I can't say exactly for sure yet, but while waiting for the geothermal to be hooked up and running, we had to use the backup electric heatstrips.

And of course it was probably our coldest month of the year. We are heating I am guessing 5500 sf or so, stacked on 3 levels, and keeping temps between 60 and 65, for the most part. Figured it was going to kill us, but it was only $169.

We are central missouri. We just switched over to the geothermal, but the weather has been much warmer now, and it is holding the temperature inside, so it hardly runs. So that is a good thing :-)

We are not all spray foam. We did some spray foam in some 2 x 6 walls and some 2 x 4. We also did some cellulose in the attic and some batts in various places.

I will say though, that we walked around the top two floors last night and it was 66 and 67 in there. And then we went downstairs, and while going down the last set of stairs, I could feel it getting warmer. And warmer and warmer. The basement felt like an oven to me. So I went and checked, and it had been bumped up to 70. Felt like 90! :-) Compared to our rental house, it is set on 75 and it is comfortable enough but there are moments it seems chilly.

Yes, but we still didn't know when we went to install it how much it would pay off. With our prior home, we were accustomed to $350-$500/mo in the winter for 3500 sq ft.

We are in S.E. Louisiana, we installed foam also. The winters are usually mild, a bit colder this year, although nothing like you folks up north! Summers are very hot and humid. Our heating and A/C bill averages just under $100 month for 3000 sq ft home
Yes expensive initially, but well worth the monthly savings!

Same here...we used a spray foam insulation "envelope" in 2x6 construction. DH was obsessive about sealing/caulking all possible gaps and seams. We have geothermal heat for cool days and a woodstove in the main living area that we use for cold weather. Here in central VA, our February electric bill was less than $80 during a very cold and snowy month while friends and co-workers reported $400-$600 bills during the same period. Our indoor thermostat reads about 70F and we have been slumming around in T-shirts while watching NCAA basketball. Yes, a big investment upfront, but we're betting that future utility rates are not going DOWN.

". . . we used a spray foam insulation "envelope" in 2x6 construction. DH was obsessive about sealing/caulking all possible gaps and seams. We have geothermal heat for cool days and a woodstove in the main living area that we use for cold weather." Ditto for our house . . .

. . . and then we used cellulose to fill in the 2x6s. We also did ICF walls for the lower level, the first floor, and the garage, put 2" of XPS under the LL slab, put 1" of XPS on the outside of the dormers, have geothermal, and also solar hot water. Our heating, cooling, and hot water cost for one year was less than $800 total. DH still has some fine tuning to do that should drop the cost another $100. We have around 3500 sf on the 1st & 2nd floors, plus a large lower level walkout in SE Michigan.

We keep the temp set at 73 during the cold/cool season, and 78 during the summer, but the a.c. almost never goes on. We have deciduous trees on all sides, so we get sun through the windows during the cooler times when there are no leaves, but they block the sun during the warmer months. Unfortunately, our main views out the back are to the northwest, so our larger windows there cost us during the winter.

It is SO comfortable!!!

Anne

Using foam insulation is a waste of money compared to other tried-and-true types like fiberglass and cellulose always.

Just because the original poster opted for spray foam does not mean foam insulation has any better qualities than fiberglass or other similar products.

In fact, and in most cases. foam isnulation not only costs far more than any other type of insulation to install,...it has a much longer PAYBACK PERIOD before one sees any savings in energy costs.

Simply put, foam insulation cannot save anyone any money anytime by installing it under any circumstance.

Those who claim differntly simply LIE!.

I don't know the exact science behind it, manhattan42, but my wife and I built a 1500 sq ft home in 2007 in SW Louisiana with cellulose insulation in the walls and blown fiberglass in the attic. It was all electric and our utility bill was generally between $100 and $125. We built a new 3100 sq ft home in SE Louisiana in 2009 and did spray foam in all the walls and the roof deck. Instead of 1 electric A/C, we now have three. Our electric bills are still $100 to $125. The A/Cs in the new home are the same brand and same SEER. If that's not saving money, I don't know what is.

