Lavender - you might enjoy this blog post about light on two sides of the room and the history of that architectural principal :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Light on Two Sides

Athens- Thanks for the link! I really like this picture, too :)
{{gwi:1432303}}From Fairy tale cottage

Athensmom- Thanks again for the link! I found another picture of this kitchen, which I really like...so much light, the beams, the hood, the cool chairs! Great kitchen :)
{{gwi:1433881}}From Fairy tale cottage

Hi Lavendar Lass. Love your closet pics! Beautiful!

My instinct is always to put the sink wherever you have the better view and put a window over it. However, it looks like you can easily stub the gas in for your outdoor range if you put the range against the sun porch side. Is that right? Not sure I'm reading it correctly. So then you are trading off function for being able to look out the porch window and maybe chat to people sitting out there while you do the dishes. Or at least communicate by hand signals through the window!

I don't know how much more it costs to bring out gas from the other side of the kitchen, if that is even what you're thinking...can you tell we haven't gotten to that part in our own planning yet?

Whatever you decide I will enjoy watching you go through the process.

lavender - that is one of my very favorite kitchens, ever :) And I thought of it immediately when you posted your revised plan!

Mayberry- First of all...love the name! I don't know if I told you that before :)

I'm switching the range and sink, so there will be more outside light coming into the room. Athensmom and others pointed out that light only from the sunporch would be indirect light. Since we'll have an electric range (no natural gas out here, on the farm) then we have more flexibilty to make some changes.

Glad you like the closet pictures! What a great way to turn a spare bedroom into a closet...I'm just amazed that the gal's entire wardrobe is so neutral/pastel. LOL

Athensmom- Thank you, thank you, thank you for the picture! Not only has it made a difference for me, but I posted these on the kitchen and small homes forums...so others can get great ideas, too! I've seen other pictures with the windows on each side of the range, but this one really is charming.

I was baking pizza and chocolate cake today (don't you love Sundays?) and watching the horses, out the window. I'm telling my husband some funny thing they're doing...and thinking about watching them from the new kitchen, after the remodel. Then, it hits me...that's a summer pasture! I wouldn't see them for half the year, out those windows. How did I miss this before? It's such a 'duh' moment, but I totally got caught up in south light, herbs in the kitchen window, access to the sunporch, etc. But to be honest...all those things pale, compared to not seeing 'the kids'. So, I have to do some serious thinking and decide what to do next.

Luckily, it's been a cold, wet spring, so I have plenty of time to decide...but I do need to get my act together in the next few months. I don't want to itemize taking down the wrong wall or not budget for a load bearing wall, when we finally get closer to getting estimates. So, the kitchen may end up where I've had the study/bedroom/master, in the past. The wall between that area and the living room is definitely load bearing, but that just means smaller footprint...more money for demo.

The sad thing is...if this was someone else's house plan, I probably would have noticed this in a second. Why is it we can help other people, but get caught up in too many details/distractions, when it comes to our own project?

On a happier note, I was watching Frasier last night and saw the episode with Thanksgiving at Lilith's. Funny episode, but I was totally distracted by the kitchen...especially the sink/window area! Not normally a fan of toile, but I really like this :) {{gwi:1433883}}From Farmhouse plans

Great kitchen island (even though it is a barrier to the ovens). {{gwi:1433885}}From Farmhouse plans

And Lilith (appropriately) in front of the 'ice box'! LOL {{gwi:1433888}}From Farmhouse plans

lady lavender ...

had some time , so i tweaked your plan , yet again :-)

let me know your thoughts ...

Summerfield- This is another beautiful plan! Thank you so much, for taking the time to do this. I really like the living room, in the back. It never occured to me to set up the room like that...it's such a great space! The screened porch is wonderful, too. I also like your idea for the study being up front, but I think it would be better, where the dining room is, in the plan.

A while back, you opened up the space, between what is the study and master in this plan...and I think that was a really good idea. However, I'd like to put the kitchen/keeping room in that space, since we'd already have the fireplace and there would be windows on three sides...and there would be no need to bump out any space to the right, since that's so close to the well.

