Return to the Bathrooms Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Posted by bbstx (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 25, 13 at 8:53

I'm considering the Toto Washlet E200 or the BioBidet BB1000 or the Brondell Swash 1000. They are all roughly the same price - give or take $200.

The only one that has a slight advantage to me is the Brondell Swash because it is sold by Costco and I like the way they stand behind what they sell.

Opinions, please. Or is there some other brand I should consider. I'd like to stay under $750.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

I have the E200. It has the features I wanted and I didn't find it necessary to go up to the next model. I think the next model had a continuously heating water tank as opposed to one that just heats the water that is in there--or something like that. There is enough warm water in my view. One important thing to me is that the remote is on the wall, not on the side of the seat. The lowest model had it that way IIRC.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Thanks, NYCBD. And thanks for the recommendation for a remote rather than the side of the seat.

Terry Love recommended the BioBidet BB1000 on a 2010 thread. I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on that model.

I have until Monday to change the location of the electrical outlet I had installed for the toilet seat. I'm hopeful some more GW'er's with experience with one of these seats will weigh in.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Loved our biobidet! Unfortunately, it developed problems after about 15 months. The warranty will cover 75% of repair costs. Sending it is our expense, returning it is theirs. I can't compare models or comment on the quality of the actual repair. I can tell you that after 15 months, my husband and I both HATE being without the bidet function. It's wonderful.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

I have a Toto and haven't heard of the other two. From my understanding the Toto is so popular in Japan that it's used in public washrooms. I figure if it's so widely used there, then it will be reliable here. This is my goal: reliability.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

zz, my sister and BIL were in Japan 2 years ago. She has told me they are everywhere! Train stations, airports, hotels. and my nephew's host family had them in their house. I don't know that they were Toto brand, but they were some sort of bidet seats. I read somewhere else that Inax is the brand of choice in Japan. It exceeds my self-imposed $750 limit, though.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

xp - some American restaurants have them in their public washrooms too.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

I have the Swash 1000 from Costco in my Now Nearly Perfect Tiny Powder Room. I can't compare to the others, as I've never used them, but I am very happy with this one!

It doesn't look quite as massive as some of the others I looked at one websites, the water is warm, you can sit on the seat lid if you want, it does the job it is intended to do (love the warm seat now that winter is coming), and I liked that I could return it to Costco if I ran into any problems.

I'll probably buy more for my other bathrooms as we remodel (next up - the Starting From Dirt Basement Bath!)

Always ;-)
Hunzi


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

zagyzebra: "I have a Toto and haven't heard of the other two. From my understanding the Toto is so popular in Japan that it's used in public washrooms. I figure if it's so widely used there, then it will be reliable here. This is my goal: reliability."

bbstx: "zz, my sister and BIL were in Japan 2 years ago. She has told me they are everywhere! Train stations, airports, hotels. and my nephew's host family had them in their house. I don't know that they were Toto brand, but they were some sort of bidet seats. I read somewhere else that Inax is the brand of choice in Japan. It exceeds my self-imposed $750 limit, though."

O.k., we travel to Japan two or three times a year (family); one of us is native Japanese, and the other of us has lived for extensive periods in Japan. We returned to the United States from our latest visit five days ago. bbstx is correct that the predominant brand in public facilities in Japan is Inax -- that includes Narita Airport amd Haneda Airport and Chitose Airoport and Kansai International Airport, and many major railway station toilets, and the toilets in the guest rooms of many luxury hotel chains. Terry Love sells the Inax Clessence, the model that we bought for our own use, for $648, so it is within your self-imposed limit of $750. But you do see a lot of Totos in public facilities such as restaurants in Japan, too; and Toto is more often seen in Japanese private residences than Inax is (a better retail sales network, I suspect). In almost all toilet applications, whether the underlying facility is Toto or Inax, the other make's toilet seat will fit perfectly; the fitting connections for the two brands are interchangeable.

BioBidet? Brondell? Never seen in Japan, at least under those brand names. Possibly, they are rebranded for North America versions of second-tier Japanese seats like Panasonic or Toshiba (both major electronics companies that have failed to make any significant dent into the plumbing business).