So it sounds like what we're seeing isn't all that unusual compared to those of you who also built "tight" homes. I would be hard pressed to go with anything else if we built again.

We keep the thermostat at 68 and with all the southern exposure, the house creeps up to 72 by mid-day.

in most cases. foam isnulation not only costs far more than any other type of insulation to install,...it has a much longer PAYBACK PERIOD before one sees any savings in energy costs.

That's why you have to pick and choose where to use it. So, for instance, you get spray and batt combinations. I use it at rims--faster, cheaper and more effective than other choices--and on basement walls, again, faster and more effective than foam board and cheaper to install on a commercial basis where capable general labour runs $14-$20 an hour.

i am happy with my foam decision.2500sq ft up kept at 74 plus a 2500sq walkout basement kept in the 50s. heated with a 3.5ton goodman ashp. we foamed the walls with 3.5 inches of closed cell foam and 15 inches of cellulose in the attic. the highest bill during a very cold period of jan and feb was $309. that is everything for an all electric house.
as far as additional cost it was an extra 3000 to go foam over blown in cellulose in the walls including rim joists which have to be foamed in any case.

i forgot to add. i live in the mountians of western south dakota. not exactly a warm climate.

"Our average heating bill, in upper new england, is $100/mo for our 2000 sq ft home."

Even comparing heating billy year to year is not an accurate way of determining savings.

You need to at least account for the number of degree days in each year involved for the months being compared.

You can't ever attribute everything to foam. Foam is a great insulator and an even better stop for infiltration. But foam is expensive, and most of the time you are not getting a reasonable payback. You will always find people who paid only $1000 more for foam and their heating bill is $50 for a 5,000 sq foot house. But the rest of us should not feel unworthy because the payback for foam tends to be really long. My attic estimate was $8000 and it was predicted to save $200 a year....

"But the rest of us should not feel unworthy because the payback for foam tends to be really long."

I hear you- it's all about trade-offs and opportunity cost. On this board I've felt like I need to justify upside down and backwards why we went with a small house (with a large family) when everyone was sounding off about "needing" 8000 st ft. To each their own....I filter a lot more here than I used to....

mdev, did you go with open or closed cell foam? How thick was it sprayed? We're leaning toward four inches of open cell in the walls and I can't remember how much in the rafters.

Hi- I have to find my paperwork on the foam....but I remember closed cell 3-3.5" in all of the 2x6 walls- except interior walls of course- and substantially more in the attic. We also insulated both walls of the garage, as it's under the main roof. It stayed (relatively) warm in there all winter. The R-value seemed lower than I was expecting for the foam, but I've come to understand that R-values aren't everything. I think that's part of the reason we were so pleased with the low energy bills- we just didn't know for sure how tight the house would end up being.

The estimate we received for foam was 300% higher than for fiberglass (R21 walls, R38 ceilings). The calculated payback period was 20 years. We went with fiberglass.

I'll jump in with my two cents worth. The type of insulation is not the only factor - just as important is the quality of the job. Our builder said the home was built with blown in fiberglass to R38 in the attic. Recently we had an insulation contractor come in to do an estimate to increase the insulation to R50. What he found was appalling.

There were places where workers had pulled the insulation away to do electrical work and didn't repair their damage to the insulation. In hard-to-reach areas there was considerably less insulation than the amount needed to reach R38. There were some small places where there was actually no insulation on outside walls. In the 'box' built for the fireplace insert, there was no insulation at all. So our family room was always so cold! I attributed it to the tall ceiling and wall of windows. In the return air ductwork in the attic, while it was insulated, there were so many places for air leaks.

Our insulation contractor first hand-patted down the blown-in fiberglass insulation. Then they blew in cellulose to R50. Then also sprayed foam over the return air ductwork and at any junction where air could enter such as at the end of the joists.