Between the study (former dining room) and living room, there should be room for a bathroom...and the master would be great, left of the living room. Then, I'm not sure about the rest of the space, but I do know I want more light, in the kitchen. Athensmom has convinced me that we need more direct light in the space and I really love the idea of a dining/keeping room, separate from the living room. Something flexible that could be set up for larger groups to dine, when necessary...but stay smaller and cozier for everyday.

Maybe something like this? I'm open to suggestions :) {{gwi:1433892}}From Farmhouse plans

I like the screened porch, where you have it...it looks great off the living room. I'd probably have the hot tub off the master bedroom, but that would be a great place for the sun/screen porch. Any idea for the roof lines?

Just for reference, here's where the kitchen/keeping room space would be, in relation to the rest of the farmhouse. The south light is in the bottom left corner and the best views are to the top right (north) side of the house. We can't add on to the right of the house and the rooflines make it difficult to add anything behind this kitchen/keeping room area. We can add to the rest of the back of the house and to the left.
{{gwi:1433894}}From Farmhouse plans

Sorry, I forgot the dimensions...and rather than count little squares...the kitchen/keeping room is 18' x 27', the current dining room is 13' x 12', the current kitchen is 13' x 10', and the current porch is 10' x 16'. Oh, and the vestibule is 8' x 6'.

We've considered taking down the wall between the current dining room and kitchen...and making that the living room, but I really like Summerfield's living room, off the back. If anyone has any suggestions/ideas, I'd love to see them! :)

LL - This is the current footprint of the house? I'm getting about 1130 sq ft. What size to you want the final first floor to be? And what rooms still need to be planned for? Dining room, study, family room, master bedroom, master bathroom, laundry, mud room, utility room, hall bathroom, power room? And spaces outside the building envelope include the pergola, sun room, and screened porch? Did I get that right? Because listing them all out makes it sound like a much larger house than I thought you were wanting.

Have you ever read "Designing Your Perfect House" by William Hirsch? It is a very good book to help you plan what spaces are important to you and how you want the spaces to relate to each other. You might want to see if you can find it and go through the steps he lists. It might trigger some thoughts so you don't forget about those things that are important to you, like seeing the horses from the kitchen window. (Do you need a view from a different side of the house to see them in the winter?)

Dekeoboe- Thank you for the recommendation...I will look for the book at the library :)

What we need is a family room, hall bath, master bedroom/bath, a laundry space and a mud room. A separate dining room is not necessary. I'm hoping to do something like the picture above, but have the dining table pushed up to the island, with prep sink. Then, when we need more space, we could move the table out, add some leaves and seat more people. I'm trying to use flexible spaces, so we don't need so many separate rooms. The study/guest room would be great, if we could fit it in somewhere, but not a must have.

It would be great to have a greenhouse or sunny space for plants and maybe a screened porch for the hot tub...but those could be added later. Same thing with the pergola on the front.

We do have some unfinished attic space upstairs, but that would be mainly craft space/guest area for nieces/nephews. I don't even know if we'll try to put a bathroom up there, so another reason for a full bath downstairs.

I'd really rather not have direct access to the outside, without going through a mudroom or porch. You'd be amazed how many animals are trying to get in or out, at any given time. I have indoor kitties that would like to be outside and barn kitties, who want to come in...not to mention the racoons and other assorted 'neighbors' who surprise me at the door, day and night! LOL It's best if there's some separation between outdoor spaces and the rest of the house.

Dekeoboe- Sorry, I missed the last part...we don't need another view, since both sides of the kitchen (in this version) will look out at the horse pasture. The best view is out the windows, over the sink.

I've thought about doing something like this from day one...but all I could come up with was island and the dining table in front of the fireplace...and it seemed like it took up a lot of space, for just the two of us. It's also difficult to figure out where to put the rest of the rooms...so we went in a different direction. This picture really made me rethink using the space like this...and having room for a seating area, too :)

You know, if I could figure out a way to make this work...I could put the sunroom/dining area, where Summerfield has the dining room in this plan, if I took out the porch. Then, I could add some windows to the other side of the room (maybe make it 13' x 16') and have a bay window in the front. The table could go there, still have room for a few chairs and an ottoman and a desk area. This would be a sunny, library/dining space that could be used as an office, too. The living room would be in the back, with the master to the left of it...maybe with a small guest room, if there's enough space.

