Focusing on just the things you see does not give you the complete story.

  • Skyangel23
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it depends on where you live too. Our builder is semi-custom, and while we've had some frustrations with them, all of the upgrades so far have been quite reasonable. So much that we did more upgrades with them than we thought we would, and if we'd stayed at the base grade, it still would have been a decent house. $55 a square foot which includes driveway, standard excavation, lot clean up, all that. Even septic. Really research to make sure you know all the pros and cons. One major con for us we didn't realize is even though we had a lot of choices, we had to use their vender. I was unhappy with their cabinet vender and was unable to go elsewhere. On the other hand, they came out to our lot and quoted us $1500 for additional grading/tree removal. It ended up being significantly more work, with over 40 pine trees needing to be removed and major grading. Because they had quoted us the $1500, they didn't charge us the extra cost, which was over $6000. We had "allowance" in the contract, so they could have. With significant upgrades, including window, insulation, and HVAC improvements, we are about $75 a square ft. Which is total under roof.

    I always get confused whether it should be under air or under roof, since once you go to sell, doesn't the square footage price change to under air only?

  • e2dennis
    9 years ago

    This thread appears to have died but I posted a few posts back about buying a Hiline home. Someone said I'd fine a surprise in the energy efficiency of the home. My home will be completed next week and part of the inspection process is measuring the moisture control and energy efficiency and my home easily passed both requirements. In fact the moisture control measurement was 10 points below where it needed to be (I'm forgetting the exact numbers now) but this was doubly impressive because it was tested in the middle of winter during a rain storm.

    For me, so far, the surprise has been how much work it is to essentially be the contractor on your own home. I thought there would be more handholding then there was since I'm just a regular joe and don't know anything about permits and city ordinances. Or at least I didn't, I do now! :)

    For us, in the end, it will be worth it. We saved $50K by essentially being our own project manager for everything outside of the house. I did enjoy learning some of the stuff I did. I definitely feel more connected to my community as I know everyone in the permit office.

    Our final costs for building the house will be about $104/sq ft. That includes Hiline's costs, the excavation, property line surveying port-a-potty services, flooring upgrades, temp utility services, all permits, water and sewer hookups (that was a big expense), Getting power installed to our property from the city, concrete driveway/patios/walkways/porches, paint (we painted ourselves), appliances for the kitchen, landscaping and flooring upgrades.

    The cost per square foot did not include any loan, appraisal, title company fees, refinance fees for the final loan (we started on a build loan), taxes or our land.


    For more details on my experience you can go here: http://myhilinehome.com/why-build/

    Or feel free to ping me for more details.

  • bluesanne
    9 years ago

    We are nearing completion of our ≤800 sq.ft. cabin/cottage, aka The Cabbage. We have several journeyman builders and finish carpenters in the family, but no licensed contractors, so after a great deal of research, we contracted with Adair Homes to build the structure, with plans to utilize our family resources for achieving the home we want and to double-check quality along the way. Our research told us that this company builds a solid, well-constructed home, but that their finishes tend to be a bit tacky. Unlike many of the on-your-lot floorplans, ours is a very simple, open plan with plentiful windows that suits us well. Instead of paying ridiculous amounts for their upgrades, we will add bamboo floors, a woodstove, craftsman-style (not fake builder grade pseudo-craftsman) window and door casements, multi-light glass front door, 5 panel interior doors and clawfoot tub scored off of Craigslist, hand-laid slate tile backsplash and hearth pad, and other details that fit into our budget thanks to the family rate and my tenaciousness at scouring the Restore, Craigslist and other such reources.


    Construction to-date has met with the approval of our harshest critics, several of whom were shocked by the quality. I don't love having vinyl windows, but they are Jeld-wen prairie style that are very nice quality.


    The downsize is that which comes with building any very small home -- site prep and most permits cost just as much for a small house as for a McMansion, so price per square foot suffers a bit. This is our choice of house size, and it is on our beautiful ≤4 acres backing up to forest wilderness.


    We live onsite in an ancient mobile home, so I am able to keep a close eye on all details and am not afraid to demand correction where needed. Because Adair works with a number of subcontractors, I've made a point of talking with all of the workers so that they know us as people, not some unknown quantity. We've also kept a steady supply of homemade chocolate chip cookies, which have made us quite popular amongst the trades.


