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anniedeighnaugh

Diplomacy and building

Annie Deighnaugh
9 years ago

So relatives stopped by, they're building a new home and were anxious to show us their plans. They were so excited about it and hope to break ground as soon as the financing is final.

I took one look at the plans and thought, oh how awful! They are not wealthy, they are working with a "designer" who must be just a draftsperson. There are so many basic mistakes in the design of their home, but how could I tell them? Things like an enormous 3 car garage (extra large for his boat) that is 10' proud of the front facade which has the front door crammed into the corner by the garage. The way the front porch was designed and roofed, the garage roof extends over the front, making it look even more like a garage with a side building rather than a home with a garage. And he was so pleased and possessive of his garage! The window design and placement on the front had no consideration for what it looks like on the outside, with none lined up or balanced. Please don't get me started on the kitchen... and she said the designer told her she did such a great job on layout that he would hire her!

I talked through a few things with them, giving them some suggestions to think about, including making the front door more important, but there was little else I could do. DH got out his scale and did point out that the drawing of the front facade did not match the floor plan layout, like windows and doors were not in the same location on each. And we did make the point that the drawings need to be right from the get go as that's how the house will be built.

My choice would've been to rip it up and start over, as we did 1,000 times on our home, but that clearly would not have been theirs! What can you do? I understand that everyone has their own goals and expectations for their new home as well as financial thresholds, but certain design fundamentals need not be expensive, and considering how much of their total financial assets will be tied up in this place, they could do so much better to make the house more universally appealing and valuable for the same cost.

I hope their build goes as planned (they expect to get it done in 12 weeks!) and that they are happy in their new home when it gets finished, ginormous garage and all.

Comments (20)

  • mrspete
    9 years ago

    It's easier to talk to people (strangers) online about house plans. On the one hand, it's easy to be straightforward and say, "Hey, think about this" when it's not your beloved sister whose feelings might be hurt.

    Phrases that might be helpful:

    A lot of people don't care for . . .
    Have you considered moving this . . .
    Imagine yourself walking through this door and seeing . . .
    How big is 4'? Let's look at it on the tape measure . . .

    In the end, it's their project, and a lot of people like things that I would hate. Float your ideas gently, and if they're accepted, push forward. If they meet with rejection, let it go. Relationships are more important than houses, and they may end up loving the GARAGEhouse concept and the difficult-to-find front door.

  • DLM2000-GW
    9 years ago

    That's all you can do, Annie, and hopefully they will be happy at the finish line. If they had come to you in process and asked for input, that would be different and you could have certainly offered much help. But they didn't and the truth is, lots and lots of people are perfectly happy in their less than well designed homes. Some people are house geeks but most people are not and much as you/we may itch to 'show them the light' it's ok to let it go and sincerely wish them well in their home.

  • virgilcarter
    9 years ago

    As a retired architect and university professor turned full-time painter, I'm reminded of a historical saying about painting, "Painting is easy when one doesn't know how, but very hard when one does!"

    The same (or more) may be said about architecture.

    Hope it works out well for your relatives. Sounds like they may be happy.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    9 years ago

    I haven't built a home and have not been in the position you are in, so take what I have to say with that in mind. I'm just coming at it from the point of view of relationships. If I were building a house and didn't realize that the person I was working with was less qualified than I imagined and I had a friend who was in the know, I would want them to caution me about what I might be getting into.

    Only you can figure out whether this couple will actually listen to you, or if they are so far along in this project that they will see your comments as interference. At the same time, I would probably still say the bare minimum regardless of whether they take what you've said to heart. You at least want to give them a chance to reconsider before they make a very costly mistake.

    If you have serious concerns about the 'designer' that they are working with, that they do not have the skills necessary and/or that you anticipate that the building process will be fraught with distressing incidents, overruns of the budget, and delays because of that, then I would speak up now, before they go ahead with it. I would think about what you will say carefully, to give them confidence that you know what you are talking about and also to give them a graceful way of ignoring you, if that is what they choose to do.

    I would not comment on design ideas that you just don't like or disagree with, but rather something important, like the windows on the exterior of the house, looking symmetrical, or some other design idea that will create a house that is less valuable might be something you should bring up, but always leaving them the choice to ignore you. Just give them the best reason you can for why you disagree with the design choices.

    Does this couple realize that you have experience and/or expertise that might be valuable to them? I'm surprised they didn't ask you for input at an earlier point. If they would rather not involve friends/family in their design process, that I would think is not unusual. Butâ¦if they were working with someone more qualified, you wouldn't have to worry or butt in. Maybe you know someone they could work with that is qualified and could suggest they just consult with someone more qualified before going ahead.

