Guys and gals, don't get to participate much but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents as I was fortunate enough to pick up three from the JJ Lowe's shipments....... The Mini White (very unique looking stalk when it splits), the Thumbelina and the Divine (picture of the bloom on the Divine shown here, all three blooms had different stages of coloration, really striking). The store I picked them up at, the Divine and Thumbelina both had active blooms so it was nice to confirm I was getting what the tag noted them to be. Thumbelina bloom aroma is simply wonderful.... strong citrus scent, great stuff! Oh, all three had multiple stocks, the Mini white has 7 points, the Devine and Thumbalina each had 5. One more thought before I go back to lurking...... great local source for the Tampa bay area with good pricing for Plumerias is the Plumeria Hut in Lithia. The owners are Plumeria nuts like most of us and the owner is quite knowledgeable. Most of my other Plumeria have come from Bree and Eric. Thanks......... Mark Adams

Alek, I enjoyed looking at all the info on your web site. Recently I saw a NG Y0660 that had been returned to Sam's Club because the buyer really needed the LPG version. It was a bit dented-up in the front, and missing the rotisserie parts. Sam's wanted $700 for it. I started the task of trying to figure out just what it would take to convert it to propane and to repair the cosmetic damage. When I realized that the valves would have to be replaced, as well as the orifices, both doors and one drawer, as well as all the missing rotisserie parts, I almost bagged the idea, but decided to call Grand Hall and check on parts prices anyway. Am I ever glad that I did! The prices were so reasonable that the total cost to convert to LPG and restore the grill to new condition was only $270.00 including shipping. When my offer of $500.00 was accepted by the manager at Sam's I picked up the grill and ordered the parts. I've installed them all, with the exception of one valve that was not correct, a missing bracket to mount the rotisserie motor, and slides for the tank drawer ... basically just "noise-level" problems. Haven't had a chance to use the grill yet, as the weather hasn't been too cooperative, but I'm looking forward to it. My total cost for an "almost new" Y0660 grill is now $770.00. ! ! ! ! ! ! S C O R E ! ! ! ! ! ! There are a few things that I've learned from this exercise that I'd like to pass along: 1) Grand Hall's customer service folks are great! Their policies are pretty good too ... with the incorrect part it was "Oh, we'll get a replacement out today", not "Send it back and we'll see ...". 2) If you know what you need, and how to ask for it, you *CAN* buy the parts to convert these grills from NG to LPG and from LPG to NG. 3) The parts costs are ludicrously low ... the main valves, which include the orifice are only $5.00 each, and the side burner and rotisserie valves are $8.00 each, as they include a little more hardware. It probably makes more sense to just buy the darned things than to do the drilling for the LPG to NG conversion, and it's WAYYY better to buy for the NG to LPG conversion than to try filling and redrilling with smaller holes. 4) Rather than actually replacing the valves, which can be difficult to get off the manifold of the Y0660, it's better to just swap the valve cores and the orifices. I don't know for sure if the valves are common between the Y0660 and the smaller Y0101XC, but the conversion pictures on your site look identical. For example, the main burner gas valve part number is P03222007A for LPG. Also, the valve bodies have the number "0404A" cast into the side. This is the same for the NG and the LPG valves. How does this compare to the part number & valves for the Y0101XC? I have a full set of parts for anyone wanting to convert from LPG to NG. I'd also be interested in that guage that you've got left over from your conversion,...

