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odense1_gw

Carrera Marble Tile Discoloring

odense1
13 years ago

We did an addition and renovation of our master bath about 1 1/2 years ago. The shower is a walk-in shower with carrera marble basketweave tiles in white with green accents. The floor in the bathroom is fine, but the shower has gotten steadily darker and the darkened area now extends into the main bathroom floor. A few pieces of the tile have yellowed. We have not used the shower for about two months, so one of the main reasons for the renovation is absent and the floor does not look any better. Does anyone know if the darkening can be corrected? What might be the cause of this darkening?

Comments (38)

  • bill_vincent
    13 years ago

    Can you please take a couple of pictures and show us?

  • odense1
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks for the response Here's an album to click for photos.

    http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy295/Centuryhouse123/Carrera%20Marble%20Basketweave%20Bathroom%20Floor/

    Here is a link that might be useful: Carrera Marble Basketweave Bathroom Floor

  • bill_vincent
    13 years ago

    So others won't have to go looking:

    Not sure. it almost looks like the weepholes are plugged in the shower, which would be why the shower pan is darkening. If that darkened area in the bathroom floor is immediately adjacent to the shower, it could be that water trapped in the pan is whicking up the cement board behind the tile, up and over the pan membrane and spilling out, appearing as a leak.

    As for the yellow stains, cheap carrara is notorious for having iron deposits in it, and those iron deposits can and will begin to rust after a time, causing yellow or orange rust stains.

  • shaughnn
    13 years ago

    Hello Odense1,
    I'm afraid that Bill is correct about iron deposits being the cause of your staining. I suspect that the darkening effect is being caused by the tile being saturated with water, and not plugged weep holes. The tiles will probably return to their original white color when they dry out completely. Bad news is that that could be 3 months to a year of non-use and the doors left open for ventilation.
    Sorry,
    Shaughnn

  • catherineri
    13 years ago

    You mention cheap carrara being notorious for high iron content - is there any way to tell this (besides price), before you buy it. Is this an issue of sealant? I'm about to pull the trigger on an order for shower walls and floor and this makes me worried. Thanks. Catherine

  • gorillakilla
    13 years ago

    The only way to correct that is to completely remove the affected area and find a reputable installer to redo it.

    Catherine if installed properly, you should be able to enjoy your shower for a long time.

    Keep in mind all white marbles will eventually oxidize(read yellow) over their lifetime above ground. just the nature of the beast.

    best way to fight that is to hire a reputable stone installer, keep in mind not all "tile guys" are "stone guys"

  • bill_vincent
    13 years ago

    Keep in mind all white marbles will eventually oxidize(read yellow) over their lifetime above ground.

    If you're talking decades (plural), I MIGHT agree with you. I know of atleast one shower I did in carrara for my sister in 1987 that hasn't started yellowing yet.

  • gorillakilla
    13 years ago

    yes bill i do mean decades, more than 3 or 4 if installed correctly

    i have numerous remnants and cutouts laying around my yard that is exposed to the elements, not the best place for them but my guys dont always think through when things are busy. we do a fair share of old home restoration, 90% of them have had this problem to some degree

    the moisture they absorbed reacted with what little iron content they have and they have all changed color

    that was my main reason for advising catherineini to find a reputable installer. moisture is the killer

  • dianalo
    13 years ago

    What about in a half bath with no shower or tub? Would that keep them whiter longer? Sealed, of course...

  • cindaloutx
    13 years ago

    I am about to go with a carrera slab vanity top (no worries) in our guest bath, but now am worried about the beautiful marble shower sill that we had planned.
    The guy at the marble yard was helpful but spoke mostly Russian....
    How do you seal off the bottom of the sill so it doesn't leach moisture upwards and perhaps start rust stains?
    My tile guy is great but hasn't done many marble sills so isn't sure about the 10 year problems....

  • Stacey Collins
    13 years ago

    OK, I'll jump in..... rookie2010, I'll bet you read the thread about my bathroom on JB!

