Hands down, without a doubt, go with Hardi.

Don't turnaround, drop the vinyl and don't think twice.

Yes, the hardi is more exensive - but it will more than pay for itslef in lower utility bills and longer life - my guess is you wont have to replace or paint it in your time in the house. Vinyl will look like crap in 5 years, plus it pops, cracks and just overall looks very poor in comparison (my opinion)

Sorry - but you will get what you pay for if you go vinyl - I dont even care if its insulated - its still insulated vinyl. Thats kind of like putting lipstick on a pig.

Too many people buy cheap (be it appliance, furnaces, etc) when a little xta $$ up front saves money in the long run.

FYI

Over 15 years, James Hardie ColorPlus Products will save on average $5,000 in painting costs compared to site painting unfinished James Hardie Products, and $10,000 in painting costs compared to wood siding. *

James Hardie Siding Products with ColorPlus Technology provide the #1 Return on Investment and superior siding value for remodeling projects according to Remodeling MagazineÂs annual "Cost vs. Value Report" (2007).
Throughout the country, homeowners with James Hardie Siding save an average of 14% on their insurance compared to vinyl, which adds up to $263 on average each year. **

Eliminates the need for an additional contractor (painter), which adds on average 5 days to your project.
Painting requires optimal weather conditions, free of wind, rain, and humidity. With James Hardie with there is no waiting for the weather to finish your home.

*actual costs savings may vary. Based on average repainting cost of a 3,000 sq ft home.

**actual cost savings may vary. Based on average insurance costs of $1,900 a year.

Cookpr,

Can you explain how Hardiplank will "pay for itslef [sic] in lower utility bills?"

I'm not aware of hardiplank providing any sort of insulation value.

klabio

I received a discount on my home insurance as Hardi-board is rated equal to a brick home.

"I'm not aware of hardiplank providing any sort of insulation value."

Everything has an insulation value.
Even plain old wood is R-1 per inch.

It is to late for me to go look up cement siding, but it going to be higher than 1/8 inch of vinyl. They are adding some more insulation on the vinyl to make up for the very small R value it has.

Brickeye, I'm sure you're right, but the poster made claims that fiber cement siding would pay for itself in lower utility bills. That seems like a serious stretch and I can't imagine the payoff calculation working out. I googled "R value fiber cement" and came up with an R-Value of 0.15.

There are many reasons to pick fiber cement but I can't imagine lower utility bills is one of them.

I just had my high end vinyl replaced, 6 year old Certainteed. faded terribly bad, when they took it off alot of it broke since it had become britlle. took 8 months of battling with them to get them to replace it.

soooo even high end might be junk

Does anyone here have real-life, long-term experience with fiber cement siding? Specifically, I am wondering if the Colorplus, which is guaranteed, I think, for 15 years, will actually need repainting in 15 years? For such an extensive process compared to site painting with BM, Behr, Cali, etc., that is warranteed for 10 years, I wonder if you really get more than 15 years?

We are facing the same dilemma. After 20 years of keeping paint on an antique house, DH does NOT want to ever have to paint a house again...and we should be in new house for the next 20+ plus years. If vinyl would have to be replaced in that time, anyway, then paying for another paint job would probably make sense, if it had to be done. But...will it really?

I think exterior materials and their longevity is dependent on geographic location despite mfgr's claims /warranties. Roofing, sidings, paints all seem to have different life spans in different parts of the country. Composition shingles dont come close to their claimed lifespan here in the mojave desert and vinyl sidings are rare because it gets brittle and cracks although there is a house w/ vinyl siding and trim here in town that has held up well and has been on there for over ten years. I personally dont care for vinyl but am surprised that particular house has held up in the dry of the desert.

What do you mean by "composition shingles"? Do you have them and did they fail prematurely?

Still interested in actual, real-life experience with the lifespan of prefinished fiber cement color, particularly in the NE or northern midwest type of climates.