Inax, which invented the advanced toilet seat category in the 1970s, and Toto, Japan's largest plumbing fixtures company, are not only sales rivals, #1 and #2 in Japan, but also technology rivals. Inax started with, and is firmly committed to, a two-wand toilet seat, with different wands and different spray angles for "posterior" cleaning and for "feminine" cleaning. Toto is equally committed to a single wand that has two separate spray nozzles.

There is a 27 degree difference in the angle of incidence of the spray on one's oshiri (rear orifice, if you will) between the Inax and the Toto, with the spray angle more vertical on the Inax (because it can be, as Inax uses an optimized wand for the purpose) and more horizontal spray angle for the Toto (because it must, as the spray from a different nozzle in the same wand must also be able to irrigate the feminine areas). We have had literally hundreds of "occasions" for using both Toto seats and (of course) Inax seats, and the reason why Inax is in our home is because we find the Inax approach clearly superior.

That is our (very) personal take on the matter. As they say, YMMV.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Probably way more info than you need but here goes.

I have the Inax and have been very happy. I have the remote control mounted on a cabinet next to the toilet which I like too. See the picture below. The model I got was the L series, and I paid less than the suggested retail price listed on their web site. I thought I paid around $700-800. If I had to do it again I would have probably went with the R series due to the shape of the unit.

The L series is very deep and looks odd on my old fashioned looking Toto "Promenade" toilet. This bathroom is the guest bathroom and is seen by a lot of people. It is surprising how many laughs I get when others see the unit. It's mostly men who laugh. Women are more curious about the unit. But I really like having the unit anyway. It has a dryer that I never use. So that feature, which is more powerful on the L unit, is not utilized by me.

Side note, I do not have the toilet paper mounted, as pictured, any longer as it is too far back to access comfortably. I now have a counter top TP holder that is more convenient located on the other side at the counter.
Toto Promenade toilet with Inax advanced toilet seat photo IMG_3871_zps3937c523.jpg

As Herring_maven states there are 2 wands, one for each job. I appreciate that feature and is the main reason I went with the Inax. It just made hygienic sense to me.

On my next (currently underway) bathroom remodel, I have the electrical outlet in place for another seat. I may have to wait a bit to install this one though, because of $ constraints in general (corn prices have dropped :(

In my first bathroom, pictured above, I had the outlet installed on the left side but my unit's power is on the right side. It has not been a problem, as the cord is long enough and is just wrapped around the backside of the stool to the other side.

If I had a bottomless pocketbook I would get the Inax "Satis" because it is SO COOL looking.
Satis by Inax photo smallressatisD-S418S-VL-US_zps5e75d456.jpg

Thanks Herring_maven for all you helpful advise here and on other threads. As always, I really appreciate your posts:)


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

herring_maven and enduring,
Thank you both for sharing your knowledge. The two wand construction appeals to me. On the Terry Love website, the Inax Clessence is $230 less than the Inax Luscence. From what I can see, it appears the main difference is a remote control vs. an integrated control. DH has some back issues [more so when he plays golf several times in one week ;-)]. I was thinking a remote control would be better, but I'm not sure it is $230 better. I envision having to twist around to see which button to push on the built in control. Is my thinking flawed? Could you please give your opinion of an integrated control vs. a remote control?


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

bbstx: "I was thinking a remote control would be better, but I'm not sure it is $230 better. I envision having to twist around to see which button to push on the built in control. Is my thinking flawed? Could you please give your opinion of an integrated control vs. a remote control?"

In our home, we are Clessence people, and I can discuss that in detail. Our sister and brother-in-law in Japan have Toto Washlets with remote controls in their home in Japan (where we stay when we visit Japan), so we are familiar with remote controls, but far from experts. When I am there and need to rinse, I find myself reaching for the right "armrest" position where the Clessence has the controls, before catching myself and looking instead to the left wall, where the remote hangs. I am sure if the installations were reversed and we had the Washlets and they had the Clessence, my first move would be toward the left wall; habits are acquired fairly quickly.

The essential Clessence buttons are fairly large; there are only four of them; and they are in-line, so after three or four uses, there is no need to look at them. (There are four smaller buttons closer to the user on the "armrest" control panel that are rarely used, and they are tactilely quite different from the "big four.")

There is also "logic" built in, so one needs not turn off the spray before turning on the air dry; pushing the air dry button automatically turns off the spray. Similarly, simply standing up turns off the air dry. So for each clean and dry operation, one needs to push just two buttons once each. Of course, the spray control and the air dry control each can be stopped "manually" by pressing the large Stop button.