    Bill's rebuild of the shower pan did remedy the situation. (In our case, even after weeks and weeks and fans and everything, the marble in the shower floor did not dry out. The whole shower floor was rebuilt -thanks to Bill, thank goodness we had such a great and conscientious installer!- and that issue was resolved, although the exact cause was never 100% pinpointed, I don't think.)

    BUT: that is not to say the shower floor always looks dry and uniform now.

    I did NOT seal the floor after it was rebuilt, on Bill's advice. The penetrating sealer is breathable, so (correct me if I'm misinterpreting, Bill) he felt that water would still penetrate but have a harder time evaporating back out. We DO see the marble darken after each shower. If no one showers for a few days, it all dries out. If someone showers every day, there is not enough time for the tile to dry out and it remains darkened. The darkening that happens after showering is not uniform: it is mainly in those areas that get the most water. So: one corner, which get's little direct water, is basically always light-colored. The area the shower stream hits most absorbs the most water and takes the longest to dry out. So.... oftentimes the floor looks mottled.

    It's apparently just the nature of the beast, using a porous stone in a shower.

  • rookie_2010
    13 years ago

    Stacey,
    It was the thread about your shower! Thank goodness you scored Bill for the job. What you're experiencing now, with darkened areas where the most water hits, is EXACTLY what I'm getting so I'm so grateful for your response!

    I'm going to continue to keep an eye on itand follow threads like this one, just in case.

  • lupine6
    13 years ago

    Ok this is scary. Would the carrrera (or any marble) shower WALLS do this too? Thinking now of just doing the walls and something else for shower floor.

  • Jeannine
    13 years ago

    I really wouldn't worry about the walls.

    I squeegee (sp?) mine after every shower and they are just fine, color wise.

  • lupine6
    13 years ago

    I noticed while tile shopping over the weekend that the smaller marble tiles do have yellowish discoloring on the grouted samples displayed. it seemed to be on all shapes except the 1x1, 3x6, 12x12 and patterns that didn't have a lot of veining. The basket weave ones were tinted yellow in a lot of the tiles. I wonder why that is? They are not in contact with water obviously.

    I do currently have a half bath with 1x1 marble on the walls. Zero problems. The marble is really more white with bling bits in it. Was cheap about $10 a sq ft//but no problems. Decided against any marble in shower. Will do subways in shower now and debating marble on floors outside of shower.

  • blondelle
    13 years ago

    You can also have a problem with marble on the shower walls. Someone I know did an entire bathroom in premium grade crema marfil. Some of the shower wall tiles are darker and do not lighten. The crema marfil vanity top also is darker around the facets and there are unexplained darkened areas on the floor around the toilet. The woman has OCD and squeegees right after showering and keeps everything clean.

    If you love crema marfil and don't want the hassle check out the crema marfil porcelain tile from Rondine. I couldn't tell it from the real stone. Their calacatta gold is also gorgeous and they have it in a color called staturio or something like that I haven't seen in person.

    There's nothing like real stone for beauty and luxury, but when it starts acting less than beautiful, maybe it's time to trade some of that beauty for practicality and peace of mind.

  • Danielle
    7 years ago

    Old thread. Hoping someone still responds. Stacey: I'm not having this issue with a newly renovated bathroom. Marble mosaic in shower floor. We've only used it for a week and there is serious darkening--and already some yellowing, too, in some areas. (Photos attached.) You said this still happens, even after Bill fixed the shower floor. How do you tell what's normal darkening and what isn't?



  • jstnlngls
    7 years ago

    Danielle did you ever figure this out? I'm now having the same problem I think

  • Danielle
    7 years ago

    JstnIngls: 2 months in, and I'm still not 100% sure why it does this. Yes--there are areas that turn dark grey when it's wet. They usually dry out, but it takes a good 12+ hours, and I've found that, even then, those areas still look darker.

    Our contractor, who is reputable, says he did build a custom shower pan and tested it. Who knows! I didn't know enough to check up on those things during construction.

