The Genesis is something like $700, more than I wanted to spend on a grill. I got the Spirit EP 310 for $400 at Ace about a month ago. I don't think Webers come with a cover typically, you have to buy them separately.

Julie, try number two was NOT good! I thought I'd try a different type of flour and so used Italian "00" flour - which is typically used to make pizzas, breads, pastas, etc. The dough just didn't rise and was quite bubbly. So, today I figured I would go back to basics. My mother was one of the best cooks Ive known and she used good old fashioned Five Roses flour always, for everything (and being Italian, of course she made pasta, bread and the worlds best pizza :-) Success! Although the dough did not rise as quickly as it did for Trailrunner (took closer to three hours), and I did need to add the full amount of water, the results were yummy. Much less dense than the first time, light, lots of great texture, and surprisingly easy to work with. I brought over two partially baked crusts still warm from the oven to a friend's tonight and had fun making a Hawaiian pizza with her four year old and a "grown up" one for the adults to munch on with drinks before dinner. Eliz

After 2+ years of ownership now I will say I would easily buy this machine again... That said I have had 2 service calls... the first time the pump stopped... it was replaced and it's run great ever since...until I washed a rubber backed bath rug and the backing fell apart into crumbs and plugged the line... service cleaned that out for me and it's been great ever since... now that second time was entirely my fault... I knew the backing was old and delicate... but I was trying to push one last wash and a month or so out of the rug... dumb move... Personally the only 'guts' I've gotten near is to open the round 'access' on the bottom front which allows you to open the clean out prior to the pump... when I've checked there (other than with the rug incident) there is never anything of consequence... and it's solely been an 'execrise' in how to do it... That said... be aware that a small item (kids socks, small panties, etc) will occassionally end up in the gasket by the door, and then you have to decide if you're going to hold onto it for another load, or give it a good squeeze out and toss it into the dryer... I have found if I put this type of item in the washer first when loading the problem does not occur as often... maybe once per month or two... not great, but not a deal breaker in my mind. From comments some have posted here is seems that some bosch models do not have a spin option on the dial any longer, so I'd watch for that as IF you end up unbalanced you can get a 'soggy' load at the end and then you just need to re-spin the load after rearranging it... again, not frequent maybe I've done this 3-4 times in 2+ years??? but if you don't have the option to select only a spin, you'd have to rewash needlessly. If you don't currently have a fl machine, be aware, cycles are longer... I find my typical normal regular wash time is about 1 hour per load, unless I select the 'quick' wash of ~25 minutes. good luck with whatever you end up with.

I agree with dross, but will add some small details. Both have apparent advantages and disadvantages, and although the Miele does seem very interesting it is quite a bit more expensive and doesn't have a track record yet. I'm also deciding between the two, but I'm leaning towards the Miele (80% sure at this point) right now. I need to do some renovation to the laundry room to fit either machine and given my slow pace in doing these kind of projects I'm hoping some more history on the Miele comes to light before needing to order either machine. To be fair the W4840 is the top of the line big capacity whereas Bosch 500 is their mid level. It's probably more fair to compare the Bosch 500 with the Miele W4800 or the Bosch 700 with the Miele W4840 at some level. Some of the things I've noticed as differences between the W4840 and 500 are: Spin speed: Miele 1400 rpm vs. Bosch 1100 rpm. This equates with a g-force difference of 370 g for the Bosch and 600 g for the Miele. At some point you can't spin much more water out of clothing regardless of g-force, but I'd expect the Miele to have a noticable difference. Temperatures: -----------------Bosch----------------------Miele xxtra-----------150F + 3 min @ 170F----------N/A Sanitary/Boost----150F-----------------------158F Hot---------------125F-----------------------140F Very Warm---------N/A------------------------122F Warm--------------95F------------------------104F Cold--------------60F------------------------86F Maybe it's just how we are use to doing laudry with our Asko and now Danby, but more often than not we do cotton whites at 140F and colors at 104F so the Miele's temps line up with our past experience and comfort level. Also don't some emzynes activate around 104F? If so, it's nice to have that as your "warm" wash option. Profile Wash: The Bosch does this directly, whereas the Miele you need to plumb your washer to allow this. It appears the Miele will do a profile wash but you need a way of either filling it with cold water only, or having the cold go to both the hot and cold inlets or maybe start the machine in one setting and then changing it within 6 minutes. If you need to do a lot of profile washes, the Bosch is a better choice. Hinges: The Bosch washer has the hinge on the left (like most all big american FLers) whereas the Miele it's on the right. Since your dealing with new construction it's not a big issue. Down the line if you want to replace your washer with another brand your choices are VERY limited regarding other large washers which are also right hinged. Weight: The Bosch weighs around 220 lbs whereas the Miele is about 290 lbs. Manufacturers don't add weight for fun and to increase manufacturing costs, shipping costs and installation hassle. This added heft is not doubt heavier duty components and I'm guessing a much heavier and more stable outer tank. As dross said, there isn't a track record yet, and the Miele might even experience some new product hiccups, but the Miele appears to be built like a tank. The Miele does have their waterproof system as you mentioned. It is not as extensive as seen on their dishwashers with inner/outer concentric hoses and a valve at the water take off. I believe it will pump the water out if a leak occurs internal to the machine. I don't view this as an acceptable level of protection (particularly for upper floors) to justify not installing a simple manual shutoff and a drain pan. If a supply hose bursts it won't protect you and if the power goes out it can't work. Given it's limitations I don't view it as providing enough to be viewed as an advantage vs. Bosch. Dryer: My pair aren't going to sit side-by-side so matching equipment isn't an issue. For a lot less money than the Miele you can get a very good dryer with more capability. If you buy the Miele dryer have the venting designed so another dryer would work there as well. The Miele puts the vent outlet out the back on the lower left corner (as viewed from the front). Every other dryer I know of has their rear outlet more or less centered in the back. A very bizarre design decision on their part. However, if I end up going with the Bosch, I would consider their dryer.