From the operation manual for the Clessence:

This post was edited by herring_maven on Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 18:12


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Hi, bbstx. I am the only one that uses the seat wash functions in my house. And Herring_maven good to read your post.

You mention the Clessence and the Luscence. I think that is the same as the "C" and the "L" that is shown on the website that is linked below. There is an "R" too. The R is just a bit cheaper than the "L" on their site. I like the remote mounted, but I do have to twist a little bit with where I have it mounted (only location available). I would not want it just laying around, to be used when needed, I'd drop it in the toilet. But to be honest the seat control panel might be easier on the shoulders. The remote when mounted on the wall would be best mounted in front of the toilet position, like right at the front rim edge. Mine is sort of back because I have it mounted on the narrow cabinet. But it works ok for me, not ideal.

I just might get the "C" on my next go around. If I decide on the wall mounted remote control system I will get the "R" because of the flatter seat style.

The link shows a great picture of the "C" model

Someone on the forum, on a past thread, mentioned they thought the seat opening was too small. I don't remember which brand they were referring to. I think they got to try a brand or two at a plumbing supply store. My thought, after owning one, is the the small size is needed so that the body can make a seal on the seat so water doesn't spray out around the sides. The sitting position also is different, because you need to be seated towards the back. This was different for me, as I must have had a tendency to sit on the front edge. I had to recondition myself to move back.

Here is a link that might be useful: Inax web page for advanced seats


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

enduring: "The sitting position also is different, because you need to be seated towards the back. This was different for me, as I must have had a tendency to sit on the front edge. I had to recondition myself to move back."

(grin) Yes, when we have visitors who are not yet familiar to our home, I encourage them to play around with the controls freely and not to worry about breaking anything, because breaking anything that way is pretty much impossible. But the one warning that I do give is not to sit forward on the seat in order to look back there to see what is going on -- unless you want a back wash, that is.

This post was edited by herring_maven on Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 23:46


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

LOL, great visual!


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

I've had the Toto 300 for 4-5 yrs. I am not familiar with the other brands. To me, this is the type of appliance that I want to buy from the market leader, and that is Toto in my opinion. I've been very satisfied with its operation.

Many people don't get this type of appliance. In fact most don't know they exist. I simply tell them that as I shave my head, a wash and dry on the other end is pretty cool. It's a great piece of equipment. Highly recommend them.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Thanks all for weighing in on this topic. Herring_maven, I appreciate your posting the graphic from the operation manual. Most folks have limited experience with bidet seats, or as Inax calls them "Advanced Toilet Seats," so it is not often that someone can compare the Toto vs the Inax based on personal experience. I appreciate that you can and that you are willing to share your thoughts.

I'm still undecided but leaning toward the Inax without the remote control.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Thanks all for weighing in on this topic. Herring_maven, I appreciate your posting the graphic from the operation manual. Most folks have limited experience with bidet seats, or as Inax calls them "Advanced Toilet Seats," so it is not often that someone can compare the Toto vs the Inax based on personal experience. I appreciate that you can and that you are willing to share your thoughts.

I'm still undecided but leaning toward the Inax without the remote control.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Just found the Inax Clessence with 15% off and free shipping. Total was a little less than $470, so it came in well under my $750 budget. The company gets mediocre reviews for slow shipping, but I am in no hurry. The company is called Medex Supply and the code for 15% off is 10HOLIDAY.

One thing I cannot find on the Inax website or the site where I purchased the seat, which side is the power cord on? Electrician is pulling wires today. I had him put the outlet on the left side of the toilet as you are facing it. He said he could easily move it if it weren't in the correct location. Now would be easier than later, though.


 o
outlet

enduring, I re-read your post and see that I have put my outlet on the side opposite the cord. Looking at your picture, it looks better to me to have the cord wrap behind the stool with the outlet on the other side. If you had to do over, would you put the outlet on the right side as you face the toilet, or would you again put it on the left?


