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duffydawg_gw

Dispute with Neighbor on New Build

duffydawg
10 years ago

We are building in Illinois. The excavation is completed with basement walls up. Neighbor complained that our dig hit the roots of his tree. Later he complained that the 23 inch Silver Maple was unsafe and therefore the work area was unsafe. We received a stop work order. The town arborist as appraised the tree. Despite the fact that we didn't dig into his property we offered the full value of his tree- four K. He is not happy and went to Town's public Works department and got values for Parkway Trees at around 7500. The towns work order stated the tree needed to be taken down but without a deadline to do so. So unless we go to court, we are at the mercy of this stop work order and the neighbor. The town approved the Site and Tree Preservation Plan but didn't indicate an acceptable area for excavation.

Are Parkway Trees comparable to trees on the northside just in the back of the house?

Has anyone else had a tree issue

Comments (27)

  • angel411
    10 years ago

    I don't have any expertise on trees, but just wanted to say are you sure you want to live next to this guy?? He sounds just lovely.

  • PRO
    Window Accents by Vanessa Downs
    10 years ago

    Sorry for your issues - we had some trouble with our neighbor once our footings and basement were poured. I won't go into detail, but please be prepared that the ill will between you and this neighbor will continue after you move in. We have been in our home for nearly 1.5 years and ours will not speak to us, or much less look at us. It's really taken some joy away from building our home. I wish you luck in getting this taken care of so the building can resume.

  • southerncanuck
    10 years ago

    It's not going to stop with the tree. These people do not have lives and they will continue until you leave or they die.
    I had one on each side of me, I'm still here.

  • kirkhall
    10 years ago

    His tree was appraised at $4k. He can take it or leave it.
    I'd not pay twice as much as it was worth.

  • texas_cajun
    10 years ago

    What is a "Parkway Tree" and why does the neighbor think that you should pay him nearly double what the appraiser said it was worth?

    Nevermind the fact that the town approved your Site and Tree Preservation Plan. I have no idea what your rules are with tree roots (were you ever able to verify whether you hit them? And if so, would the town hold you liable had the neighbor not complained? I'm just curious, probably has no bearing on anything) but it sounds like you are being more than generous.

  • galore2112
    10 years ago

    If one has a priceless tree close to the lot line, one should purchase the adjacent lot if excavation away from setbacks could cause damage.

  • DLM2000-GW
    10 years ago

    jrldh that's preposterous. The trees existed long before there were lot lines here. If one is building in an existing neighborhood with lots far under an acre, then a GOOD citizen takes care not to disrupt the status quo. You're way off base.

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago

    As a guideline, the roots of a tree spread as far outward underground as the branches spread out above ground. All of the soil underneath the tree's branch reach should be staked off and no construction traffic or any excavation should be allowed within the dripline. If the construction cannot happen without encroaching within that barrier, then you should be prepared to have even more trees die and to pay more fines and reimbursements for them.

    With such a restrictive city, you should have had your own certified arborist as part of your staff for the construction. He would have explained that to you and shown you which portions of the lot were actually available for construction without encroaching onto the neighbor's tree's driplines. Then you would have had to change your home's footprint. Or you would have been able to give a "heads up" to the neighbor and you both work together with a plan to save the trees, if possible.

    Did you even introduce yourself and "excuse the inconvenience to you" and offer to do what you could to lessen the inconvenience of having a building site next door? It's too late for that now, obviously. And you've engendered enmity. That likely won't go away without a BIG apology on your part and a different and more sensitive approach to your build.

    Getting the stop work order lifted is between you and the city, not you and your neighbor. Write the neighbor the check, and pre-pay for a certified arborist to take the tree down subject to the neighbor's allowing them access to his property. That should satisfy the city.

    It won't satisfy the neighbor. Nothing will. And you will live with someone on one side of you that will pick apart everything that you do and make your life miserable. If you're not prepared for living that life, then when the build is done, you may want to put it up for sale and live somewhere else.

    This post was edited by hollysprings on Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 19:20

  • njasmine1
    10 years ago

    You will have nothing but problems with this guy. I would just pay for the tree to get rid of him just think everyday you waste fighting this the more interest you will pay on any money borrowed, your contractors may go to other jobs therefore you will be put on the back burner, etc.

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    "As a guideline, the roots of a tree spread as far underground as they do above ground. " At the very least. I have found oak tree roots as large as my forearm well over 100 feet from the tree, well past the drip line of the tree.
    If the branches of the tree were overhanging your property, established law permits you to trim them ( at your expense) back to your property line. I would assume the same for roots-- but who knows?
    The roots may grow back and cause problems for your house.
    Time to consult a good attorney.