While we don't need a separate dining room, I would like a sunny spot to work, have tea with friends, and spread out my gardening books, etc. My mom and I both like porches, but if this had enough windows, maybe I could substitute this area for the porch. Trying to think flexible spaces! :)

This is all I've come up with, so far. The dining room/sunroom would have windows on the left side (at least part way up) and french doors, from the entry and a pocket door, to the hall. This way it can be quiet as an office/reading area and keep the kitties out of the plants, at night.

The living room (which I really like) has views out the back and side, with room for a pantry or bathroom, between the sunroom and the living room. Maybe a screened porch behind the living room, with access to the deck, off the side. And, maybe the hot tub on the other end, off the master bedroom?

Haven't figured out the bedroom/laundry yet...but I like this so far. Any other ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance :) {{gwi:1433895}}From Farmhouse plans

Well, this is far from perfect...and the scale isn't quite the same...but hopefully it's an okay first attempt.

I'd like to have the hot tub/porch, off the back of the bedroom...maybe with a door at the end of the windowseat, by the fireplace. Oh, and this would either be a propane fireplace or the world's tiniest wood stove...only for power outages.

The guest room/study is supposed to stick out a few feet further than the mudroom, so it will block the wind, which comes from the left side of the house. The parking will be off to the left and towards the road a bit.

The living room would have the wood stove, in the fireplace...something like this. {{gwi:1433897}}From Fairy tale cottage

I like that Summerfield put the sloped vaulted ceiling in here, since there's no second story above it. Those are low bookcases (under the windows) and a path to the French door, out to a screened porch. I'd like to connect the hot tub porch to this screened...and maybe have a deck or patio area, behind the kitchen. This is the north corner of the house and would be wonderful, during the hot part of the summer.

And the pergola...this could be moved to the back (off the range windows) if that's a garden out there, so we could plant the pergola. Pots are not an option for perennials, in our climate. Moving it would allow more southeast light into the keeping room (I like that idea) and maybe plant some roses in that area, instead :) {{gwi:1433900}}From Farmhouse plans

Since my scale is not quite the same, I thought I'd do a quick sketch on graph paper. I ended up swapping the mudroom and laundry area, and moving the closet for the second bedroom/study, so it's not quite such a 'long hall' effect. And the garage is moved back a bit, to make it line up with the breezeway and have the greenhouse on the front. Nice area for a small veggie garden/potager, on that side of the house, too :)

Each square is equal to 2 feet and the master suite is not finished, but just 'roughed in' since I'm still thinking about the layout. Hopefully, Summerfield and others will have some great ideas! {{gwi:1433902}}From Farmhouse plans

Will the pergola get enough light there? It looks like it will be on the colder, north corner of the house. It will be shaded on the northwest side by the living room and screened porch, so it will mainly get northern sun.

Dekeoboe- Thank you for checking back in! I was thinking the same thing...but I was wondering if the pergola would block too much light on the southeast side (front window). On the other hand, that is the road side, so maybe a little less exposure would be nice. We're downhill a bit from the road, so the pergola might give us a little more privacy...especially if we had wisteria hanging down :)

I'm also wondering about the long hall along the living room. I don't know if I should leave a wall there or open the living room up more to the hallway. What do you think?

Still trying some different layouts...I don't want to build anything that requires a 'foundation' to the right of the existing farmhouse...since the well is just behind that area. However, a deck or porch would be okay (less intrusive) so I'm thinking about a screened porch (maybe with storm windows) on that side of the house. It would give us an 'outside' room and the north corner of the house is wonderful, in the hot summer. Not the most effective winter area, but we might just add storm windows, to use it for storing the indoor/outdoor furniture.

Also...I'm thinking about just having a big kitchen table, rather than the island and table. I rearranged things a bit, so I don't need a prep sink on the island. My grandmother had a big kitchen with a table in the middle...and I really liked it! She would have loved the seating area by the fireplace :) {{gwi:1433904}}From Farmhouse plans

Still tinkering...I moved the study to the left of the stairs, with a hall to the bathroom and more storage. Added some bookcases along the hallway and put the utility/laundry area, where the old porch is, now.

