Hi all, not sure I'd classify myself as a "grower" but I do dabble with my blue spruce. I have maybe a thousand I've grown from seed, ranging in size from 3" to 12" now, and still in 5" plugs. This fall I will transplant about 250 of the largest to 1 gal. pots and see how it goes (and move to 2 gal. next year, once I see how things develop. I've been researching soil-less container soils. I can buy Pro-Mix or the Sunshine Mix #4 but am concerned that the pH will be a bit high. I understand that in order for a blue spruce to be "blue" (at least for the 50% that have the ability to turn blue from the regular kaibab variety - although I have many "Majestica" that claim 90% will turn blue, and have some (claimed to be) "Misty Blue" which apparently were selected from the best of the Majestica orchard, but are no longer harvested) the pH should be about 5.5 or even less. I think both of the above pre-mixes have pH's greater than this. One mix I saw called for about 20% perlite, 20% vermiculite, 60% sphagnum peat moss, and 1/2 cup each of bone meal, blood meal, and dolomitic lime per 8 gallons of mix. I suspect that if I were to use this mix for blue spruce, I might eliminate vermiculite and reduce the lime to maybe 2 tablespoons? It looks from this thread that using primarily pine bark fines may be adviseable? I suppose I could also substitute turface for perlite although not sure I could find same. I don't know if I'd need any other additives like CRF? I'm hoping to keep costs down. It seems to me that I can mix my own soil for about 1/3rd less cost than pre-mix, unless I'm missing something? I have hundreds++ more blue spruce coming down the pipeline, so cost is important. Sorry for being so new at this. It was enjoyable planting the seeds (all outdoors, which was a challenge) but now a few years later I want to keep going with this, so am on to the potting stage. Any advise is helpful.

Old thread, but I found it quite useful! Still spent many many hours hunting down all the gritty mix parts in the Toronto area, so hopefully my update can help some others in the future. Especially for those looking for components on weekends. Turface: Profile Soil Conditioner by Nu-Gro. Found at Van Gongen's Garden Center. 6750 Trafalgar Road, Milton. Gro-Bark supposedly has MVP, but has terrible weekday hours. Fir Bark: Labelled as "orchid bark", approx 1/4" pieces in a smallish sized bag. Looks slightly composted. Very pricey at $8!!! Found at Terra Greenhouses. 280 Britannia Road E, Milton. Fir Bark Alternative: Repti Bark in 24qt bags, pieces need to be broken up since they are slightly too big. Three times cheaper than "orchid bark" above. Call ahead since big bags are harder to find. Petsmart (all over the GTA). Blender Tip: For the Repti Bark, I got a $20 blender from Walmart. Best yield was from filling it 3/4 full of bark and tipping the blender on its side, using a medium-high speed. That way the bark actually relatively evenly while blending and minimized dust. Respirator was very helpful. Chicken Grit: Called "Poultry Grit" here, labelled as "White Star Poultry Grower Grit 25kg". Comes in a woven plastic bag that clearly states Granite. Does not look like Dolomite, it looks like white granite. Found at Sharpe Farm Supplies Ltd. 2150 15th Side Rd, Moffat. Chicken Grit Fail: Do NOT go to the TSC Stores in Milton!! The website says they have chicken grit, but they have no stock and the cashier never remembered them ever carrying it. Grit Alternative: "3/4in Red Chip Brick", comes in a large 1 cubic foot bag. A quarter of the bag made it through 1/4" screen, which wasn't too bad. Found at Van Beek's Garden Supplies, 758 Southdown Rd., Mississauga. Unsuccessful locations: Jade Gardens Greenhouses, Sheridan Nurseries, Bulow Garden Center and Landscaping, TSC, Acorn Landscape Supply (and many other landscape supply stores). Crushed limestone is very common and popular, but of course unsuitable (at landscape supply stores). Sphagnum peat: For 5:1:1 mix. Easily found for 5:1:1 mix. Terra had 1 cubic ft bags. Perlite: For 5:1:1 mix. Cheapest place with reliable stock was Sheridan Nurseries. Photo below of my final gritty mix materials (clockwise from top): White granite chicken grit, turface/soil conditioner, blended repti bark, $$ fir "orchid bark", screened chipped red brick. Canadian quarter for scale. :D