Jenn Air Induction Cooktops: We just remodeled the kitchen and got a Jenn Air Induction Cooktop - 36" x 5 burners and LOVE IT! We installed the 36" Induction because we don't have natural gas or propane here. My partner is a CCA Trained Chef and hates anything other than gas for cooking. I thought the new induction unit might be an acceptable compromise. Turns out it is far more than just "acceptable" to both of us! The JennAir Induction unit is fast, powerful, quiet, and every bit as instantly responsive as natural gas or propane would be. The other day we were doing pasta for dinner. Four out of the five burners in use at the same time. 1.) a large stockpot of water boiling, 2.) the sauce heating, 3.) some turkey-sausage for inclusion in the sauce & 4.) had some mushrooms and onions going on a So four burners running, the vent hood on medium / low, and my kitchen stayed cool! We're in Phoenix. We dread cooking on the stovetop in the summer because it heats up the whole house for several hours afterwards. The AC strains to recover and hold the temp to a moderate 79 degrees. NOT ANY LONGER! The kitchen didn't heat up, the food cooked perfectly, water boiled almost instantly even in an 12 quart stock pot. After I drained the pasta and wanted to "sauce" it in the pro way - I put a large non-stick skillet on the stove, put in a couple of drops of olive oil and added the damp pasta, stirred it around for 30 seconds on high, added the turkey sausage, veggies, and finally the Marinara sauce. The big 3500 watt burner (boosted to 4500 I think) handled it beautifully. The large skillet was hot in an instant. The olive oil was smoking slightly when I added the damp pasta. The sizzle of the moisture coming out of the pasta sounded just as it would have, if I'd been using a 30,000 BTU gas burner! The veggies were re-warmed and then heated thru in seconds, as was the sausage. Finally the marinara sauce was up to a low simmer in less than ten seconds! Stir Stir Stir and it's time to serve it. Everything was perfect. Absolutely perfect! And still there was almost no residual heat.The kitchen was still cool! Believe me, that NEVER happened before when we used a conventional electric cooktop in the old kitchen. I could put my hand on the Glass Cooktop and it was warm, not scalding hot or dangerously hot. I am well pleased with the JennAir Induction Cooktop and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. BTW: I bought Miele 24" for an oven, vent hood, and the Miele dishwasher.(the Diamond G59xxSF model.) But the Miele 36" induction cooktop was nearly $3700 plus tax and installation. The JenAir was on sale and I paid a little over $1000 for it. With the savings I upgraded to a Miele 36" built-in fridge/freezer. As you can probably tell by my choice of appliances, I have no problem spending money when there's a reason to do so. But as much as I like Miele products (and I am really fond of them and their incredible quality ) I couldn't bring myself to spend an extra $2700 to get the name "Miele" somewhere on the cooktop! While I am the first to tell you Miele and Quality are nearly synonymous in my experience, I cannot throw away an extra $2700 for a label. Everyone I spoke to said their Miele Induction units were good. No one said they were great or totally trouble-free. The JennAir owners I talked to seemed to be far more impressed or satisfied with their choice of cooktops. Odd? Yes, it seemed so to me, also. While I cannot comment on any other JennAir appliances, I can tell you that their Induction Cooktop seems EXCELLENT and has worked impeccably for us since it was installed. Considering the savings, I could buy THREE JennAir induction units (on sale) for what I would pay for one Miele and FOUR OR FIVE for the cost of a VIKING INDUCTION COOKTOP (that's a whole other story! but a very costly one, I assure you!) If you have a choice between Natural Gas, or Electric, I'd still recommend first choice of Electric Induction for it's amazing efficiency, overall speed, and safety. I'm told that with Induction, some 93% of the power you pay for in Kilowatts goes into the food, not into heating up the burners or the room. This 93% number is weighed against a 55% energy efficiency for gas and 30% energy efficiency for conventional electric coil type burners. Also, you won't need a vent hood rated at 1200 CFM or better, and you won't suffer with your kitchen being turned into an over all summer long, either. These modern induction units are making serious inroads into professional kitchens all over the country, too, for their ease of use, efficiency, safety and speed!! In a restaurant setting (just like in your homes) the induction units are FAR cheaper to run than is Natural Gas or Propane or conventional resistance electric heating coils. Sorry to ramble, but the Induction unit from Jenn Air has really been amazing and I don't hesitate to recommend this unit and/or Induction Cooking in General for it's many advantages and no discernible disadvantages. If we suddenly had Natural Gas available tomorrow, I might switch out the water heater, or the heat pump AC unit. Maybe even the dryer. But I'll stick with Induction cooking for the foreseeable future unless something better comes along ...