I like the glassed in porch (with screens) off the kitchen. Not a lot of light, but it would be easy to add skylights to the front (southeast side) if needed. Also put a screen porch behind the living room. Still not sure about the layout for the master suite, but it would be nice to have the hot tub off the side of back. Ideally, off the back, and make the screened porch a bit longer that is off the living room. That would be great!

Any other ideas? :) {{gwi:1433906}}From Farmhouse plans

About the well, have you already checked out the well and the piping from the well to the house to see that they are in good condition and can be used as is without having to update them? If not, you might want to check that out, it could turn out that you have to excavate near the well anyway and you might not be so limited in your footprint.

Have you also check out your septic system? Can you use the old septic field or do you have to have a new one in a different location? That is another area that can really impact where you can build and how many bedrooms you can have.

I mention these because we were limited in the number of bedrooms due to the septic system. If we had an additional bedroom, we would have had to go with a different, more expensive, septic system. And the first well we drilled, over 600 ft, was dry. That impacted other decisions we had to make.

Dekeoboe- Oh, that's a good point about the well! I hadn't even thought of that. The septic field should be fine, but again, until we start construction, you never know what you're going to find!

We don't plan to have a lot of bedrooms or bathrooms (last I saw, they went by bathrooms now in our area, over bedrooms) but that was a few years ago, when we were looking for my mom.

Summerfield had one option, with the master suite in the front. It might work better with this layout, but I hate to give up the privacy, of having it in the back. Still trying to come up with some different layouts, but I really like the kitchen and porch! :)

I thought about the master suite in front...and while it's not quite as private, it does have the advantage of being off the garden area. And, I'd rather have the living room in the back, than the master. The study should work really well back there, too.

This is pretty rough...just a quick cut and tape, and I didn't add a screened porch off the back, but that would be a great place for the hot tub. Maybe have access from the living room and the study, to the screened porch? It would be nice if there was a wall on the left side of the porch, with screens on the back and right side...our only neighbor is off to the left. {{gwi:1433908}}From Farmhouse plans

Still needs some work, but I have to get back outside and work on my weeding! It's actually beautiful today (in the 70s!) and it's supposed to be nice a few more days and then back to the 50s and rain. Thanks for all the input and suggestions! Have a great rest of the weekend :)

I just realized, I should have flipped the bed, in the master bedroom. I took out the second entrance, from the hall...so it makes more sense to have the bed against that wall, the TV on the wall to the bathroom, and the chair in the corner by the little window. It's better 'feng shui' and it puts the window seat on my side of the bed! :)

I should probably flip the bathroom, too...so the shower is against the other bathroom and the door can be moved down a bit...and the bedroom door can open into the room.

I forgot to change the kitchen to the table only...not the island/table combo. I found this picture, which is what I'd like to do in our kitchen...
{{gwi:1433910}}From Farmhouse plans

Islands have great storage, prep area and height for baking/cooking...but they do divide the kitchen from the eating area. Many people like this, but I'm trying to bring the table into the kitchen...so that people feel like they're part of what's going on in the space...not once removed. I miss my grandmother's kitchen, which had the big table in the middle. Maybe not the best 'functional' layout, but she cooked and baked more than most people I know...and everyone gathered in her kitchen for coffee or tea and great conversation! :)

I'm trying this one more time...maybe this one is a little easier to read.
{{gwi:1433911}}From Farmhouse plans

I think this looks better, without the screened porch, off the living room. Instead, there will be a nice view of the horse pasture and access to the outside, through the kitchen/porch and mudroom.
{{gwi:1433912}}From Farmhouse plans

I haven't seen these new ideas but I really like the kitchen and living room on the back. Do you need two living areas?

One thing about it, when it comes time to build, you'll know you covered all your bases.

Thanks, Marti :)

The kitchen/dining/keeping room may have more dining/less seating, depending on how we end up using it...but I'd like to have a small seating area, by the fireplace.