I have the same questions as hadley. Anybody?

i am assuming SE is talking about comp shingles on a roof. Your 40 yr composition shingle roof will not last 40 yrs in the real world.

Hey Mikeyvon, Yeah I should have stated i was just using composition roofing shingles as an example to the others. Thanks!

Anyone with paint peeling/cracking on HardiePlank Colorplus lap siding [the pre-painted stuff] please email me. Particularly interested in Canadian and the Northern States.
thanx.

Ponydoc, your new old house is beautiful.

csimpson...I too live in Louisiana, North Louisiana, and I'm hearing from the builders that hardi-plank is not that much higher than vinyl but the labor could be higher. Not many in the area that can install this correctly. I am building a 2000-2100 sf home and I'm curious ...is the price you gave for the entire house or front only? A lot of the homes in my area use it only on the front of the house and brick on the sides and back.

I know I'm chiming in a bit late here, but I have newly installed Hardie as well (Monterey Taupe), and we absolutely love it. As everyone else has mentioned, it was more expensive than vinyl and cost more to install, but it looks great on the house, and we anticipate it holding up well over time. There are definitely some nice vinyl products out there, Cedar Impressions for example, but in the end of the day, I agree that cement board is an all around superior product.

I have been looking at a lot of new construction and talking to a lot of builders over the past several months (St Paul, MN area). Nothing has touched the quality, look, and durability of HardiePlank siding. It is well worth the $$$, even at three times the cost of vinyl.

Built our house just about two and half years ago and used the factory finished ColorPlus HardiPlank product. For the most part, the house looks beautiful, however, there are sections where the finish is literally peeling off to the bare bones. The company has been here to look at the problem and has promised to make due on the warranty and replace the affected boards this Spring. We did a lot of research before choosing this product, but wished I had looked on this site first, where I've learned from a lot of people who are having the very same problem.

Comparing Hardi Board to the Vinyl Siding that is foamed backed, is like comparing apples to oranges. The foam on the back of the vinyl holds shape and does not "wave" and it does add an insulation factor.....I have seen this installed on several homes, and if you can find the color you want, it looks great.

We are thinking of going with high end vinyl(Craneboard) or Hardi but can't seem to come to a decision. Our main concern is the siding going to last 25-30 years? We don't want to end up selling our house and having to replace the vinyl. Anyone have any insight?

KandKwi - the hardi has to be screwed to the ICF. That adds some cost. Not sure about the vinyl - but I wouldn't think that nailing vinyl into ICF is going to be durable.

I had to special order screws - the installer specified a flatter head screw than the standard. There was a specific screw on the Nudura website that cost a lot from the one quote I got - I was able to order something comparable at a local supplier for around a third less. We purchased all the materials (including the colorplus hardi) - that saved a lot. Our installer was one of the few good subs we have had - it looks great.

I did not price the high-end vinyl, but have seen too many houses with vinyl damage after hurricanes to bother with the cheaper stuff. That, and the trim work always looks cheap!

BTW, a couple of weeks ago, I saw a mobile home with vinyl log siding. Sweet! ;)

I've read through this post and I'm surprised that no one has mentioned LP's composite siding as an alternative to fiber cement or vinyl siding. Play the video and watch the sledge crack the fiber cement siding (I know, sort of and extreme example unless you live in tornado or hurricane alley and then don't actually get hit directly).

We have aluminum siding on the upper gable portion of the house and brick below. Thankfully, the aluminum is white and so even the chalky, fading 1982 paint still looks good. Also, aluminum dents easily and so kids playing ball and Frisbee have not dented it because it is up high. This is not the case with the neighbor's fully aluminum sided house.

Here is the link, and no I don't work for LP or their distributors. I do support sustainable forestry and this product is made from a renewable resource, aspen trees, in Wisconsin:

Here is a link that might be useful: LP Smart Siding

If your going to do vinyl, crane makes some good stuff. Up to a 7 inch reveal so it looks like hardy, foam backing that adds insulation and sound deadening, and very durable due to the foam. The vinyl is thick and would think it would take a pretty hard hit to damage it at all. Mine is the Crane double 7. For size reference, the front lower windows are 6 feet tall.

