How will you use your office? I liked the door on the master hall wing better than into the foyer--but it totally depends on if that will be an away room for you, a working room for you, or a client room (so need good access to front door) for you.

I hate the pantry taking up a prime corner in your kitchen/light.

I'm not sure what you are doing with the red square by the powder--are you planning to move the powder to the corner (of the garage?)? As it appears, it appears you have cut off the door from mudroom to great room? That is where I am confused.. What I would *not* do is have a straight shot view from the mudroom to the foyer (if you intended to move that powder.)

I am concerned about bed placement in bedroom #3. Bedroom #3's closet will be problematic as drawn too. I think I would consider putting the closet door there on the bedroom side, so you have a high side and a "low" side of hanging clothes, and not 2 sides that will have to "curve"/angle within the closet with the ceiling.

I'm having trouble visualizing the roof at Bd #2/Bd #4 bath. In Bd2 it says it is a 6ft wall, but it doesn't say anything about the bath in bd 4 being short. Make sure you REALLY understand how things will fit in that little space. Best would be if most of the wall in bd2 was actually full height.

Thank you. I hate so much of this...I am just sick. The up side is I now know exactly the limits of the lot, so creativity is key. Having access to the back yard is a must because we have dogs -- so the side door off the kitchen and the mud room there too is very nice. I like the private porch area and the terrace. I am not thrilled with the parallel counter/island kitchen. Or, the stairs way over yonder .. pity the poor child #4.

The MBR door would lead to the hearth room and the office. I think a secret door? I think the red box is to move the PR down and then a wall or butler thing or beverage place.

I am really just ill. But, it is such a challenging lot because of the narrow feature. However, it is a really great lot considering the area. We will have a super private back yard, mature oak trees, great areas for gardens, room for the dogs to run. A green house, a potting shed, later a fireplace outside.

The town has height restrictions. But, I am thinking if we ditch the high great room ceiling (which I said I didn't want anyway), we can have more wiggle room upstairs. And, I think I need to figure how to get another staircase towards the back to get to the upstairs and the basement.

Anyone -- help. I have a husband, the builder, and the architect saying this is just fine and to move along...I don't think it is fine. We shouldn't be carrying dinner half way across the house when we entertain, which is often and something we enjoy. The pantry just doesn't make sense where it is. The kitchen doesn't seem cook friendly.

I believe a center stair case or another set of back stairs can be fit. I wonder if the DR can become the study, the breakfast room the DR, and the kitchen/breakfast/great room can span the length and somehow fit the MBR entrance to it all gracefully?

nightowlrn-my comment to you is if you don't think it's 'fine' now, you won't later after it's done. I applaud you taking your time. Really. We are at drywall now and low and behold the little things that nagged in the back of my mind then are now in 3D. :( They aren't HUGE but still. We rushed to get going and "it will be fine" and this is what you get: REGRET!

The upstairs looks so complicated with a lot of corners and bumpouts. Expensive, and it might look a little unsettled from the outside, for child in br#4, could you somehow swap the bedroom and bath/closet area? That would put her closer to the hall, and eliminate the extra tunnel into her room. I'm not sure you need another staircase, but if you want one, how about a spiral that wouldn't take up as much space?

Just a little thing, but in the master bath, where will you hang up your towel while in the shower?

If it's going to be somewhat open, the distance to the dining room will actually be kind of nice when entertaining, to block the sights and sounds of the kitchen.

Autumn is very wise. You clearly are not happy, and you know what they say: when mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

1. We shouldn't be carrying dinner half way across the house when we entertain, which is often and something we enjoy.
No you should not, and do not have to. The dining room location is not functional to your lifestyle and will end up a "museum" room. It should be moved to the study or breakfast room area.

2. The pantry just doesn't make sense where it is. The kitchen doesn't seem cook friendly.
Pantry location is wasting valuable rear visibility. Kitchen is not cook or entertaining friendly; unless you don't like your guests as your back will be facing them!

3. I believe a center stair case or another set of back stairs can be fit.
I would most definitely relocate the staircase from the entry to the main living area. It would be an unnecessary use of square footage to incorporate a second staircase.

4. I wonder if the DR can become the study, the breakfast room the DR, and the kitchen/breakfast/great room can span the length and somehow fit the MBR entrance to it all gracefully?
Most definitely!

I know my response does not help with the design. Unfortunately I would need a lot more detailed information to redesign the house. I hope that my response and the other posters have persuaded you to not begin build until you are completely satisfied. Your plan should and can incorporate many of the changes you desire.

I hear you when you say you cannot avoid the GARAGEhouse issue . . . but could you switch the garage to the other side of the house so that the dining room could be closer to the kitchen? It really is so far away that -- if it were my house -- I'd just as soon do away with the dining room altogether and focus on one, nice big casual eating area where you have the breakfast nook.