The living room is large, but it also has the best view (out the side windows) and a fairly good view, out the back. Same with the windows over the kitchen sink and the porch.

You're right...I will know I covered all the bases! LOL I've been thinking about putting the kitchen/keeping room area here, since day one, but I could not figure out how to arrange the rest of the spaces. This is not too bad...but I wouldn't mind a little magic from Summerfield, to smooth out the rough spots :)

It seems this thread has veered away from your original topic regarding switching the sink and the range! :)

I really like taking advantage of the view from the kitchen, and the way you have it set up feels more open which as you know, I'm biased towards!

The kitchen inspiration picture you shared is perfect for the house you have been describing, however I have one question, are you certain you won't end up wishing for a dining room at least slightly removed from your kitchen sometimes?

I'm sure I will! LOL But, that's what the porch is for, hopefully. If we can combine a glass/screen porch (maybe with baseboard heat) we could use it for special occsions. For everyday, I think a big table in the kitchen will be great.

An island was always big on my 'wish list' but recently, I've been looking more and more at kitchen tables, over islands. Not as efficient, no storage, wrong height...but so cozy and friendly and very user friendly. So many ages have an easier time using a chair, over a stool...so I think that's what finally pushed me towards the kitchen table choice. I want a kitchen that everyone wants to go into, as they walk in the front door :)

Ah, that makes sense then! I see what you mean about the island, versus table, and it certainly makes the kitchen more cozy! It is warm and inviting, and will certainly encourage people to gather in the kitchen.

I wasn't thinking about the sun room being an option for dining due to the furniture in the sample! Regarding heating, my dad has a slightly larger one in Ontario (maybe 50% bigger, though, it is a sun porch and not all the windows open). It is vaulted and the ceiling must be 1.5 stories high at the peak. It is heated with an electric radiant floor and when it is being used the doors are left open to the house and it is usable all year round. As long as you have good windows and insulation it should be fine!

Are the rooms are swirling counter clockwise or am I buzzed again?

Dyno- LOL! You're buzzed, but that's okay. We're all friends, here :)

Laura- Thanks for the info on your dad's sunroom! That's great to know. The furniture in the plan is just wicker, so easy enough to move or change.

Laura- I've been thinking about what you said...and I do have one other option for the dining area. I don't want to lose the keeping room feel, though...so I included a big window seat and a chair (maybe ottoman) by the fireplace, and a desk in the corner. What do you think?
{{gwi:1433913}}From Farmhouse plans

If we do use an island, I want it to look like this on the sink side, with stools on the other side. {{gwi:1433914}}From Fairy tale cottage

This one is nice, too. {{gwi:1433915}}From Farmhouse plans

This is what I was thinking about, for the window seat. {{gwi:1422907}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And this for the windows, over the kitchen sink. {{gwi:1422909}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

I love your last drawing! It is such a great compromise between both options. If you don't already have a table for that space you could get an expanding one, keep it cozy and small for day to day, but easy to expand for a crowd. And I'd bet you could find another place to put a comfy chair in there as well.

I'm trying to figure out how I could put some comfy seating in my dining area as well, something near the window, a little reading spot.

Back to your plan, I'm not sure how it would look with two tables in the same room, the islands that you show would pull it together more, and give you additional counter height work space, which depending on how much you cook (I'm guessing quite a bit) you may end up being happy to have.

Laura- I'm glad you like it! I think the island will be great for baking bread, which I'd like to do more often, if we had a bigger kitchen. If I have a wooden top on the island, maybe I can splurge with a little marble, by the wall oven :)

As for your dining area, I think a little reading spot is a wonderful idea!

Great idea about a smaller table for everyday that can expand, when we need more room. A couple of comfy chairs that could be used at the dining table, too, might be a nice compromise. I've always liked this print, which seems so cozy and inviting...even the chairs are cute! {{gwi:1433916}}From Farmhouse plans

The last time I was in the granite store there was some great runs of prefab marble for around $200 (for the precut finished on one side type) but I bet if you check with your local fabricators you can get a small piece for even less from the remnants.