RE: the question of HardiePlank finish durability: I live in an apartment complex, while my house project drones on forever, with 12 buildings finished from 1992-94. According to the maintenance super, who was hired at that time, the Hardie siding on each (@ 3 stories) was painted after installation at that time and has not been re-painted.

This is just outside of Atlanta, GA. He says the only problems with it have come from rot where the contractor installed it, on garages, "too close" to the ground.

I'm would take the Hardi Plank in a heartbeat but for the cost (anticipated; I have no bids back yet), and the chance for the premium vinyl finish to outlast (I'm using white) even the Hardie finish.

Because the numbers haven't been posted yet: the premium vinyl is .55 thick (vs. .40 for the standard) from Royal. Certainteed and Fullback advertise a R-5 value, and all three offer a 3/4" profile with a finish that looks as "convincing" as the Hardieplank (though I don't personally find that very convincing ... or relevant in my case). The added thickness, depth of profile, and insulation add considerable rigidity. And the warranty, fwiw, is substantial.

I'll post the result of my bids, which should be returned this week.

JWilson

You'll probably save on insurance with Hardie.

We have hardi and our insurance company rates our home the same as a brick home.

I visited a local lumber supply store (not a big box) to price Hardie Plank with Color Plus and Certainteed premium vinyl siding with foam backing. The "manager" who handles pricing is on vacation but the guy who waited on me called their supplier. Even so, I wonder about the numbers, because the Certainteed vinyl prices out as 1/3 more expensive!

Check my numbers:

A Hardie Plank w/Color Plus @ 8.25" (coverage 7") x 12' is priced for $10.53. This comes, if I do my arithmetic right, to $1.50/sf.

A Certainteed vinyl with foam backing @ R-5 in a double 5" or double 4" exposure comes to $195/square ($1.95/sf).

Even if my numbers are right, I'm not sure they're useful for anyone who doesn't live in my area .... I also went to a contractors web forum and found a discussion comparing costs for the product from (pre-building bust) 2006, and prices seemed to be all over the place, influenced mostly by geography.

Contractors in NJ were getting very high labor/matl numbers and KY contractors were barely half of those numbers. Another influence was height: contractors were charging additional for work above 8 feet.

In my own case, I'm going to check these numbers as soon as I can find another lumber store that sells both products. If it turns out remarkably different, I'll get back.

JWilson

My experience says you need an inch of foam to get R5. Does it have that? If you have 2 x 4 walls with pink fibreglass you'll have R13 and if you have an outer sheathing thay adds another 4, so thats at R17, very acceptable. As a biased Hardie user, Hardie siding stands for durable, good quality. Vinyl siding stands for cheapo. But thats just me!

@ srercrcr --

The vinyl is hardly cheap! It looks very good to my eye. AND If you read my post above you'll see that the premium, foam back vinyl is more expensive than Hardie w/Color Plus, by nearly a third!

I confirmed the prices yesterday with another lumber company.

For my own project, like you I've decided to go with the Hardie and Color Plus because I'm sure of its durability.

In addition, the vinyl requires 4-7 proprietary trim pieces to fit right; Hardie allows for a lot of flexibility with trim selection.

The mgr of the lumber store yesterday said he supplied the vinyl for a multi-million dollar residence, so I suspect the Certainteed CedarBoard product is something different from what you've experienced. It's cool stuff, but pricey.

(To answer your question: the R value is established through testing, as is the R13 of 3.5 in fiberglass. But as I'm sure you know, neither of them account for real world circumstances -- the fiberglass is corrupted by thermal breaks (studs) and gaps in the install that often lower the actual R value of a wall to something like R9 or 10. In the same way, the vinyl isn't continuous and whatever gaps or loose places between planks would seriously deteriorate the effective R value -- whatever either one do is good, of course, but in the case of the vinyl siding, the purpose of the foam is more directed to keeping it firm so it doesn't have the traditional flimsiness of vinyl.)