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Bbstx, I have to LOL. The reason it looks good to you (probably) is because you can't see the outlet from that view. But the view I had posted is a view that is only seen if you are sitting (or standing:) in the bathtub. The outlet is visible from the rest of the room as shown below, along with the water intake valve. But now that I am used to it I don't notice at all.
Seat of the Inax advanced toilet seat round front. photo IMG_4156_zpsc9e9c502.jpg


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Our set-up is the potty-in-a-closet. If I leave the outlet where it is now, it won't be seen from any where in the bathroom except standing directly in front of the toilet. I think I'll just leave well enough alone. DH is the only one who might be in a position to see it, and he'll never notice.

P.S. love your tile and countertop, enduring!


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

LOL, they don't notice much, but I think he will notice the advanced toilet seat! :)

I am very pleased with my tile and counter. Thank you for your compliments. Did I say that I installed the tile and the counters all myself, with the help of several wonderful people on this forum? I fabricated the counter out of 11" wide soapstone remnants. I did a pretty mean seam. It was a lot of fun to work with. A year later, and I still love the stone. I made a sink with backsplash too.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

We are just finishing a remodel of our master bath where we have installed a BioBidet 2000, a model which I believe came out last summer. At the same time, we also installed a Coway 13 in another bathroom. This is virtually the same as the Brondell swash 1000 and they are made in the same factory in Korea. I have wanted to get a washlet toilet seat since being introduced to them in Japan about 8 years ago. I frequently stay with Japanese friends there and they have a Panasonic washlet which they have had for 20 years.
I chose the Coway/Brondell and the Bio Bidet models because I wanted unlimited (tankless) warm water as well as the dryer feature. The BioBidet was about $100 more than the Coway. I did get a 10% discount because I purchased two and shipping and tax were free. To compare the two after using them for a couple of weeks now, I would say that I am very happy with both. The water pressure, heated seat, wand cleaning are good on both. I prefer the remote of the BioBidet because it has a screen making it easier to see how you have the various features set. The dryer function is better on the Coway/Brondell. The BioBidet is on a brand new Toto Legato toilet which I have to say is a great toilet. The Coway is on an old American Standard. They are about the same size and both look very nice. If I were to purchase another washlet, I would probably get the Coway or Brondell, only because of the $100 cost difference.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

bbstx: "Just found the Inax Clessence with 15% off and free shipping.

"One thing I cannot find on the Inax website or the site where I purchased the seat, which side is the power cord on? Electrician is pulling wires today. I had him put the outlet on the left side of the toilet as you are facing it. He said he could easily move it if it weren't in the correct location. Now would be easier than later, though."

On the Clessence, the cord comes from the underside of the back of the control "armrest," the left side as you face the toilet. We installed the outlet on a side wall immediately adjacent.

While you are installing the outlet for the toilet seat, you may wish to consider installing a nightlight outlet like the Pass & Seymour 1595NTLTRWCC4; it has a light sensor, so it illuminates only in the dark, and the LED light consumes minuscule current and has a predicted life expectancy of about 20 years. Ours gives off sufficient light that we need not turn on the overhead bathroom light for "night visits" (when our pupils are dilated in the dark and the bright overhead light would force us to squint).

Here is a link that might be useful: Pass & Seymour 1595NTLTRWCC4

This post was edited by herring_maven on Wed, Dec 4, 13 at 11:05


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

sophierex, thanks for the recommendations. If we put in a second bidet seat, I'll give those brands a closer look, especially since the Brondell can be purchased at Costco.

h_m, thanks for the link to the cool outlet. My plan right now is to install LED lights (maybe tape-lights) in the vanity toe-kick to illuminate the bathroom at night. The potty-in-a-closet is at the farthest end of the bathroom from the bedroom. I need to compare the two.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

my husband is very interested in a "japanese toilet" for our master bath. it seems as though this thread is comparing washing seats. are there also toilet units? is there any preference as to seat or toilet?


 o
Is your huband a partner in Goldman Sachs?

AGK3003: "my husband is very interested in a "japanese toilet" for our master bath. it seems as though this thread is comparing washing seats. are there also toilet units? is there any preference as to seat or toilet?"

Kohler makes the NUMI; Toto makes the NEOREST; Inax makes the SATIS. All three are complete toilets; use your favorite search engine to check them out. They are not cheap; most of us would not call any of them "affordable."

They also have . . . erm . . . personalities. Reportedly, the Kohler NUMI can leave you stranded at the Blue Screen of Death, from which the only exit is Ctrl-Alt-Del, or even a cold reboot. (Ask not what a "cold reboot" means when you are sitting, half-naked, atop a toilet.)