  • Leeluu
    9 years ago

    Did they show you the plans in an effort to solicit feedback? If they did not clearly ask for advice, I would not give any. They are excited and proud of the home they designed, and wanted to share those feelings.

    People have different tastes in houses. I posted plans here looking for feedback, took some of the advice, and left the rest knowing that what I liked wasn't the best design but was what my husband and I liked. However, if my family tried giving me critiques, there could have been hurt feelings as depending on the family member, I may have been looking for validation or someone just to share my excitement with.

  • dekeoboe
    9 years ago

    In the end, it's their project, and a lot of people like things that I would hate.

    This. There are lots of things suggested here that I would just hate or do not ring true for our lifestyle. I look at it as your reality is not my reality. Lots of people do not care if their garage is proud of the house. Some people care what their house looks like from the outside and some do not worry so much about that, but rather focus on how the interior will meet their needs. If they are not trying to win any awards with their design, it doesn't really matter. That's why it is a custom build. Them being happy with the house is what matters in the end.

    Your husband pointing out that the facade and floor plan did not match, it the kind of thing that is very helpful whether you care for the design or not. Most people will appreciate hearing that type of comment.

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    You point them in the direction of this forum. That way, the things that need to get said, are said. And you don't bear the brunt of the hurt feelings. Just tell them, "The BAH Forum on Gardenweb was soooo helpful in helping us to think through how our house would live before we even broke ground. It was so much easier and cheaper to change things on paper than in the middle of the project.."

    If it's as bad as you say, the multiple people will point out the problems. When there is a consensus of strangers, it often helps people to see more clearly. Or, at least confirm that it's really really what they want, despite the drawbacks.

  • eaga
    9 years ago

    I was thinking that you might try to point them to a neutral third party, and I really like lwo's suggestion to direct them here. That bit about the interior plans not matching the exterior plans seems like a huge deal and will need to be addressed even if they decide to stay with their other design choices.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Well, the relatives are out of state and we don't see them but once every several years, so it's not surprising that we weren't solicited for help during the process.

    I so didn't want to be discouraging as they were as excited as kids on xmas. But I did use the "you might want to think about" phrase. We also suggested that they mentally walk through the house doing their normal tasks...getting up in the morning, making breakfast, doing laundry...to make sure the floor plan worked for their lifestyle. They live in a far more rural area than we do so large barns and garages are more common...

    I couldn't quite control myself though when she was pointing out how much she wanted people to see the bay window when they drove up the driveway, and I said, "But people don't come in through the bay window...they come in through the front door!"

    Bite your tongue, Annie, bite your tongue!!

  • LE
    9 years ago

    Who gave them the idea that their house could be built in 3 months, I wonder? This sounds like such a disaster waiting to happen! I agree about the difference between the things that are just not my taste and the things that are just not reality-based-- those will bite them, no matter what!

  • chicagoans
    9 years ago

    What l-w-o said. I think it would be a gift from you to them to mention the forum as a great way to get input - for free - from some folks who are experienced architects, builders, or have experience planning their own custom homes. They can choose to take the gift or not.

    Talk up the kitchens forum too. Personally I'd use the approach of 'I want you to get the most for your money by making your house / kitchen as functional and comfortable as possible.' (FWIW, I wish I had found the forums before we did a large addition and complete kitchen reno. I'm happy with my house and kitchen and I just read for fun now, but sometimes wonder 'what if'...)

    Now that we have an edit function, you can change your original post if you're afraid they'll figure you out.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I don't think it will be of much use now as I think they are decided...I didn't get a strong sense that they were still flexible. I got a strong sense of this is where we're going and we need to get started now!

  • galore2112
    9 years ago

    There are some things that appear to be major mistakes (like the mismatch of window placement to floorplan) and I would point this out without the need for diplomacy. Because objective mistakes don't require diplomacy, just polite conversation.

    Other things that are more subjective, like the garage ("And he was so pleased and possessive of his garage!"), I would leave alone. I mean, he is already pleased and possessive of his garage so he really likes the way it looks. Isn't that the whole point of a custom house, that it is made to one's exact tastes? The same with the kitchen or the bay window. If they love the design (and it's not functionally broken or unbuildable), why interfere?

    [all this assumes they don't build for resale]

  • shifrbv
    9 years ago

    Some people like three car garage and some hate.

    If you own a boat, boat storage is major pain ... It is costly, unsecure, etc....
    So I do not blame him for large garage.