JWilson

If I were building a house and had a choice between Hardiplank and vinyl I would chose the Hardiplank without hesitation. If I could not afford the Hardiplank I would make the house smaller so that I could avoid using vinyl. The environmental negatives associated with vinyl are huge.

I would chose almost any other siding whatsoever in place of vinyl. The only thing I can think of that would be worse is asbestos, and it is now illegal.

Rosefolly

Here is a link that might be useful: Environmental impact of vinyl

I've had Hardie for 13 years now, site painted over the pre-primed. Couldn't be more satified. The paint has not peeled, in fact it's bonded so well, it seems like all one.
Someone mentioned rot if too close to the ground. Well the product is mostly cement. I put a cutoff piece of it in water for a day, the "board" had no effects from the water. I guess if I was building today I would consider a composite siding. I have a Trex deck (four years now) and love it.

@ srercrcr

Your experience is true in this area, too.

FYI, Hardie's installation instructions insist on 2" between siding and ground, roof, porch, etc., as the boards will decompose.

I'm looking at the nichiha as well, to add to rosefolly's post, because it uses so much flyash and their manufacturing plant is only a couple of hours from here. The reduced shipping is good for my $$ and reduces the use of petroleum. And the flyash is also a recycling byproduct. Of the several fiber cement product lines, Hardie surely makes less of their commitment to a 'green' product line.

On the other hand, the Nichiha doesn't offer a version of ColorPlus on their plank (though they do on the shakes) so I'd have to pay for six-sided painting onsite.

Yes, I agree that vinyl is a pollutant -- several of the premium products use a considerable voume of recycled vinyl in their manufacture which will green it up an awful lot --

Having seen both products, in many ways they are a wash in my opinion ... except for the inflated cost of the premium, insulated vinyl products. That clinches it for me, I think.

JWilson

DO NOT use vetical vinyl if your house is over 1 story. I had some and the house now has horizontal plus a lot of rot repair from the verical vinyl! Vinyl siding will not keep water off of your house (must be housewrapped) and verical actually holds water in the H channel and could dump it behind as the ends are open. I think horizontal vinyl is junk and vertical vinyl is a disaster!

After years of installing both types of siding here it is quite simple(Hardi siding has a better fire rating that could give you a deduction on insurance and that is the only real advantage. So with that deduction how long will it take to pay for itself)A good grade vinyl siding is just as durable,fade resistant,waterproof,and comes in a wider range of color and options.The installation of vinyl is far more easier then Hardi so alot of so called contractors are installing it incorrect.That gives vinyl a bad name.Hardi siding can rip or tear with settlement of homes.I have seen deteriation of sheathing in several hardi installations.It cannot be in contact with roof shingles or brick.And last but not least it does wick moisture.Vinyl siding does not wick water and can come in contact with other surfaces,vinyl also expands and contracts better with structual settlement.Dollar for dollar I say quality vinyl is superior.Its just like anything else put a big price tag on it and you think its a Rolex.

+1

The biggest issue with Hardie is the guys hanging it.

Seeing it used on new construction is scary if we are talking track built homes. They look like warmed over...you know what, after only a few years.

I have no personal experience with Hardie but we sided our new house with Certainteed fiber cement in 2005. Cracks were noticed within the first 20 mo which were blamed on settling. The co replaced the boards but not the labor.

Since then we have had cracking, both full thickness and hairline all over the house. The entire south and west side of the house is faded. We are in limbo until we figure out what is going to happen with our siding. We have since found out that the co replaced a good part of the sand in their formula with fly ash beginning in 2002, which has been speculated by some to be the source of their problems.

I wonder if Hardie has had any of these problems. Is all fiber cement crap?

Oh and the Certainteed rep was on site teaching our builder how to install it since it was their first time installing it. But, it was done by the book and beautifully.

