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ajpl_gw

lighting in post and beam houses

ajpl
16 years ago

I posted this in the lighting forum but it doesn;t seem to get much traffic so I wanted to try here.

Our current post and beam house has almost no overhead lighting. As per the norm in log and timberframe houses in the 90s (I guess) it is all switchable outlets for lamps or wall sconces and the results suck.

In our new house we're having overhead lights but I'm not sure of the best way to do it. The ceiling consists of heavy beams and planking that creates the structural floor of the upper level of the house. There is no space in between floors to hide electrical boxes or wires. We routered the beams and installed wire prior to laying the floor in the locations we want the lights but now the boxes have to go in.

We can't set the boxes into a beam due to code restrictions and/or our engineering approval so that's out of the question. Basically we have hidden wires leading to visible electrical boxes in the centre of the ceilings. I don't have any photos of the boxes installed but here's one of the wires coming out of the beams.

We need fixtures that cover the box I guess. One solution we've talked about is making a hole in a board that mayches the planks to set the box in and having the board blend in to the ceiling.

I've searched online for solutions but it seems as though most post and beam houses either have false ceilings or go with the wall sconces and lamps like our old house.

Any suggestions?

Comments (17)

  • allison0704
    16 years ago

    Fixtures won't cover the box, but will be attached to the box....not a good solution, imo. Hmmm....without a void between floors or the ceiling/attic, I'm not sure what a good solution would be.

    We have a cathedral ceiling in our great room (sheetrock, insulation, roof). DH was insisting on cans. Electrician wired for cans and had them in place - it was horrible and I knew once the sheetrock went up it would be too late. So I found sconces (4) and DH agreed. They are open top and bottom, metal. Electrician removed cans and shortened the wiring, so it worked out for us. The sconces and two lamps are enough for us at night. There are 2 more lamps in the room if we have company over.

    The electrician kept asking me did I not want to install a box for future chandelier - for me or the next owners (even though they are going to be carrying me out of here!) I said no, because there would have been a box mounted to the side of the center beam. Not a look I wanted. He suggested wrapping it in wood, to match the beam. Maybe that's something you could do. Fixture would mount to box that is covered with wood.

    I hope you'll post pictures of your solutions so others can benefit from your experience.

  • ajpl
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    We're thinking of having the box covered with wood or something. It's not ideal but I can;t live in another house with no light. Some of the sconces are really good and definitely light enough for living room etc but I really want more light in the kitchen this time.

    I will post photos... maybe while I'm experimenting this weekend. DH says not to worry about it yet b/c we're far off from needing it but I can just see us living there with fixtures sticking out of the ugly exposed boxes if he has his way!

  • sierraeast
    16 years ago

    Aipl, You might run this by the electrical forum as one of the pros over there may have expeience on a post & beam project.

  • housewitch
    16 years ago

    Would it be possible to use track lighting? The tracks would run along either the side or bottom of the beams, and you could position the heads however they were most effective for giving light where you need it.

    We used small halogen track lights along the beams in our living room. Ours shine light up onto the wooden ceiling, but they would work as down lights for general illumination if we needed them to. Black tracks and small black heads are visible, but not horribly distracting against our cedar beams. You can see the tracks along the beams in this pic of the ceiling.

    My other suggestion would be to get a lighting designer in there to give you more ideas. I think this is one situation where a professional would be well worth the money to get it right.

  • ajpl
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks sierra! I'll do that.

  • too_picky
    16 years ago

    Housewitch and ajpl would you mind sharing with me what finish you used or are planning to use on your beams? (sorry to hijack the thread). We have antique fir beams and need to provide the painter with a direction for finishing next week. We don't like the glossy polyurethane look, but want to darken the beams and maintain a natural sheen if possible. I haven't found much advice on Gardenweb for finishing beams, but we are thinking about using a Waterlox satin product. Thanks much!

  • ajpl
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    House witch, we're using some track lighting but you still need an electrical box right? That's what we can't hide, where the light unit attaches to the electrical source. Unless you mean the track lights lplug in. We do have one switched outlet for a hanging light but it's not ideal for everywhere in the main level.

  • ajpl
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Too picky, we considered waterlox for our plank flooring and beams and frankly it's extremely expensive. We're DIYing the whole house and money is an issue.

    Our current house is post and beam as well and we had used a product called Olympic Water protection or something like that. This time we used Thompsons. It's an oil based protector that is often used on decks.

    We decided we wanted the beams darker than the floors and ceilings ths time. I chose Miwax Dark Walnut and experimented with mixing it with the Thompsons until I got a mixture I liked. I applied two coats with a car wash puffy thing. I'm really happy with the look. I'll probably oil them before we move in and any time they start looking dull.