I have a large number of fragrant red HTs, and am always looking for a better one. I grow, or have grown, many of the ones mentioned above, and many others. I have no problem with the blueing of all of the classic ultra-fragrant red HTs, and they remain my faves. I had Olympiad for almost 10 years, very nice rose but ditched it a couple of years ago b/c its blooms were small-ish and non-fragrant. I loved it when it was one of the first seven roses I grew way back in the day. I bought two Firefighters when it was first offered at Edmunds (with very high hopes for it based on what they told me), but gave both away after 2-3 years... I'm always wistful when Hoov posts about her great Firefighter. I have given away a number of other reds. Having said that, and based on your four potentials above and your looking for a true red HT, I'd say Ingrid Bergman is a great choice. Always perfect, big blooms, medium fragrant, repeats extremely well. Veterans' Honor is also really great and medium fragrant, but for me it tends to weak necks. Someone must know how to grow it right without those weak necks, b/c it's a popular exhibition rose. I haven't figured that one out yet. I've grown it grafted, and now own-root, and it's exactly the same. One rose no one has mentioned is Erotika, an ultra-fragrant pretty much clear red rose. It's not quite as damasky as the usual suspects, but it is kind of a blend of sweet rose and damask, still very strong. I've been thinking for the past couple of years that Erotika might actually be the perfect compromise rose for someone looking for true red and ultra-fragrant. Sorry so long, but I could write a book about my quest for fragrant reds :-D Susan

'INTRODUCTION Calcium is an essential plant nutrient. As the divalent cation (Ca2+), it is required for structural roles in the cell wall and membranes, as a counterâÂÂcation for inorganic and organic anions in the vacuole, and as an intracellular messenger in the cytosol (Marschner, 1995). Calcium deficiency is rare in nature, but excessive Ca restricts plant communities on calcareous soils. Calcium is taken up by roots from the soil solution and delivered to the shoot via the xylem. It may traverse the root either through the cytoplasm of cells linked by plasmodesmata (the symplast) or through the spaces between cells (the apoplast). The relative contributions of the apoplastic and symplastic pathways to the delivery of Ca to the xylem are unknown (White, 2001). However, the movement of Ca through these pathways must be finely balanced to allow root cells to signal using cytosolic Ca2+ concentration ([Ca2+]cyt), control the rate of Ca delivery to the xylem, and prevent the accumulation of toxic cations in the shoot. Calcium enters plant cells through Ca2+âÂÂpermeable ion channels in their plasma membranes (White, 2000). Since a high [Ca2+]cyt is cytotoxic, a submicromolar [Ca2+]cyt is maintained in unstimulated cells by Ca2+âÂÂATPases and H+/Ca2+âÂÂantiporters (Sze et al., 2000; Hirschi, 2001). These enzymes remove cytosolic Ca2+ to either the apoplast or the lumen of intracellular organelles, such as the vacuole or endoplasmic reticulum (ER). The rapid influx of Ca2+ through cation channels in the plasma membrane, tonoplast and/or ER generates [Ca2+]cyt perturbations that initiate cellular responses to a diverse range of developmental cues and environmental challenges (White, 2000; Sanders et al., 2002). Proteins that change conformation or catalytic activity upon binding Ca2+, such as calmodulin (CaM), calcineurin BâÂÂlike proteins (CBLs) and Ca2+âÂÂdependent protein kinases (CDPKs), allow the cellular perception and transduction of the [Ca2+]cyt signal. These proteins are termed âÂÂ[Ca2+]cyt sensorsâÂÂ. It is speculated that cellular responses to specific biotic and abiotic stimuli are encoded by distinct [Ca2+]cyt perturbations and are transduced by particular [Ca2+]cyt sensors. Much current work on Ca in plants is dedicated to understanding the nature and specificity of [Ca2+]cyt signalling and response networks. ' As stated calcium is very much necessary, is rarely needed as a supplement and can be a problem in large amounts in a garden and might help if you have a rare calcium deficiency. I guess prolonged use (many years) might cause a problem....or not. Jon; Who has learned something new again today. Here is a link that might be useful: Let's see what the botanists say This post was edited by jonnyb023 on Wed, Jun 4, 14 at 8:50