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jess111_gw

Tile Shower Waterproofing?

jess111
15 years ago

I can't believe how much harder bathrooms are to research than kitchens!

We have a one piece acrylic shower that we want to get rid of and tile (I may do a cast iron pan, not sure I really want or trust the tile floor)....

So I got one estimate, and reading here about kerdi, I don't really understand what that is. I also read stuff about plastic liners, tar paper, etc, but I don't understand the applications for each. I THINK behind my acrylic shower is greenboard-at least that's my assumption. Above the acrylic abut 2 feet is tile, and the ceiling of the shower is tiled right now too.

I asked the tile guy about waterproofing, and he told me he always uses easyboard, which is like a foam stuff. I read some good and bad about it while researching. He said that there is no liner or anything used behind the ezboard, and I'm not sure if the easyboard goes up in PLACE of or on TOP of the greenboard. He told me using any plastic behind the board would cause a definite mildew problem and ruin the job, so he said it's just the tile attached straight to the easyboard. I asked if he puts the kerdi stuff or other waterproofing stuff over, and he said that he can do whatever I want him too, but I would be throwing away money.

Then I stopped at a flooring place, and was told that Kerdi is my best bet, right over the drywall. Is that really the best method? It seems counterintuitive I guess, and I don't know if the tile guy I got knows about kerdi. The other issue is that the drywall will likely be damaged when I removed the tile, so what do I replace it with? More greenboard? Cement board (not sure if cement board can be used without drywall) I am so confused, and not sure what I'm looking for in a tile guy or a job.

So is easyboard (attached to drywall or not) waterproof enough for a shower? Where do I begin?

Comments (18)

  • gbsim1
    15 years ago

    I'll let Bill and Mongo chime with the real info, but having done the exact same thing a few months ago, I can recommend NOT going with the tiler who is only using tile on top of ezboard and thinks Kerdi is a waste of money.

    If the Kerdi is applied by someone who know how to do it then your shower won't leak and your walls won't rot. Find someone who is experienced. Bill might even know someone in your area.

    When our acrylic shower was removed there was no greenboard or sheetrock behind it, just studs. When you yank out the shower it will be damaged anyway. You'll probably be cutting it in order to get it around the plumbing stubs. You may need to move the plumbing up or down or consolidate handles etc anyway for the new shower. If you build a niche, it will be done back into the wall space.

    Good luck!

  • jess111
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thank you gbsim. LOL, I have no idea what plumbing stubs are-it looks like I have a whole lot to learn, hahaha. I haven't even gotten to looking for a plumber, and I guess its the plumber that removes the shower and soaking tub? IDK. DH and I were planning on doing *most* of the demo ourselves, since I don't have a mint to spend on this master bath.

    It would be really helpful to find an installer that knows how to install Kerdi, if in fact that's the way to go. I'm in Ocean County, NJ.

  • PRO
    Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech
    15 years ago

    Look, Kerdi is the "Cadillac" of showers....no "if's ands or buts." A Kerdi shower is "Waterproof," not just "water-resistant." It is also vapor-proof, which is why they are commonly used for steam showers. Why do you think they suggest and warrent it over plain sheetrock??? Does it cost a little bit more? Yes. Is it worth it? I guess if you want a shower that will NEVER fail, the answer is also "Yes."

  • bill_vincent
    15 years ago

    I THINK behind my acrylic shower is greenboard-at least that's my assumption.

    Good chance that the only thing behind the plastic is 2x4's.

    I know Schluter will warranty the installation over drywall. I still recommend using Durock.

  • jess111
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks, Bill & lazarususa, I guess that helps answer my question. So if the contractor wanted to use easyboard in place of durock, or even just the durock, there would need to be kerdi on top of it, right? Or if not using Kerdi is the durock or easyboard waterproof, or is something else used in place of the kerdi?

    The installer seemed to scoff when I talked about a waterproofing, membrane or kerdi, and went nuts when I mentioned plastic sheeting, but I really didn't know what I was talking about. I researched a little more today, so I got Kerdi down a little, but know nothing of the other methods. If Kerdi is the more waterproof method, I would rather do that unless it's some astronomically costly install vs. the other way. How do I find or do you guys know any installers proficient in using Kerdi? I've read through a lot of posts today talking about botched Kerdi by contractors and redos, and well, I really don't want to do this twice!