    Personally if I need to store large boat or tractor .... I would use carriage house garage...

    http://www.summitcustomhomeskc.com/bristol-ridge-floor-plan

    This URL is example of garage house. But a lot of folks like these. Architecturally some may be lacking, but functional.

    =============================

    As far as your question:

    Never say that it is outrageous, bad, ugly or their architect is incompetent...

    I would rather use "seed of doubt" technique:

    1) Say: Our other friend had similar layout and told us they wish they did xyz....

    2) Is this window looks just a little off-center

    3) Tell her how much you like her kitchen, and state that may be by placing dishwasher on the opposite side of the island allow you to avoid jumping over it to put dishes away.

    4) I read in the magazine... having pantry increasing house value....

    5) I really like this architect... May be he can adjust just one little thing... The front facade.

    6) I love long, narrow and dark hallways. Just don't invite Cindy, she may not get thru especially if you consider adding chair rail or wall paneling.

    7) This house elevation looks exactly like our old 1927 barn. I am sure these designs will return in the next 30 - 50 years.

    Here is a link that might be useful: SummitCustomHome

  • nepool
    9 years ago

    I always use the fake friend story- "My friend did this and she really regrets it"

    Even still- some people hear what they want to hear. My brother is building and he and his wife were talking about granite for the kitchen and marble for the bathrooms. I told them several time, "be careful with marble" its VERY finicky- everything shows up, etc... do some research. It t may be fine, but you need to be OK with spots that may not disappear, especially in the 2 year old's bathroom!

    They did nothing of the sort because they assumed marble was like granite - wipes right up. Well, right before move in, the family went over for a cleaning party, and someone was cleaning the bathroom and soaked up that marble with a lot of water. After it dried up, she couldn't believe that the giant water spots would not come out. She said, how do I get this out. I said you don't- you'll get used to it- It's Marble!

    They did not care to listen- I also did not shove it down their throats (I did mention it several times though) but they had made their choice- she like the way it looked. And now she hates it.

  • shifrbv
    9 years ago

    My "friend" learned the same lesson when he spilled green Listerine on the newly installed marble counter-top in the apartment he used to live decade ago.

    Green stain in the morning looked less than attractive.


  • cricket5050
    9 years ago

    Difficult situation to be in sometimes.

    Me? I want to get as much advice as possible before spending money and finding out it is too late to make changes. I research so much that I tend to my myself crazy sometimes. Overall, making educated discussions are important before I start a project - not after.

    However, I have a friend who researches nothing. She is building a custom house and she makes all her decisions on the fly. I have made some suggestions based on my experience with products but usually she plows forward with her own ideas. I cannot tell you how many times in the past she has said "I can't believe I did this or bought that...etc"

    Some people don't look for advice since they trust everyone who is involved in their project.

  • sweet_tea_
    9 years ago

    Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. So unless there were any glaring flaws, doors banging into each other, ect. I'd probably just leave it alone and be happy for them.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    9 years ago

    Annie,

    I would send an email along these lines.

    Dear >>>>
    It was so nice of you to stop by, we really enjoyed your visit blah blah blah. It was great to see your houseplans! What a fun and exciting time! We remember it all too well. I think we must have reworked our plans a zillion times trying to make sure the house would work the way we wanted once all was said and done. There's nothing like having a custom built house!

    By the way, if you want me to, I'd be happy to be an "extra set of eyes" and look over the plans more closely for you (maybe point out some of the things we learned, or just toss ideas out). I don't know if you are ready to go and just dying to start yet, or if you are still tweaking. Either way we are happy to take a closer look if you think that might be useful to you!

    blah blah other niceties,
    Annie

    IMHO, that way you leave the door open for them. However, if they do come back to you for help, DO NOT tear apart their plans. Lord knows most of us have peccadilloes in our custom plans, for whatever combination of reasons. Start with the glaring stuff and see how that goes.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks, mtnrd, but they are ready to go and the only changes they will make are minor ones. She was accepting of a few comments, like about the front door design, but he was firm. He's very concerned about budget and doesn't want to change a thing....I think he's afraid that if a change costs more money, it will come out of the size of his garage.

    Frankly, IMO, the plan is so uncomfortable that it really can't be fixed without shredding. And I think they were really looking more for validation than critique. I suspect it will be what it will be. Perhaps if we'd seen the plans earlier in the process, but alas it didn't happen....

    I'm sure they'll be happy with it anyway...they are building on a hill with a fab mountain view, so they'll have that.