  • joyce_6333
    10 years ago

    I do hope you and your neighbor can come to a satisfactory solution. It's a tough way to start a relationship. How old was the tree? A tree that is over 100 years old "may" have lived out it's normal life anyway. At our last house (which was 100 yrs old), we had to spend a fortune taking out many very large old trees that were hollowing inside, and in danger of topping during a storm.

    When we built our new home, we tied bright pink ribbons on many trees that were NOT to be cut down. These trees pretty much identified a perimeter where we didn't want any excavation done. None of these were anywhere near the house, and yet when we went out the next day, many of the trees with pink ribbons were now cut down and piled up. Did they think we wouldn't notice?? They paid no attention to our wishes at all. Same thing happened when we built an additional garage on our property. And that had no basement, just a slab. They cut trees down that were more than 30' from the garage. Totally unnecessary in my opinion. Excavators plow through properties without any concern for the homeowner or neighboring properties. When they did the final grade around our house, they continued to cut down more trees and damage others. One of the excavators nearly ran me over with his over-zealousness. I'm still fuming nearly 2 yrs later.

  • galore2112
    10 years ago

    "jrldh that's preposterous. The trees existed long before there were lot lines here."

    Well, then maybe those lot line should have been drawn to protect the tree.

    No offense, but that tree in a residential area is not critical for the ecology of the earth. It is for the benefit of the people living there.

    And I agree, it's tremendously awesome to have old, mature trees.

    So if one loves having that tree, that person should purchase the adjacent lot themselves. If it's not their lot then what right does one have to control what the owner of that lot can do?

    I think preserving a neighbor's tree goes too far in asserting control of someone else's property.

  • energy_rater_la
    10 years ago

    what I think is preposterous is to build then sell, unless
    you have unlimited money and no reason to stand your own ground, if you've done nothing to damage the tree
    or its root system.

    from your post it isn't clear that it was proven that your
    build damaged the tree.
    "Neighbor complained that our dig hit the roots of his tree. Later he complained that the 23 inch Silver Maple was unsafe and therefore the work area was unsafe. We received a stop work order. The town arborist as appraised the tree. Despite the fact that we didn't dig into his property we offered the full value of his tree- four K. He is not happy and went to Town's public Works department and got values for Parkway Trees at around 7500. The towns work order stated the tree needed to be taken down but without a deadline to do so. So unless we go to court, we are at the mercy of this stop work order and the neighbor. The town approved the Site and Tree Preservation Plan but didn't indicate an acceptable area for excavation."

    what was the determination of the town arborist?
    if you didn't damage the tree or the roots, why offer
    thousands of dollars, unless you have that unlimited
    money thing going on?
    I would question both the town arborist for his/her
    official position. and then visit the public works office
    if arborist's report doesn't positively prove that you
    caused damage.

    once you let folks take advantage, they will.
    it is early in your build to be giving away money you
    may need later in the process. (unless unlimited $$)

    find out who he is buds with at public works office,
    and go over their head.

    but first...take a breath...
    then find out if proof of damage is there or if
    neighbor is just whackadoodle.

    best of luck.

  • BrianVarick
    10 years ago

    Silver maples are junk trees, I am surprised they said it was worth that much.

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago

    It's pretty surprising that the city arborist's protection plan didn't protect the trees. I would think that the City would bear some fault here for that bit of incompetence.

  • zone4newby
    10 years ago

    I think it's worth taking a deep breath, and considering the situation from your neighbor's perspective. I understand that you're frustrated, but the ideal solution at this point is one that lets you get back to building while doing as much as you can to improve your relationship with this neighbor.

    So, is the tree a safety hazard? If it is a safety hazard, then you'd think the neighbor would want it removed as soon as possible. I would proceed with the assumption of good will on his part, and that his concerns are precisely what he says they are, and document all interactions with him thoroughly, so that if you have to sue him to get access to his land to remove the tree, you can demonstrate that you've been reasonable and have tried to solve the problem.

    I can see both sides of this-- on the one hand, it's annoying to have an approved plan that is within the setbacks of your lot stopped because of something on someone else's lot, but on the other, it would be annoying to have the character of your backyard totally changed because someone is building on the lot next to yours, and wasn't careful not to damage your tree.

    Odds are that once that tree is gone, the neighbor will have to relandscape a chunk of his backyard because it will be much less shady. It is reasonable for him to be upset.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago

    "I think it's worth taking a deep breath, and considering the situation from your neighbor's perspective."

    Root are the same as branches if they intrude across a property line.

    You can cut them back to the property line, but you have to be careful not to kill the tree.

    A certified letter from your attorney on their letterhead detailing the local law might be worthwhile.