    I've had arguments with our construction supervisor, as I think he is used to young homeowners who simply do as they are told and take his word for everything, but we have worked through the issues to a solid working relationship. They did screw up by putting the meter on the house instead of the existing pole, necessitating additional trenching to avoid PUD charges, but the rest has been good.


    We were determined to get the house we want for the price we could afford, and we are getting it. While we have resources not everyone has, I am satisfied with the workmanship and administrative oversight provided. These companies have channged quite a bit in recent years to survive. For others considering a OYL builder, I would say do your research, compare real costs at every stage, and consider not having them do upgrades.

  • rtleitz10
    8 years ago

    Avoid Lexar homes! Other than the house falling apart before one year they did not hook sink into plumbing so a years worth of waste went under the house and caused a serious black mold problem. Had to get an attorney to make them fix and clean up. Never even received an apology

  • smile4me422
    8 years ago

    rtleitz10 . We just met with Lexar and were so impressed, He said they have a lifetime structural warranty. Did that not cover everything for you? I know my sister bought a brand new house from D.R. Horton and her shower leaked into her ceiling and down into kitchen, they never managed to totally fix it. We are also looking at a smaller one office builder, Skagit Design Homes, and my DH keeps saying that Lexar would probably be worth the extra cost because such a big company probably has better quality control and a smoother process. But we don't know anyone who has built a house, ever, so we are definitely new to this and your comment is the only bad thing I've found about Lexar. Can you tell me where your house was? (like which county?) I want to run that scenario past our sales guy and see what he has to say for Lexar not taking care of you on that horrific sounding situation.

  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    and my DH keeps saying that Lexar would probably be worth the extra cost because such a big company probably has better quality control and a smoother process

    Usually the big builders are not a bargain. If you stick to their basic model with no upgrades, then yes you might do okay but if you want any upgrades you'll be paying through the nose. It's how they make their money. So as an example, they say you can have a basic carpet. If you want a laminate floor the upgrade charge will be an additional charge; usually more than what it would cost you to buy and install the flooring retail.

    Additionally a small local builder will probably do a better job, with better quality materials for less money because a local builder has his subs that he's built up trust with.

  • millworkman
    8 years ago

    And tract home/big builders like everyone else are in the game to make money. They build as close to the pass/fail line (code compliance wise)as they can to maximize there profits, building at breakneck speeds as to maximize their profits.

  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    Tract builders are the Walmarts and TJ Maxx's. Small builders are your Macy's and Bloomingdales. Custom builders are your local high end dress shops.

  • bluesanne
    8 years ago

    We spoke with Lexar while researching on-your-lot builders, and our conclusion was that their talk of a higher quality product was nothing more than hot air. As I mentioned in my previous post, these builders put up a good basic house, but their finishes are beyond cheap. I found this to be especially true in the Lexar homes we checked out. I can't speak to their framing and such, so I would suggest asking to see a house in progress.


    A few suggestions for getting a good home from these companies:


    DO NOT PAY FOR THEIR UPGRADES.

    Exceptions for this are higher ceilings and exterior window wraps -- things you can't easily add on or change. They charge through the roof for upgrades such as hardwood floors and HVAC systems.


    BE ONSITE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

    Keep an eagle eye on subcontractors and let it be known from the beginning that you won't put up with anything subpar. Ask questions and speak up. We lived onsite during the build and took full advantage of friends who could check foundation, framing, plumbing, etc.


    STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. True with any builder, but I questioned everything from the beginning and made it known that I was checking EVERYTHING. They're used to working with young people who do what they're told, but they got me, haha.


    This is not a high-priced, custom build -- we make no pretense of that -- but it is a great-looking, great living, simple, small house that we got for an excellent price.

  • artemis_ma
    8 years ago

    Being onsite as much as possible... I tried that, and went and broke my leg. I've only been on site once since mid-October (two hour trip each way).

    Fortunately there are some locals who have been looking around for me. It is still frustrating.