Swiss chard, there are posts that deal with those things, if you search this forum. BS is probably the closest to what you are looking for. The parts seem to be more generic and the design is based on Julia Child's range, a Garland. Second, I would look at Bosch. My DIL had about $1800 to spend and she bought an Bosch AG. I think they have gone up a little, but you might find a deal on one somewhere. I have to say opaone, my Wolf lasted 4.5 years and they only claim 20 years on their website. Subzero bought them and "residentialized" them in 2000. Sisterwitch, It is sad but with all the electronics on ranges, they seem to need a lot of air moving and no one seems to be rating the noise in decibles like they do dishwashers. It is a little bit hard to rely on subjective viewpoints as one person’s quiet might be another person’s loud. opaone here are responses to your comments. Note, instead of being repetitive in explanation of the differences in steel and aluminum, note this * means see above discussion and link, also previous posts or links to articles on cookware metals or google anything relating to the physical properties of various metals used in cookware and you will get an explanation in great detail. Feel free to add any supporting data to your contention that steel heats more evenly than aluminum. "There are actually few things that a burner can do that a griddle cannot so there is actually very little trade-off" Do you mean a pan on a burner? Interesting thought. I just find myself needing containment for things that involve liquids and like the control of an individual burner to the pan. Go figure. Most of the time I do not need all of the real estate on a griddle. Seems to be a waste to heat it up to make a couple of portions of something. I do understand that it works for you. "there have been few times that we've needed/wanted more than four burners” But it you have a 48" range and most people don't. I understand how you use your burners but consider that there are people who cook differently than you do or only have 4 burners to begin with. "Do you have examples of when one is better than the other for things done on a griddle. Or perhaps more importantly, when would you want anything other than steel." Of course I do and I know we have discussed this exact thing many times before. * I have posted this before too but here it is again. http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/120/Common-Materials-of-Cookware Look at the charts, especially for thermal diffusivity. In looking at the chart above, Why do you think they put layers of copper and/or aluminum in stainless cookware? Why did Julia use thick French copper? Do you cook with steel pans all the time? Why or why not? Wolf even says on their website that even with the infrared burner, their surface does not heat evenly. I use a heavy aluminum griddle over my ring burner whenever I need a more even temperature across the surface, which is when I am cooking something starchy like potato pancakes, grilled sandwiches, toasting buns or English muffins, pancakes or even hamburgers. I also use it when I want quick response up or down. I cook a lot of things that I might start at one temperature but need to turn down to finish, some sandwiches, hamburgers or I might cook one thing and switch to something else and I don't want to wait for 1/2" of steel to change temperatures. I use steel or cast iron when I don't care about hot spots or even want them to build heat for rapid sears. I do this with steaks, shrimp or scallops, but use a big pan instead of a griddle. I do understand that you like your built in steel griddle for all situations although I find it odd that as much as you seem to value even temperatures across the surface, you don’t see where aluminum would be beneficial in spite of the very clear physical properties. "Because you have two burners, you can have two different zones of heat." "True (but it is often very uneven heat across the surface and across time." True with steel, but aluminum * As far as even heat over time, a flame is a constant flow of heat at a given setting vs cycling on and off with a +/- 30-40F. Both work, but if you are discussing actual differences in fluctuation of heat, the constant flame is well, constant. This is how it works in actual cooking. I start my pan/griddle and preheat a little hotter than is needed. I get a little heat loss a when I add food and it brings it down to where I want it. I might stay with that or if I do need an adjustment, I make that adjustment and it quickly happens and through the whole griddle due to the excellent heat transfer properties of aluminum. Maybe it is is hard to understand how aluminum works if you have not used it or maybe you have only used thin aluminum. ”A thermostatic griddle acting as a flat-top can actually provide greater capability. For example, since more than just two sauciers can be placed on it and it maintains a much more even temp than burners or burners with a griddle plate will.” Even temps *. How many sauciers can you fit on a 2 or 4 burner griddle? Consider that the area available is much bigger on a griddle like Royal Industries aluminum 2 burner overlay than a Wolf 2 burner built in. Royal Industries 23x15, cooking area 22.5x14.5= 326 sq inches Wolf 2 burner built in, on a 48” range, cooking area 18x10.5= 189 sq inches Wolf 4 burner built in cooking area. 18x23= 414 sq inches How many more pots will fit on 326 sq inches vs 189? With the 4 burner you are only getting 88 sq inches more than the Royal Industries aluminum griddle. "What you don't mention is that it is almost impossible to maintain any semblance of even heat on a burner top griddle" I didn’t mention it, because it’s not impossible or even hard. * " To accomplish this with a burner top you'd need someone to monitor it with a IR temp gun and turn the burners on/off to maintain the temp. Short of that you'll have much wider temp swings that make use for many things difficult or impossible." The object for me is to obtain a temperature that does what I want to the food, not maintain a given temperature. I go by sight, sound and smell. When you cook with a pan, do you turn it on and off and monitor it with an infrared temperature gun? No wonder you prefer a griddle and don’t see the benefit of pans. I would be surprised that you could use 4 pans that way. I’m thinking you would be better off with induction that you could dial in. Once the burner is at the right setting with aluminum, I rarely need to touch it except if I want to change temperatures. "A properly cared for steel griddle is quite nonstick. I'm not aware of thermostatic griddles needing to be replaced. " Yes, I agree it is, built in or add on. A nice nontoxic way to have nonstick. Thermador as mentioned above is an example of a thermostatically controlled griddle that needs replacing from time to time. It is sort of a lift off though so it can be done easily. "I've not checked lately so perhaps something has become available. Are you aware of anything?" My kids have an inexpensive aluminum one. It works great on pancakes. This may be the answer for you. An 36” induction plancha with a steel surface. Sure it is $8,089, but some combi ovens cost that much. It would be interesting to check it out and then you could get a 30” BS range to go next to it.