Our home is 4000 sq feet which includes a finished basement and located in central Indiana. Our builder had a good reputation and we had the home inspected, even though it was new, before we moved in. No one commented on the condition of the attic insulation.

I know to accurately compare the savings we'll see with this improved insulation, I need to track degree heating (or cooling) days, etc. That is more than I want to tackle! What I do know is, this winter has been brutal here in the Midwest and our bill last month was $80 less than the same time last year, and the month before was $60. The insulation job included more than I listed here and was $3000. Yes, even with some energy tax credit, payoff will take a while. But the comfort level of our home is SO much better - even the wind noise has decreased! We used to sit in the family room and hear the wind roar down the fireplace box - now we know why.....there was no insulation in there....it was like an open window to the attic.

Excellent insulation is like putting money in your pocket every month for the life of your house! How many things in your house pay you back every month?

"and then we used cellulose to fill in the 2x6s. We also did ICF walls for the lower level, the first floor, and the garage, put 2" of XPS under the LL slab, put 1" of XPS on the outside of the dormers, have geothermal, and also solar hot water. Our heating, cooling, and hot water cost for one year was less than $800 total. DH still has some fine tuning to do that should drop the cost another $100. We have around 3500 sf on the 1st & 2nd floors, plus a large lower level walkout in SE Michigan."

JimandAnne_in Michigan: I saw that you live in SE michigan. Where in SE Michigan? I live in West Bloomfield, MI and planning to build a house here. I am looking for some information about Geo thermal. My builder says that it will be expensive than the payout. How did it turnout for you. Would you mind recommending any particular installers if you are close to the area I live?

vidyaram,

We're about 17 miles north of Ann Arbor. We used Michigan Energy in Whitmore Lake just east of US23 between 6 & 8 Mile Roads. They do lots of geothermal in the A2 area (so they can up their price), and we'd talked to them at several home shows --Washtenaw County, Novi, maybe others--in the years leading up to our build. We also had talked with a couple of other places that did gt that would have cost less, but we felt like ME really knew their stuff and had a better track record. The last time we saw them, they said they were really busy due to the govt incentives. There are quite a few contractors jumping in as the economy has tanked, green everything has been touted, and incentives have been offered, so be careful!

Geothermal is expensive and is not cost effective for lots of years --I forget how many. We're retired, so won't see the real payback. We did it because we liked the concept, figured energy prices would only increase, had the space for the horizontal loops (4 in our case), and we've both always wanted an energy efficient home. We basically gave up our plans for extensive retirement travel and put that money towards building the house we really wanted.

You can email me via the link under "Clippings" on this post if you have more questions specific to Michigan and would like to discuss it with my husband and include your phone number and a time that is good to reach you. I warn you though, he is a fanatic about energy efficiency--it's one of his retirement hobbies, and he can dump a LOT of information on you!!!

Anne

mdev, I'm currently planning a 2000 sq ft house for a large family in upstate NY and I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one feeling battered for my choices. We're also planning to do spray foam and were planning on doing geothermal but after getting an initial quote now I'm questioning that. I just wanted to say "amen" to your quote about people having very strong opinions about what is "necessary" and to let you know others are going the same route as you. Thanks for the numbers in regards to your insulation performance.

Anne
Thank you so much for all the information which you gave me! I forgot to login today and didn't see any posts at all.
You are right about the cost of geo thermal. We don't know for how long we will stay in this house because of DH's job but I am like you. So, I'll talk to my husband and show all the details and will get back to you. It is so very kind of you to give me so much information and a way to get in touch with you too!

We just spray foamed a 3000 sq ft house we fully renovated.., cost about $7200. Can't wait to get our first gas bill, should be very low. We are not only saving on gas heat, we are also saving on the electric for the blower motor and electric for ac. Foaming is the best as long as you don't get ripped off on the quote,. We got 4-5 estimates, one estimate was 25 grand. As in all things, chooses wisely.