  • smile4me422
    8 years ago

    We certainly don't expect hardwood floors or that level for this price. We've renovated 2 homes ourselves and know how much flooring usually costs etc... We only plan to upgrade the ceiling height and make the windows bigger, add some extra lights.

    I spoke with a small local builder yesterday and they were the same price as Lexar except they didn't have the Air Renew drywall, the guy we met with (only 3 people at the company) couldn't even tell me where the windows come from, not a brand name or anything. The upgrades were way more too, no credit given for the materials you aren't using (i.e., upgrading from carpet to laminate is $4.10 sqft).

    Our main concern is really everyone's main concern when looking at a Budget Builder, will my house fall down in a heap a week after I move in? I've read some pretty scathing stuff, about every single builder we've found. I'm talking people who have said every single structural and cosmetic aspect of their home was a failure and they lost tens of thousands of dollars in the process.


    Lexar does have the same plans and photos as hiline with a $30k higher price tag, so they obviously aren't that different. The floor plans are pretty lame. Reality Homes has better floor plans, and the prices look great, but holy moly what some people say has happened to them from Reality! Apparently the contracts are horrible and leave the buyer with no recourse.

    So what's a young family trying to build a home for $65/sqft to do?


    Has anyone had a good experience and result with Reality Homes?


    Any other options in Western Washington?



  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    I don't know. Seems like $65 square foot is awfully low for a newly built house. That's only $130,000 for a 2000 square foot house.

  • jn3344
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Western Washington? Well, it could be worse. It could be the SF Bay area.

    I just built here so I know a few things.

    Look at the people building lower end homes. You are not going to be able to do better than they already are. Buy one already built if you can.

    We looked at one who advertised 65 bucks a foot (5 years ago). Paper baseboards...paper!

    Everything is absolutely lowest quality.

    I would buy existing and fix it up the way you want.

    Good luck!

  • smile4me422
    8 years ago

    @sbkh Can i ask who you ended up choosing to build yours?

  • Ichabod Crane
    8 years ago

    So what's a young family trying to build a home for $65/sqft to do?

    Buy an existing house? Why is "new" required to have a home?

  • bluesanne
    8 years ago

    Ichabod Crane, buying an existing home can be a good choice. We are old house fanatics and always owned 1920s bungalows when we lived in Portland. We didn't necessarily want a "new" house, but we fell in love with our land out in the country, which was sadly lacking a cozy cabin or farmhouse. (Instead, it had a butt-ugly mobile home.)


    smile4me422, our house was built by Adair. Are you near Woodland, WA? Adair, Reality and HiLine all have display houses within walking distance from one another. Lexar has an office on the same street, but no display home, so they gave us the address of a house in progress. To be honest, the Reality and HiLine display houses were poorly built -- these were their model homes, yet trim was sloppy, doors didn't close properly, and the Reality saleswoman told me their houses "aren't meant for those heavy, ugly clawfoot tubs" or an "unnecessary" slate hearth. (which translated as, they aren't meant for me...)


    You might also check out True Built Homes. They are strictly a Washington company, so travel upcharges would have been ridiculous for us, but they do seem to build a solid house.


    And definitely talk to traditional builders in your area. You need to know how costs compare and you might be surprised.


    Don't fall for the $65/sq.ft. or whatever price they list. That is bare bones without site prep, building permits, "owner responsibilities" such as painting, etc. Find a good cost estimator and leave nothing to chance -- what we calculated (I'm rather anal, lol) came very close to our actual final price. Remember, too, that while you save by building a small house, you pay just as much for site prep, permits, etc., etc., so a small house costs MORE per square foot. The finished costs for on-your-lot houses are still low, provided you stay clear of the costly upgrades, but no matter who you have build, you should plan everything down to the last penny and DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you sign a contract.


    People love to make fun of these companies, but we have a well-built house for about what people pay for tiny houses. There are many reasons we were able to make this work, but it can be done.


  • Maggie
    8 years ago

    Have you looked into Adair Homes? We had considered them but ended up going custom since my husband's father has built a few homes on his own. They seem to have a pretty decent structure and their base includes a bit better options than Hiline. Their model home in Olympia has an exposed upstairs so you can see their construction and my FIL felt it was pretty good for a "cheap" builder...