  • jess111
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    And you guys are right, if the builder could save himself a few pieces of greenboard, he would. I bet I my shower is just butted to the studs. I guess that makes it easier, less tear out.

  • weedyacres
    15 years ago

    What you want to do is remove the acrylic shower and any drywall or backerboard that may be on the walls that will be tiled. Then put up 1/2" cement board. From there, you have several options, in order of ease of install+degree of protection+cost:
    1. Tile over the cement board.
    2. Apply Redguard (kind of like painting on liquid plastic) and tile over that.
    3. Apply Kerdi and tile over that.

    If you're going to use a cast iron or solid surface or acrylic base, then Redguard should be sufficient. The biggest gains you get from Kerdi are if you tile the base. Or at least that's the advice I got a few months back, and followed despite my orange envy of all those here with Kerdi showers.

  • gbsim1
    15 years ago

    I've been in my house for years and plan to be in it for another 25. When we began our remodel we realized that most contractors and many installers are so used to building spec houses that they don't really care about how long something will last. Same with people doing remodels who are doing it with plans of moving soon. When I would push somebody and ask about what was REALLY the best method, they'd say weeellll if you really want it to last then we could do .....
    In my research, Kerdi seemed to be the way to insure that the walls and floor wouldn't get any moisture damage or mold (irregardless of the pan used). It was the only way I was going to tile and know that in another 25 years if I remodel again, I won't have to tear out walls or have a mold problem growing in my walls.

    I had someone start my project who didn't really know how to Kerdi even though he had been to a weekend training class and had installed several. I had to stop the project, tear out all of his work (including one tiled wall and start over with someone who knew what they were doing.

    Post your location and someone might know a good tile installer. If not you could always go to the Kerdi website, contact your regional rep and ask them for a recommendation.
    After my fiasco, I was on a first name basis with the Kerdi rep (very helpful) and he agreed that the second tile installer was one of the best and totally knew what he was doing..... he was right. It is well worth every penny to get a pro. And remember YOU will be the one using the shower and living in the house not the contractor.... get what YOU think is right!!

  • jess111
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks. I'm in Ocean County, NJ, specifically Toms River.

    If anyone can steer me to a reputable contractor who is proficient in Kerdi installs, it would be greatly appreciated!

  • terezosa / terriks
    15 years ago

    1. Tile over the cement board.
    2. Apply Redguard (kind of like painting on liquid plastic) and tile over that.
    3. Apply Kerdi and tile over that.

    Kerdi over Redguard would be totally redundant and a waste of time and money.

  • bill_vincent
    15 years ago

    It would actually cause mold problems, but I think those were being offered as two different alternatives. :-)

    Thanks. I'm in Ocean County, NJ, specifically Toms River.

    Jess-- I DO know someone in southern Jersey-- just not sure where exactly, I'll give him a ping and see if he's anywhere near you.

  • weedyacres
    15 years ago

    terricks: Yes, I meant those as 3 different, mutually exclusive options, in increasing order of protection.

  • terezosa / terriks
    15 years ago

    Ah, sorry I took that the wrong way.

  • jess111
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Hi Bill-

    Any luck with the contractor in NJ?

  • bill_vincent
    15 years ago

    Unfortunately, no. I won't be recommending him again.

  • jess111
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Uh oh, Bill, that doesn't sound good.

    I'm still on my quest. I had Avalon out today and got still different info yet. He told me I can't use a Kerdi pan because of my shower size, about 32 x 48. I was reading that it could be cut, but I have a question going on JB forum, and they are recommending a mud pan. But I think that's what tile guy #1 said would cost me over $1200 extra! And tile guy #2, who was just a measurer said that the Kerdi walls would be unneccessary without the pan, and that some hydraflex on the cement board would be fine. I'm thoroughly confused, but I really want at least the Kerdi walls. I've even googled and can't seem to find Kerdi guys in NJ.

  • gbsim1
    15 years ago

    We didn't go with the Kerdi pan either, because of size and our tile installer does masonry steps etc...

    Call or email Kerdi directly and ask them for a recommendation of someone in your area.

  • bill_vincent
    15 years ago

    It's not.