    This post was edited by brickeyee on Tue, Apr 16, 13 at 12:41

  • live_wire_oak
    10 years ago

    Yes, you are allowed to prune anything on your side of the property line as long as it doesn't impact the health of the tree. If your actions cause the tree to sicken and die, you will be on the hook legally for it's value.

    It's just like if your neighbor has a barking dog and a shabby fence that separates your property. If you put out rat poison in a steak on the perimeter, and the dog gets his nose through the fence and eats it and dies, you may end up in criminal court for animal cruelty and as a defendant in a civil suit in another courtroom.

    A tree whose trunk is on another's property but whose shade you enjoy conveys a benefit of increased value to your lot as well. And you lose that benefit if you kill the tree. Plus have to pay the neighbor for it.

    The smart thing for anyone in an urban infill build is to engage their own certified arborist before even they buy the property. If you want to build all the way up to the 5' setback on the lot, you'd better buy a lot that doing so won't cause your neighbor damage from the runoff of your roof, or you changing the amount of hardscape on your lot, or any number of issues that arise from people living together in closer contact in an urban environment. Like maintaining your neighbor's trees that shade your lot. A lot of this "common sense" stuff is now being legislated by municipalities because sense isn't as common as you would think.

  • lazy_gardens
    10 years ago

    A "parkway tree" is one that is growing in an open area so that it can fully develop the branch spread.

  • sanveann
    10 years ago

    Silver maples are fast growers. My husband had one he planted on his parents' property 20 years ago, and the thing is HUGE now. In no way, shape or form is that comparable to a 150-year-old oak. (And I'm a tree lover. We have two 150-year-old trees, a white oak and a shagbark hickory, on our property, and I would seriously FLIP if someone damaged those trees.)

    Silver maples also have shallow but huge, rather intrusive root structures. Frankly, I think it's a bad choice for a subdivision, and there may have been no way to avoid damaging it during your build.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago

    "A "parkway tree" is one that is growing in an open area so that it can fully develop the branch spread."

    Around here they are the government owned trees on the 'parkway' strip between the sidewalk and curbs.

    A 'field' tree is one that has no nearby competitors and develops full branching and 360 degrees of crown.

    In a dense forest few trees develop the massive crowns of a tree growing in an open field.

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    Careful reading shows that the post does not indicate that any expert has said that the tree is harmed. The arborist offered an appraisal of value-- not an evaluation of damage, if any. That appraisal could be done for a tree that is not disturbed at all. So the claim of damage is just the property owner belief- or fraud.
    I doubt that more than 10% of the root structure of this tree has been disturbed. In transplanting mature trees, much greater percentages of the root system are left behind.
    The neighbor is just an opportunist who should be left with an empty outstretched hand. And remember, if he wants to sue, the burden of proof is entirely on him.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Transplant.

    This post was edited by bus_driver on Wed, Apr 17, 13 at 19:32

  • energy_rater_la
    10 years ago

    my point exactly..
    what did arborist's report say??
    see post 13.

    lots of opinions based on unknown
    specifics at this point.

    knowing what the expert said is the starting
    point.

    in my opinion...

    best of luck.

  • kevin_5
    10 years ago

    Tell your neighbor to go pound sand. A 23" silver maple is not very old, is total junk, has shallow roots and likely won't suffer one bit with you cutting roots on your lot. You have every right to cut the roots on your lot, and he has to prove damage to his junk tree. Don't trust that appraisal either. I would put a minus sign in front of it.

  • ppbenn
    10 years ago

    Good luck trying to kill any maple let alone this silver.
    We had to put in a new septic tank 15 feet away from our 60 year old Silver maple and 22 feet from a Norway maple.
    We cut down the maple that was about 7 feet away due to the roots causing clogging issues. We have had to poison the stump to keep the close maple from living, sending up shoots and it kept growing roots for 5YEARS!!! We finally poisoned and had it ground down. The other maples are FINE. this was 15 years ago. Did say how close the tree is to your foundation?
    Your neighbor just has nothing better to do than cause trouble. I predict there will be one issue after another with this person.
    My best friend built two years ago, neighbor stopped excavation due to trees, they had a property line dispute that required a new survey and the sheriff being called, the neighbor planted new trees 15 feet into my friends property and refused to believe the new survey. Last month the neighbor called sheriff on my friends dog due to being unleashed on my friends own property. My friend had to pay a fine, get references of her dogs good behavior and now sheriff is suggesting mediation counseling.
    They wouldn't have built next to this person had they know then what they know now.
    It all started with a tree dispute. I'd plan a fence if I were you.

  • brickeyee
    10 years ago

    " I'd plan a fence if I were you."

    Think along the lines of a 6 foot privacy fence.

    It will be money well spent.