    Our neighbors are about to finish their Adair build(also in W. WA) and it's gone pretty smoothly really. We've stalked their build every week ;) The main snags they had were the stairs not passing the initial inspection because they were 1/4 inch off (our inspector up here is super super picky) but they fixed and all was good. The house is beautiful and they only upgraded counters and trim I believe. There is an open house on Feb 13th so you should check it out!


  • smile4me422
    8 years ago

    Well we met with Reality yesterday, I even confronted him about the insanely horrible stuff I've read about them. He was not terribly reassuring. Mainly said people put up bad reviews because they don't understand the process. We have $50k planned for site development. I've already talked to the water and sewer company. Then I went and talked to our mortgage broker, as we were leaving I could tell he was hesitating on something (known him for a while) I asked him to be real straight with me and he said he was worried about what we would end up with and how the process might go with Reality, I asked if Lexar was better because they charge a ton more and he said "No, I don't think either will be a good bet, to be very honest." He was checking around walls before he spoke, being careful not to be overheard. SO, that is scary! I don't want some extraordinary masterpiece, I can not have a house with messed up walls and sloppy foundations, that is the worry.


    True Built does seem better, sadly they don't build in Bellingham, just like most of the builders that have been recommended, argh!


    Ok, so no one has mentioned Adair to me, except one of the builders who said something about you don't even need to go see them, you know that is just Hiline with a different name. So now you guys have brought them up in a much better light. There is an office a few minutes away from me so I guess I'm hauling the toddler out for another builder meet.

  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    Obviously your mortgage broker knows all the players so maybe before hauling off to see Adair, you should run it by your broker. You could call him up and just ask if you should bother going to see him. A yes/no question. :)

  • smile4me422
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    He said he doesn't have experience with them much. He initially suggested Lexar, so he doesn't know too much as he says they don't do a whole lot of construction loans and he doesn't handle the final product, he just gets the loan through and then we deal with someone else. But he felt he needed to expressly warn me about Reality and Lexar too, I could tell he wasn't going to get specific, but I would've liked to know specifics! I guess if a guy who usually is careful to stay neutral had to step outside his comfort zone to warn me I should take that seriously.

    My husband just cancelled our appointment with Adair after reading 40+ scathing experiences online, about the same as we read with Reality and Lexar. I've contacted a ton of customish builders, the only one so far to give me any type of price was Armstrong (horrible floor plans) who said they start at $100sqft, very basic, no garage included etc.... So that's not the best when compared with $80sqft for everything (not really upgrades so much as a whole and complete house, aside from site prep).

    I know some people have had success with these builders, and we desperately want to be one of them as we need this to work, existing homes aren't even an option around here, we'd be at $300k for a simple, outdated 1300sqft house going the traditional route. This I think is also because there aren't good builder options up here. I suggested to True Built that their next office should be here.

  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    Building a decent home is almost always going to cost more than buying an older home. Maybe you'd be better off renting for a few more years and acquiring some more funds so you can build a quality house? (Note quality doesn't mean upgraded with fancy finishes but what I mean is with quality construction from a builder with a good reputation.)

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    8 years ago

    Have enough warning bells gone off? Does it seem like this is a risky to bad strategy? Is it time to look for other options? Plan B or C? Keep in mind the old saying, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is..."! Hope you find an appealing and safer direction.

  • millworkman
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Virgil is correct, and imho production builders are all going to be dam near the same.................

  • _sophiewheeler
    8 years ago

    If you can't afford a pot to pizz in, you either hold your bladder or find a tree. You do not have the budget to afford to build. Keep dreaming, and keep saving. 10years from now, reevaluate .

  • smile4me422
    8 years ago

    We do have the budget, we are trying to ensure we get good value for our money and are looking for people with actual experiences with these companies. We can't find much of anything on the small independent builders we've talked to either. These guys people review $4 ear buds on amazon in the thousands but I can't find real reviews on building homes with these companies.

  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    smile4me422 what is the average cost per square foot of a resale in your area? If it's above the $68 a square foot these builders are saying they can build you a house for, I'd be somewhat concerned. In the majority of cases, a resale is usually less expensive than a new build.