    I did find that it wasn't tough enough for the stairs. They were getting banged up a bit so I bought an oil based Satin finish. It changes the look somewhat but it was worth it for such a high traffic area. The beams shouldn't get that kind of wear.

    Here's the beams and floors in our current house with Olympic on them. The deocrations are courtesy of my 10 year old! You can see the floor is really worn after 12 years. We probably would have rejeuvenated them a few years ago if we hadn't been planning a new house. The new owners are putting hardwood down.

  • too_picky
    16 years ago

    Thanks ajpl! That is quite helpful. Your beams are beautiful. Do you have any pictures of the Minwax dark colored beams? I agree that the Waterlox products are ridiculously expensive....it was over $300 for just four gallons to use on our countertops and entry doors. We're still deciding whether to use it for the hardwood floors or not....

  • Flash
    16 years ago

    If I were in your situation, I would build a false beam (hollow inside) that runs perpendicular to the existing structural beams. Then I'd hide the electrical box in the false beams. You may need to run that by code in your area but in my area that's acceptable.

  • ajpl
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    The beams in the original post are actually the dark ones but the photo isn't great for showing it. Here is the area where the plumber made his "mistake". You can see the contrast well.

  • ajpl
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks flash, someone at the electrical forum suggested insterting a non structural beam and routering it. I'm going to experiment with both ideas and see what looks good. Code allows it we just couldn't drill through our existing beams because they were structural.

  • vfish
    16 years ago

    We haven't installed these lights yet on our beams (sorry for the bad picture):

    But when we went to a lighting designer, he suggested a surface mounted fixture (SAC) for lighting the area below these structural beams. We can't drill into the beams at all, just like you.
    The lights he recommended are made by Luminaire (FX Luminaire BL-20). They are a low voltage surface mounted adjustable accent light. They come with a remote transformer and have a 30 degree adjustability.
    This is just a thought. I will let you know if/when we install them. They are rather expensive (imo) I don't need a lot of light in these areas anyway due to the other low voltage canned lighting.
    v

  • Flash
    16 years ago

    Using a solid beam and routering it would work but would most likely be more expensive and you'd also have to router a space for the wires to run through them.

    What I meant by "false beam" is to buy 3 boards and nail (and maybe wood-glue) them together to form a "U" shape in the dimensions of your structural beams or larger if necessary to fit the electrical boxes. The bottom of the "U" would be one board (the part that you see the most) and the sides rest on top of the bottom so that you don't see the ends as easily. (Or you could miter the edges so that you don't see any ends.) Then the whole inside of the "U" would be hollow and you can easily run your wires in the hollow space and cut out holes for the electrical boxes in the bottom of the "U". The open end of the "U" would be toenailed to the structural beams and possibly screwed to the floor if the screws are short enough to not go through the floor.

    This type of construction isn't uncommon. You might be able to find some pics if you Google search.

    Good luck. Your home looks beautiful, by the way.

  • Flowerchild
    16 years ago

    We did the solid beam routered for the wires. DH also put a bevel on it since all our Posts/Beams have that. I like the way it turned out. We passed our electrical inspection. That was NOT an easy thing to do in P&B especially with the SIP's too. That was the most difficult part of our build. Took 10 times longer than a conventional build. It will be worth it....(MY Mantra!! Along with a Happy dance at each little step.)
    That pickled ceiling is also our flooring upstairs. You are the first person I've heard that did that too. DH wants to cover it with hardwood. I like it as is with a polycoat, but it is pine and doesn't wear well but it's just the two of us.

  • Flowerchild
    16 years ago

    Too_picky: I forgot to add to above post. We used BM Benwood Clear Poly Coat in a Low Lustre on our posts and beams. Unless the light is shining drectly on them you don't really notice that it's treated. There is a subtle sheen to it. It's around $30 a can here in the NE.

  • ajpl
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Flower child! Thanks for thr photo. I think that's what we will do. We have one false beam in our current house and it bugs me all the time. I don't know if it's the craftsmanship of it of if they all look fake next to solid beams but since DH will be building these ones too...

    We had a slow time doing the electrical too for the same reason. You have to find the route that won't show b/c you can't go in between the floor spaces.

    If you see my picture above you can see what our floor look like after 12 years. They are pine and very soft but if you can embrace the patina you'll like them. There is the two of us, our 10 year old son and various cobinations of dogs over the years - none very gentle with the woodwork.

    vfish, I think those lights are pretty expensive too and my electrician friend said the low voltage wasn't suitable for the lighting I required. I might look in to it again just to be sure.