As for the table in your dining/keeping room, how about the below one from pottery barn (I'm sure there are similar ones for the less at local furniture stores).

Regarding your living room, are you against having your tv over the fireplace? I ask because you mention the best views being behind the direction that your sofa faces. May not matter with the sun room and dining/hearth room but thought I would mention it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Expandable round table

The fireplace in the living room will probably be a wood stove, so I think the TV will work better on the other wall...plus knowing my husband it will be a BIG TV! LOL

Cool table, thanks for the link :) We have a nice pedestal table, with the round top (very vintage) but I think I might look for a rectangular table that stretches out from 5' to maybe 7' or 8'. It would be great to have seating for everyone, for big family dinners!

I've been trying to decide how big my marble will be, so I can start looking for some remnants or old tables, and reuse the marble top. I'd like to have marble for the sink in the master too...but we have a well, so still doing a little research.

Are you thinking about a Pottery Barn table, for your dining area? I know you really like the U-shape kitchen with island, but a little window seat/banquette area would be so cute. Especially for the kids! If we had kids, I can only imagine...I already design with my nieces/nephews in mind. That's one reason I wanted table height in the kitchen (for decorating cookies) and comfy chairs, for reading books by the fire :)

Kids grow so fast, so I don't want to make too many design designs based on what will be easiest for the first 4-6 years when I hope to be in this house for much, much longer! Though, I do need to work at each age ;)

A round table would look great in that room for day to day, and leave more space to use it is as a hearth room, so you could keep your eye out for large expanding round or oval tables?

We already have a large rectangular table, though at some point I hope to upgrade to a much larger one. Large dinners are regular (nearly monthly) occurance in my family (though currently I don't host many). And each one includes about 18 people, and several family members are still without children and spouses so that will just grow over time! I have my eye out for a table that doubles in size to fit about 20. I saw one awhile ago and I'm kicking myself for not buying it, because now it has double in price!

I'll post a couple ideas I have for my dining room window on my thread so I don't hijack yours!

When do you plan (or should I say hope) to start your renovation?

If you do a search of the OPs name on GardenWeb, I believe the answer will be apparent.

We've been planning this for a few years, but I'm so glad we've had the extra time, to try different ideas! Last summer we got a great deal of the house cleaned out and will finish that this summer and may be able to start demolition, too. Getting everything cleaned out, removing the old/damaged sheetrock and cleaning out the partial basement is going to be the focus this summer.

Next spring, if finances are in better shape, I'm hoping we can start construction. The farmhouse was full (still stuff to go through) of family antiques, treasures and lots of junk! It's been a slow process, but getting a better idea of what spaces we want/need has made this a much more enjoyable process. If I know we won't need a formal dining table, I can easily offer it to a SIL, without thinking...oh, I knew we should have kept that!

Since we live on the farm (next to the farmhouse) we have the great advantage of being able to live near (but not in) the remodel. We'll probably do a lot of things in stages and I'd love to do some of the projects, myself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a carpenter, but I'm a fairly good painter, I like to help with some small carpentry detail work, and I want to learn how to lay ceramic tile, for the main kitchen countertops and backsplash. I may still have to hire someone to do it, but it would be fun to try a few small projects and see if I can do it myself :)

Thanks for the back story Lavender_Lass! You are lucky to be able to work things out in bits and pieces and not be under huge time pressure.

Our time pressure is a fear of what the interest rates will be by the time we have to refinance our construction loan to a 30 year loan!

Ooh! That is a concern! Hopefully interest rates won't increase in the near future.

My worry has been convincing my husband that we need to add on to the farmhouse, since there's no way, I can squeeze everything we want, into the existing space. And then it hit me...this is the first plan, where almost all the addition would be for spaces he wants! The study, big living room, hot tub...my little porch is the only add on for me.

Don't get me wrong, I like the big living room, too...but for once, my kitchen/keeping room and a bigger master bedroom...are in the existing space. No bigger bathrooms to convince him we really need or new kitchen space. Maybe this is a good sign! :)

That is some excellent logic, and planning!

Thanks, Laura :)

I tried the round table and I think you're right...it does look better in the space. {{gwi:1433917}}From Farmhouse plans