Or could you do the dining room where the great room is . . . . bump the great room to the right, where the office now stands . . . and have the office in the quiet, isolated area by the front door? I'm liking that idea.

I do not like that you must walk all the way through the kitchen to reach the pantry, nor do I like that the pantry is hogging your prime "backyard" view. I'd move the pantry over to the garage entrance area, which would allow for an expanded breakfast nook . . . perhaps if the kennels moved over to what is the dining room (moving the walls, of course, to keep the kennels as a part of the mudroom), the whole space would work out better.

Or, given that you want the dogs to have access to the back yard, might it make more sense to move the kennels towards the back of the house -- perhaps somewhere between the master suite and the rest of the house? That'd mean the dogs wouldn't have to traipse through the house to reach their kennels.

I'd have privacy concerns about the tub overlooking the terrace. Could a person sitting at the breakfast table perhaps see across the terrace into the bathroom?

Private bathrooms for all the upstairs bedrooms is a very expensive choice.

I agree with the poster who says, DON'T let yourself be pushed into "It'll be fine". You don't go to the expense and trouble of building a house tailored just for your family with the expectation that it'll be "fine". You can buy "fine" ready made.

So -- I have been looking at the footprint. I think I have found a way to put the kitchen in the center overlooking the patio. The GR where the pantry/br area is, the DR where the kitchen is, a hearth room where the office is, the study where the foyer was and the foyer where the DR was. Center stairs, two islands -- one for prep with a sink, one for backing, sitting, casual dining. Not sure if I will miss a true kitchen table.

May end up with the original plan, but certainly worth my efforts. The prep sink is far from the main sink, but will be big enough to wash the pots, etc.

If you are set on your garage placement, no need to read further.

If not, another option might be to have the side-load garage towards the back of the house. So starting from the top right corner going down you would have greenhouse/shed, side load garage, mudroom all on one wing, then House. The House could be pushed forward on the lot to the front setback. As currently drawn, it seems to me that your garage/shed/greenhouse/mudroom functions are unnecessarily spread out. Yes you would have a longer driveway, but to me it would be worth the trade off to have distinct House and Utility areas.

Good luck!

Oaktown - the lot isn't square. It is pie shaped on one side. We weren't aware just how limiting that was going to be. We tried every which way to make it work, but doing it jacked up everything else in very seriously problematic ways. It might not be apparent in the photo - but the dashed lines on the kitchen-greenhouse side is the set back. I ran the architect wild trying every possible iteration. The rules are that we cannot have detached, so it is really limiting.

I have finally found peace with the garage house. In actuality, I will rarely gaze at the front, but I will gaze at the back daily and entertain in the back often. Compromises ....

I am meeting with the builder alone on Friday. I have drawn up plans with a center kitchen that I put above. I have been playing with it all day and have one close to scale that could work. My main concern was the foyer, but by chance I found a photo of what the foyer might look like and I am quite pleased -

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[Craftsman Entry[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/craftsman-entryway-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_741~s_2116) by Bozeman Architects & Designers Locati Architects

This is what I am hoping the hearth side of the kitchen will look like

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[Rustic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/rustic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2111) by Springfield Kitchen & Bath Designers Reico Kitchen & Bath

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[Rustic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/rustic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2111) by Springfield Kitchen & Bath Designers Reico Kitchen & Bath

This is what I am hoping the view to the DR would be like

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[Rustic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/rustic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2111) by Springfield Kitchen & Bath Designers Reico Kitchen & Bath

This would be the view from the kitchen towards the patio and great room.

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[Rustic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/rustic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2111) by Springfield Kitchen & Bath Designers Reico Kitchen & Bath

I have NO idea if I can do this and support the bedrooms up top. The center stairs will change the second floor plan - which wasn't good anyway. The builder and I meet Friday. We will present to the architect for logistics next week if the builder thinks it will look good. He wasn't thrilled with the first try either ....

I assumed that the dashed line represented your buildable area. Just thought you might have the Utility area where the master wing is drawn and have a wide House that encompasses the area where the garage is now drawn. The Utility area certainly could be attached, just a wing. But, there definitely are benefits to having a garage buffer at the front of the house (our garage will be in front too).

Your "Rustic Kitchen" inspiration photos look very nice with the long views! Hope your meeting goes well.

You might want to re-label that area outside of the dining room "landscaping" or something like that :-)

Lol oak town! And don't let the neighbors see that label, either! (When I was a kid, my mom trained the dog to go in the ivy between the neighbors' and our garages.)

I love your kitchen inspiration pictures.

ETA -- I changed what is below, but don't have a photo of it. I have flipped the MBR/Hearth room portion of the house with the dining room/sun room portion. The pantry is now on the garage side, it is a straight shot for us to grab coffee and head out the door. ----

This is a pretty much to scale of the first floor I came up with tonight. I meet with the builder alone tomorrow. Please share your thoughts if you would like regarding this plan. I am not even going to try to figure out the upstairs bathrooms with closets accessible only via the bathroom.