The advanced toilet seats / bidet seats / "washlets" (Washlet is a registered trademark of Toto) provide almost all of the functionality of a SATIS/NEOREST/NUMI at a fraction of the cost, and (generally) will fit most modern toilets -- Inax advanced toilet seats will fit on current model Toto toilets and Toto Washlets will fit on Inax toilets -- without modification or a hiccup. As Toto and Inax also make the most advanced toilets-without-seats, mixing and matching is easy; and almost all of the combinations will make the user as happy as a NEOREST or a NUMI or a SATIS would, and with a more robust bank account after purchase. And the advanced seats suffer from fewer complications than their complete toilet cousins.

This post was edited by herring_maven on Thu, Dec 5, 13 at 13:29


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Inax makes the "Satis". It is an example of a toilet unit. But these are crazy expensive. Toto has them. I am sure others do too.
Satis:
Satis by Inax photo smallressatisD-S418S-VL-US_zps5e75d456.jpg


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

Herring Maven, I love your "blue screen" scenario LOL! Great information.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

HA! h_m, just saw your changed re: line in response to .AGK3003 You're right!


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

jackfre: "To me, this is the type of appliance that I want to buy from the market leader, and that is Toto in my opinion."

The advanced toilet seat is a product for which there are (at least) two market leaders. If Inax and Toto were German automobile makers, they would be BMW and Mercedes: Mercedes and Toto are larger and more staid than thir rivals, while Inax and BMW are a bit trendier and pioneering; Inax is smaller than Toto, but, like BMW, by any standard it is a giant multinational corporation.

Inax's parent corporation, Lixil, purchased American Standard in June of this year, and followed that up three months later by purchasing German plumbing fixture maker Grohe for $4 billion the way that you or I might purchase a loaf of bread at the supermarket.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

My Inax Clesssence was installed finally yesterday. I'm liking it - a lot! The fixed "armrest" is not an issue at all. One of the better purchases for the new house! Thanks to all who gave advice and opinions.

P.S. The shipping from the place I bought, Medex, it did not seem slow at all. Of course, it could be because I was in no hurry.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

@herring_maven, I'm thinking of getting the Inax Clessence CW-H230-RW (for round toilet seat), which has the control panel attached to the side of the seat, for my mom. However, I cannot find any documentation which says that the spray can be oscillating (automatic movement of the position of the spray back and forth). Does their bidet support that?


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

jimrin: "I'm thinking of getting the Inax Clessence CW-H230-RW (for round toilet seat), which has the control panel attached to the side of the seat, for my mom. However, I cannot find any documentation which says that the spray can be oscillating (automatic movement of the position of the spray back and forth). Does their bidet support that?"

The Inax Clessence does not have an oscillation feature. I do not know whether the R-series or L-series Inax seats have that option.

The specific model of the two Toto Washlets that are installed in our sister and bother-in-law's home in Kamakura does have that feature, and, being the curious type, I have given it a couple of test drives. Not a feature that I would use even if we had it on ours at home. To be fair, the trial was not apple-to-apples or oranges-to-oranges, because the angle of incidence of the spray from their one-wand Toto Washlet is much closer to horizontal, and the angle of incidence of the spray from our two-wand Inax Clessence is much closer to vertical, than the other. Perhaps I would have liked the oscillating spray more if it were incorporated in a more vertical spray; it is difficult to speculate.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

@herring_maven, ahhh interesting, I'm now very curious how the Inax performs, so most likely will go ahead and buy it. Thanks!


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

jimrin, We have now had our Inax Clessence in use in the Master Bathroom for 6 months. I'm still quite pleased with it.

And I'm also pleased with Inax's customer service. Somehow, the little flap that covers the blower disappeared (I'm guessing vigorous cleaning on the part of my cleaning service). I called customer service and they promptly sent me another one. The cs rep I got spent some time explaining to me how to install the new flap (not hard if you know which side to put in first). He then gave me his direct number so that if I had any difficulty, I could call him and he could walk me through it. The part came quickly and was a breeze to install.


 o
RE: Toto Washlet vs BioBidet vs Brondell Swash

I've had mine for about 18 months and still love it. I


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Bathrooms Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here