While I think the Certainteed FC is prettier than Hardie, most guys that install it prefer the Hardie. Some of the guys I know have remarked that the Certainteed is a bit brittle on the edges.

The "supposed" best stuff out there is Nichiha.

I would choose a fiber cement product such as Hardieboard over a vinyl product of any quality under any circumstances. I personally would even reduce the size of the house if that were the only way to afford it.

Vinyl is an environmentally nasty substance, both in the manufacturing process and afterwards. IMO, it should only be used when it is the only material that will actually function for the particular purpose.

I would not use it for window frames, either.

Rosefolly

Never mind.....thought better of it.

This post was edited by millworkman on Tue, Aug 20, 13 at 15:58

Rosefolly,

Every material has its environmental drawbacks and implications...including Hardie and FC siding.

Depending on the material it is being compared to, vinyl has less of an environmental impact that several of its commonly thought of "green" equivalents.

I am not suggesting that you or anyone that doesn't like vinyl put it on your home, but the fact is that unless you are going to start building your homes out of mud, clay, straw bales, etc. nothing about the construction process is very when looking at large scale buildings.

I would love for everyone to build a lesser impact home but the economic feasibility of that just does not exist in the real world.

What we can do is build smarter and more efficient homes and lessen the long term energy consumption of one of, if not, the largest consumer of energy.

Most vinyl used in building is uPVC and therefore lacking in the dioxin and phalate content that is commonly associated with health issues.

Actually I have seriously considered building a home of light clay and may do so someday.

Ideally we should not be building with materials that will not, when we are done with them, be able to return to components that existed in the environment before we intervened. Stone, wood, metal, even ceramic or concrete can eventually break down to ancestor substances. Many plastics will not. The ones I personally object to most vigorously are the vinyls and the styrofoam-related ones.

On the other hand, plastics can do wonderful things that other materials simply cannot match. My personal code is that they should be used only when they are the best material, and not when they are merely the cheapest.

But I do not make decisions for others, or even want to. You will note that I said what I would do, not what Larimie should do. (In fact, it is just now that I am noticing what an old thread this is. By now the decision has long since been made.) As always, each person must make his or her own decision. It is a wide world, and there is room for difference of opinion.

Rosefolly

wow, thanks for putting my exact thoughts into more appropriate terms (as I probably would not have been so politically correct).

Rosefolly,

I don't disagree with what you said one bit. Just on the feasibility of it is all.

You are quite right in terms of the end stage life cycle and lack of recycle-ability of the product in most cases.

Sadly, aluminum is not a good option and wood is a maintenance loaded item that many people would fail miserably with.

I agree that the decision is probably long since made but perhaps our conversation and your information will spurn some folks to make alternative considerations of their own.

Take Care and keep on posting.

WoW

Thanks, WoW and Millworkman. I drop in now and then, read and learn, and post here once in a while.

I am a regular on the garden side.

Rosefolly

We've been talking to a builder about a new house in East Central Florida and he says he face nails Hardie Plank siding - for the extra wind load strenth. But talking to other contractors from Orlando (at a home show) they say that face nailing is a not recommended - due to the extra water intrusion path. Looking at the Hardie Plank site it looks like face nailing is an option if wind loads dictate but blind nailing is th preferred option. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with face nailing Hardie plank or has looked at these options? Also, how does the precolored vs primed decision relate to face nailing or does it not play into that decision?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Doug

Hardi was our first choice but when it came down to it, the cost was too high. My parents vinyl is 17yrs old and still looks as great today as it did the day they put it up, with no painting or maintenance other than a cleaning on the porches occasionally. We quoted Hardi but our insurance was not different using it over vinyl. We wanted something that would have very little maintenance, Hardi - while very pretty, does have considerable maintenance and hefty price tag.
Jen

My wife and I ended up going with Hardie Board for our 1913 farm home makeover and we couldn't be happier.

Here is a link that might be useful: You can see our makeover progress pictures here

Looks Fantastic