that is correct, you should never stretch your eyelid. i use the creamy pencils that glide on smoothly . if the point is fairly sharp, you should be able to glide it over your lid right on top of your eyelashes. using a pencil like this, you can always smudge it if need be to soften the color. i use the cheap kind - Nates, or Nat, something like that that is sold at Walgreens. Its not that I use cheap makeup but i have been using the Kohl green for years. I use it because it is so soft and easy to use and I can smudge it to soften it. i have dark hair and eyes, but black doesnt look good on me for some reason, but the kohl green is just dark enough with a hint of color to work.
deb

Use an eyeliner brush and eye shadow (powder). When you want a more dramatic look, you can use liquid liner. Both methods are gentle on your lids and offer different options for effect (simple, smokey, or dramatic).

I'm with you Chan I have known better for years but it was just awkward without doing this.
But I like Riders advice and I've seen makeup artists do this on lots of people and I've wanted to try this.Do you have any paticular brands to suggest?

Shelia, Bobby Brown makes wonderful cosmetics and colors. She is big on the use of brushes, too. Check the line out at a department store like Bloomingdales or Saks. Not sure if Sephora carries it.

MAC is also good.

I really like using eyeshadow as a liner both top and bottom because you can blend a darker color at the outer eye into a lighter color ending at the inner eye.

I do have a few eyeliners, the best that I have found that goes on smooth enough that I don't have to pull my eye is Revlons High Dimension. What first drew me to it was all the colors it came in. It sharpens really nice also which is always a bonus!

any time you tug on skin regularly it isn't good for it. I like the eye pencils too, but I also love estee lauders sets that can be used wet or dry. They come with three colors and two liners that have a brush. The wet powder liner is easy to blend and soft...you don't have to worry about it being perfect.

I love Mac cosmetics too, but I prefer most of Estee's products in my middle years.

we have a MAC in our mall, maybe i should try this. have never tried using shadow for eyeliner, only the pencils. i like the soft easy to apply pencils that just glide on, but maybe these are some better ideas i need to check on .

: ) liquid liner only- my skin's not 15 any more, and my mom's got an awful case of crepe paper skin around her eyes from years of hard black maybeline eye liners.

took me about a year to switch over entirely from pencils to brushes- but I'll never go back... sometimes, I'll line wide with eyeshadow (wet) and then go back in at the lash line with a darker liquid liner. very dramatic : )

I think most of Lauder's powder shadows can be applied with a damp liner brush for a neat line,,that's what I do,,
I used the purple shadow or the brown shadow, mix with a little water and it's perfect for liner.
Looks like the cream liner from Smashbox looks nice too.

i've discovered Makeup Forever pearly waterproof eye liner -- its the best i've found for lining the inside of the lids to get the kohl look. Lasts all day.

Get the point relatively sharp and then run it back and forth on the inside line of the lid till its as dark as you want. No pressure, no stretching.

I apply my eyeliner using Avon purple eyeshadow. I dampen a very small watercolor brush, yes, watercolor brush...longer handle, finer point, then rub it the eyeshadow. Not all eyeshadows will work with water, you have to experiment. I can then get as thin a line as I want or as thick. Works great for me...and I never stretch my lid at all.

I always use liquid eyeliner because pencils always seem to tug at my lids too much, however I've never been happy with the applicator brushes that come with the tubes because I don't like the look of a thick line. I took an eyeliner brush from a cheapy make-up applicator set I have, and trimmed the bristles at a very sharp diagonal shape with scissors. You can get a very precise line this way. I start lining at the inner part of my upper lids with just the longest bristles, as I get nearer to the outer part of my lids I can turn the brush slightly, it then incorporates all of the other bristles and widens the line. It's a cool look! I don't line the bottom, I think it makes eyes look tired and too dark.

I find that liner by SMashbox to be great,, sort of putty consistency and you get easy smooth coverage every time.

Thank you all for your opinions and suggestions; I've found some nice, soft pencils that glide on really well and I no longer stretch out my eyelid:) However, I've noticed a lot lately (people on TV, magazine ads, women I work with), that quite a few people extend their eyeliner part way up the lid. I always assumed that eyeliner was used to line the eye--around the lash line, so this is how I apply mine. And when I try applying it further up after years of applying it just to the lash line, I think I look like a freak! But then maybe that's why my eyes looks so small and tired all the time...lol. I don't know if I can get used to a thicker liner line; more importantly, I don't know if other people will be able to get used to it! How much liner do you all apply? Just curious...
Thanks again,
Chan

I start at my inner lashes with a very thin precise line, when I am at the middle of my eye I start to widen the line until I end it at a slight upward angle just past the outer end of my eye. The widest part of my line is about 1/8" wide.

It's never been my personal preference to see wide liner across the entire eye, I just don't care for that look.

I use liquid liner, but I'd really like to find a pencil liner that will stay on my eye without fading into the eyeshadow because I love the variety of colors that you can get in pencils that you can't get in liquid. Liquid eyeliners need to come in more colors!