This post was edited by nightowlrn on Fri, Jan 24, 14 at 5:22

Do you want the kitchen to be the main thoroughfare of the house? If not how about switching the great room and the kitchen location?

What do you expect to use the hearth room for vs. the great room?

Would it be better to pull the long master wing in by putting the closet where the hearth room is. You could even make the laundry more accessible to put stuff from the kitchen in there and not have to walk as far as you do now.

My heart goes out to you! I imagine you have not had a moment of mental peace since the design process began. Albeit designing and building a home can be a daunting process, it should be an exciting and enjoyable process. Kudos to you for your diligent effort! My apology if I am out of line in asking why your architect is not designing the floor plan to your specifications? It is the responsibility of the architect or designer to develop a plan that will incorporate your requirements, within the restraints of the lot and your budget. I see that you have made significant changes to the location and size of the rooms. Am I correct that you added a Great Room in addition to the Hearth Room? It may appear as a step backward in the design process; but I would suggest going back to scratch. If you did not begin the design process with a list of definitive "must haves" and "would like if possible" than I would suggest you make a list of each. The list should include desired number of rooms, size, location, location according to each other, proposed usage and functionality, etc. Present these lists to your architect so he/she will have a clear understanding on how to proceed.

Thank you. Yes, we had lists of wants and needs. We discussed last week the architect starting over, but I don't think he "got it." So, the next day I called and told him to stop until I had time to design something. Now that I know the limitations of the property, it helps. The builder is coming over in a few minutes. He was surprised at the architect's lack of creativity as well and he said he has been working on a design. I am hopeful between the two of us we will have something more definitive to give the architect to work with. If not -- we walk and start over.... life goes on either way. This is not going to be cheap and if we have to make too many concessions, we will get something already built and make those concessions for half the price.

nightowl-encouraging that your builder also has ideas, hopefully that will spur something good. I hope that between the 3 parties you can visualize something that meets your lot restrictions and that you LOVE. It is stressful. I remember feeling sick many times. It's such a huge, expensive and permanent project.

Met with the builder. We each had very similar ideas. He is taking mine and his and we meet Sunday to see what he comes up with. He is super excited to build something unique. We are considering putting a scullery/pantry between the south wall of the kitchen and the center stairs going up that can be entered either side. He may have a 2/1 garage configuration that will work, but it is more than likely it will still be 3. Goal is to send a more definitive plan to guide the architect on Monday. Will update in a few weeks. Thank you for all your help.

We refined the plans a bit. Talk to builder again tomorrow.

Next version. Mostly complete. It is what it is -- it hits all our requests and we entertain very comfortably, so this will allow our guests to circulate kitchen, sun room, patio, master hall (door isn't shown), hearth room - repeat. I need to find another foot to the depth of the kitchen to encourage walking thru the window pathway. The builder is going to make the kitchen table slide into the marble island and be on industrial casters. Gonna be slick they say! We placed a tub in the study br because we anticipate that may someday become a nursery or sick room for a parent. Just a few tweaks and thinking of getting rid of the bathtub in the mbr and expanding the one off of the study just a bit. The area off that bathroom is a place for guests to sit and take shoes off and to hang coats, purses on hooks on the br wall side.

It looks pretty good. I am just concerned that all your guests (and certainly the UPS man, etc) will be doing to your mudroom door... You'll need to dress up your front door and walk to it to get people to go that direction.

Also, why do you have 2 doors into the mudroom from outside? That seems like a waste of wall space (and also, the one from the garage door side will probably be the one I would expect your guests to go to. If you can eliminate that one, in particular and just use the side door there, I think it will limit the number of people who go there as your "front" door...

Thanks Kirkhall. We are going to make a circle drive that will hopefully guide people to the front door. There will be a large porch in hopes that gives people a hint. I agree and we are working hard to make the front porch very inviting and obvious. The two doors -- One will open behind a fence to let dogs to a fenced area (landscaping area), the other will open in front of the fence for us and friends so we don't have to go thru the garage. We went back and forth on this, but finally decided we didn't want friends having to go thru the fence gate and didn't want to have to open the gate to let the dogs in and out. Lazy -- I know. The fenced area will have two wide gates -- one to the front yard and garage and one to the back -- for the mower, garden tools, etc.

The builder is going to make the kitchen table slide into the marble island and be on industrial casters.

So the island is just a free standing table rather than an island with cabinets?

The baking island will be set permanently and have power to each side -- a microwave side and a mixer side. The center part will not have power lines in the way. As they were trying to explain it -- the table part, which is 12 inches narrower than the island on each side and table, not counter height, will slide into the island about 24 inches. That will leave room below for drawers, room above for drawers, and room on each side for power. Of course .... they haven't built it yet ....................

Ah. The 2 doors makes perfect sense now. Context is key. :)