Summer,
My contractor said the same thing. I asked him to use siliconized caulk that's made to match the grout and he said it looks cheap. He wants to grout the tub area.
Donna

They did a steam shower with Redgard??? You might want to call Custom Building Products' tech line and see what they say about that!! I might be wrong here, but I don't believe Redgard is approved for such use!! As for the outside corner, that shouldn't be a problem with respect to grout vs. caulking. I don't know why, but that's the way it works. It's much more important in inside corners.

I asked him to use siliconized caulk that's made to match the grout and he said it looks cheap

That's just out and out laziness. it looks just like the grout!! How's it going to look cheap???

Yikes, Bill -- I'm assuming it was Redguard, all I know for sure is it was painted on, red, and was supposed to dry for 3 days and create a moisture proof bubble. Are there any other products that match that description?

As for the caulk, my GC is telling me it's going to shrink and look ugly, just like the caulk around my whirlpool tub has already done.

What about "priming" the grout in order to put caulk on top of it? Can that be done?

Are there any other products that match that description?

Not that I know of. I think I'd be getting the name from the GC just to be sure.

As for the caulk, my GC is telling me it's going to shrink and look ugly, just like the caulk around my whirlpool tub has already done.

I don't know. I've been using siliconized latex caulk since it first was offered by Hydroment, around 97- 98, and I've yet to have that happen. I might've just been lucky though with the couple of jobs I've done. :-)

What about "priming" the grout in order to put caulk on top of it? Can that be done?

It can, but it won't last. The caulking needs to be able to anchor itself in the joint, otherwise it'll just peel back off within a matter of weeks.

I've put in a call to the makers of Redgard, but I did find a place on their website where they seem to say you can use it in saunas and steam rooms. Here's the link -- it's to their brochure, and the mention is on page 7:

http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/docs/Architectural_Resources_Systems.pdf?USER=arc\&LANG=en&user=arc&lang=en

Does the fact it's a steam shower make a difference?

Thanks for all your help and advice, Bill. There are so many of us out there that are solid surface challenged, and what are we supposed to do when the contractors and tile people tell us wrong information? ?!! My contractor already said, "oh, I bet that's information you got from the internet again, huh?"

(sigh)

I've put in a call to the makers of Redgard, but I did find a place on their website where they seem to say you can use it in saunas and steam rooms. Here's the link -- it's to their brochure, and the mention is on page 7:

http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/docs/Architectural_Resources_Systems.pdf?USER=arc\&LANG=en&user=arcâ©=en

Does the fact it's a steam shower make a difference?

Not at all. My mistake. We had a discussion about this over at John Bridge's a few months ago, and I thought Redgard was one of the ones NOT recommended. I can't be perfect ALL the time!! :-)

My contractor already said, "oh, I bet that's information you got from the internet again, huh?"

I actually got the same kind of thing from a homeowner the other day!! Only difference was I carry a copy of the TCNA Handbook with me at all times when I'm on the job, and went out to my truck and proved to her what I was saying. :-)

My contractor(s) said the same thing. I don't think they're being lazy, they simply dont know any better. Mine was thinking of that rubbery looking ugly caulk you get at HD. After he grouted everything, I took a butterknife while it was still wet and scraped it out. When we filled it with the grout manufacturers sanded caulk, you literally cannot see a difference between the grout and caulk no matter how close you look even where the caulk meets the grout. None of the caulk has shrunk or done anything else the contractors scare you about...

Your guy won't use caulk because "it shrinks and it looks ugly".

But he's admitting that when it cracks he'll smear caulk over the cracked grout, and they've already painted the cracked grout with...porcelain paint...which is chipping?

And all that will look better than just using caulk, eh?

Well, inside corners should be caulked, no grout.

Outside decorative corners, like in your picture? When I miter those, I usually make the miter quite tight, so tight that unsanded grout has to be worked in there with the pad of my thumb.

I really like the decoartive tile you have there. I hope the painted grout doesn't stand out as much to the eye as it does for the camera.

And you're correct, caulk should not be smeared over cracked grout.

Redguard is fine. Personally I prefer Kerdi. When you say the edges don't look finished, can you see any redguard?

Mongo

Hi Mongo,
Thank you so much for your input. And yes, that painted grout stands out as much to the eye as it does in the photo -- more actually, since it draws attention to the fact that the tile piece above it is out of kilter by a quarter inch on the side aware from the camera angle.

And thank you, I really love the way the tiles build up a molding, just like I did around the ceiling.
I can't see the redguard, at least, which I suppose is good news. But even in the steam shower, I don't see that they used any different material in the corners (or along the bench or the shampoo cubby) than the rest of the grout. It's a sandless grout, though, so maybe it wouldn't be as obvious? Or could it be more flexible? Since the shower is lined in the redguard, do I still need to worry in there about water leaking through cracking grout?

Oh, and I discovered that what I thought was shrinking caulk around my tub is cracked instead. The GC is telling me the cracking will soon stop (in other words, within the first year) -- is that more BS or is it true?

Thanks everyone again.

Summer

"The GC is telling me the cracking will soon stop (in other words, within the first year) -- is that more BS or is it true?"

Maybe yes, maybe no.

In lightweight frame construction, the framing lumber can take several months to a year to come to an equilibrium of sorts. During that time, the wood can move. Moreso if the framing lumber was green (not pressure treated green, but non kiln-dried green) instead of kiln dried.

Still...houses move. There is still seasonal movement due to humidity, subtle movement from wind loading, etc, etc.

So while grout in changes of plane is more likely to crack within months of the initial installation, it could crack year after year. Or after every other year. Or never again.

There's just not a one answer fits all solution.

Cracked grout in decorative tile is cosmetic cracking. But cracked grout in a wet area like a shower represents another avenue for liquid water and water vapor to get behind the tile.

Normally not a problem with a topical membrane like Kerdi or RedGuard.

But still, industry standard, and best building practices, dictate that with inside corners in wet areas, it's best to use color and texture matched caulk instead of grout.

Caulk flexes. Grout doesn't.

If their caulk is failing, then they need educate themselves on how to properly caulk, prep, application and tooling, and on using the proper caulk.

Mongo

Mongo,
I was told by the rep. at Custom's that you grout the area first and then put in the caulk, is that true? I'm talking about a tub/shower combo.
Donna

I'm not MOngo, but I'll answer anyway. No, it's not. The caulking needs to be able to anchor itself in the joint. Otherwise it peels back off.

If YOU'RE not Mongo, and I'm NOT Mongo...good lord...WHERE'S MONGO???????? Maybe Sheriff Bart knows :o)

Wow, I'm having a slow Friday!!

sorry, back on topic

Mongo was in Boston.

Now Mongo is home.

Donna, there are two ways to look at what you wrote. During a tile installation, you tile, then grout, then add caulk. So in that regard, you do "grout the area first then put in the caulk."

However, you DO NOT caulk OVER grout.

Bill wrote that "caulk needs to be anchored in a joint", and that's correct. It need to be in a "U" shaped groove of some sort. If caulk is smeared on a flat surface, then eventually it will peel off.

If grout gets into the joints that are to be caulked, then you remove it so you have a clean joint.

Then you caulk.

Mongo just pawn in game of life...

Hmmmm. Mongo.. Good.