  • jn3344
    8 years ago

    I'm not too far from the OP. I spent 3 years researching the options. The problem right now is labor is so expensive. Seattle is booming and everyone who can is working down there. It is one of the more expensive markets in the whole country.

    A model tract home in a development in mount vernon we priced in 2011 was going for 225k. The in-laws were goi g to buy one. The new model in phase 3 of the same development is now approaching 400k. They are priced out. It's crazy.

    Look at the prices of new construction spec homes. You will not be able to do cheaper. Period.

    Good luck.



  • smile4me422
    8 years ago

    Thank you jn3344. That is what has happened, we watching home prices jump this last year on existing homes. It is crazy, the same home just one year ago would now cost us $40-$50k more, if they were even on the market. The prices of lots also went up but not nearly as much and those spec homes only raised their prices a little bit too so that makes building a MUCH more attractive option than buying an existing home, that probably has siding rot because, Washington.

    Sounds like you were looking in Skagit Highlands, that place is insane right now because it's the only newer home option in Mount Vernon where you can find anything under $300k and that is the no yard, small house options. We made offers there above asking and got outbid, that was on foreclosed stuff that needed lots of repair too. Those are just spec homes there too!

    Hence our tenacity to build at this point, hard to turn down a 2050sqft spec home with a few upgrades and lot and development for $250k versus 847sqft 20 year old house for the same cost < that is what my agent tried to sell me on this morning, nothing like a family of 4 in 847sqft!

  • bluesanne
    8 years ago

    My review is very real. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate. You will not get a custom or architect-designed home this way, but if you keep your build simple and avoid the upgrades, you'll have a solid, decent home.

  • e2dennis
    8 years ago

    I built a beach house with Hiline Homes 2 years ago. I actually blogged about it specifically so people could see what our experience was like because I too could not find anything online. I haven't updated the blog with what the house has been like since we moved into it because I got burned out. But overall, I think the house was pretty solidly built. The build experience was far from perfect but that is also true of my sister's super high end build that I got to hear about going up as well. I will say the fixes and responses to getting things fixed on the higher end home were a lot better than what Hiline has done. But our house itself seems like a very good value to me. All inclusive with our land, permits, driveway, excavation/ground prep, etc, we paid about $118 per sq foot. With the builder we quoted with, the cost would have been $160 per sq ft. and the quality at that price would have been comparable to Hiline's since the builder also would have been using similar materials to get their quote that low. (By similar materials I mean the finishing touches like countertops, carpet, flooring, etc. They would have used the same construction materials, and in some cases, Hiline's construction materials were actually nicer.)

    So, I think you could go with one of these companies and come out okay, though I can only speak for one of them. We had a terrible project manager but he was fired after our build. Hopefully their next one is better.)

    Here's a link to my blog if you want to read about it. I always meant to go back and pull out the salient details that people would want to know, but I never did. So it's mostly an online journal, I'm sure it's incredibly painful to read!

    http://myhilinehome.com/

  • C Parker
    6 years ago

    I apologize if I missed it above, but any info on Skagit Design Homes?.. What I do know is they recently "separated" their partnership with TrueBuilt. The split sounded amicable, probably a wise business move. I have read enough about Reality to know they should be named Unrealistic, or Reality horrors. I do know one guy however who is a retired builder, who had them build their Classic 1767sf model. Then he finished it. He said he couldn't get the basic structure built for what they could with their resources. He was also there daily overseeing every detail. I wish I had the skills, time, money and health to build one, or contract it myself but I don't. Your prior comments have been very informative, and I want to thank you all for your input. -Parker

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    6 years ago

    Old construction saying, "Cheap, fast, good...pick one!"

    Everybody who builds get one of these. A few may get two. No one gets all three.

    Ever.

  • worthy
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    The spamster has been one busy little bee today!

  • jenny623
    2 years ago

    Curious what OP ended up doing? Did you go with a build on lot builder? I know this was several years ago... and the market is insane now.. But I'm also wondering if this is a better option than buying a half broken down shack for 300k in this area.

  • millworkman
    2 years ago

    New construction is always more than existing. Even years later this does not change, especially in todays RE market.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    2 years ago

    @jenny623 OP is from 8 years ago I doubt the OP is still around.

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