    Our designer, who does a lot of projects with marble, said this is normal.

    We ended up having a pro stone company come out and professionally seal the shower walls and the grout--which wasn't done before. They said NOT to re-seal the floor, as the tiles are too small to do grout and there was already one layer of penetrating sealer on it.

    I have friends who have the same hex tile on their shower floor, which is now 4 years old, and it's yellowed and discolored. They really try to maintain.

    As everyone warned, marble is a PIA. It's beautiful, and I'm not to the point of regretting it, yet, but we still have those "OH MY GOSH--There's another scratch/chip/stain!" moments a little too often.

    Now, we have a new, weird thing happening: some of the mosasic tiles in both of our bathrooms have turned a very light yellow--almost pinkish. It's not terribly noticeable, but they aren't in spots that get much water on them. So, it's very strange.


  • mayflowers
    7 years ago

    The yellow/pink areas could be serratia marcescens, a bacteria.

  • Danielle
    7 years ago
    Here are a couple pics that KINDA show the yellowing. It's subtle but definitely there.

    The weird thing is that the texture of those tiles has even changed--they feel much rougher.
  • roarah
    7 years ago

    Etched marble feels rougher than non etched polished marble. Any thing with citric acid will disolve the talc within marble and etch it. Etching is not a stain it is a chemical reaction that changes the surface of the marble. These changes can appear as discoloration, water spots, dull spots or pits. Most hand soap and shampoo contain citric acid and thus can hurt your marble tile.

    Marble can contain iron and it can also absorb iron because it is so porous maybe your water has iron in it or these yellow pieces contain more iron than the other pieces and water is oxidizing the iron( rusting).

    All these " issues" you are noticing are natural and unavoidable properties of marble. It is known as patina. You either love that patina or you do not like it and change your surface but you can not have real marble and not have this natural patina. I love the patina and love marble as a living changing surface! It ages and changes like us!

  • D. Mac
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    So two of the three cararra marble tile shower floors we did in our remodel immediately started showing dark spot areas of moisture not drying from the stone the first week we started using them. A third bathroom has the exact same tiles with no discoloration at all. The hot mop person says pooling should have been detected and repaired prior to tiling, and that it could also be inconsistent material used under the tile. We have the same one foot circle type area and a 2-6 inch area along a wall. NOT areas where water hits more often and not next to the drain. We went a way for four days, came back and the darkened spots were all gone, but they do not dry in a day or two days. After first use, dark spots reappeared and have not gone away. Definitely moisture coming from underneath.

    The gc first said it was due to bird bath or low spots in the pan, then said it wasn't that when I said then it needs to be ripped out and replaced. Then he said it was normal and he sees it all the time and we just have to live with it...... then switched to it just needs to be resealed. Please advise if this makes sense to any experts on here or if it needs to be ripped out and done over?

  • PRO
    Creative Tile Eastern CT
    7 years ago

    Yes that is what is called a bird's bath in your photo.(installer error) Yes it is marble and will absorb. When the spots do not dry in a day or two and you use the shower daily they will grow. Sometimes up the wall. Do not seal without contacting the sealer manufacturer first. You could slow the evaporation rate even more.

  • D. Mac
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thank you. Is the only real solution removing floor and lower wall and redoing? Hot mop pro says gc or stone installer should have caught the bird bath low areas and repaired. Is that how you would see it as well? Also, when you say moisture can grow up the wall, I assume you mean above the hot mopped areas and pan. Would that cause mold and other problems? What would you suggest as reasonable options? Replace or live with the discoloration?

  • PRO
    Creative Tile Eastern CT
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Do you have any in progress photo's? I was referring to moisture migrating through the stone. Without knowing how the work was performed beneath the marble it's difficult to answer your questions in detail. I don't want to point the finger of blame but it certainly is not your fault so let the others deal with that among themselves. It could be a big problem or none at all. Perhaps a extended warranty or $$$ plus extended warranty. Whatever you decide be sure to get it in writing.

  • D. Mac
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The work on the rest of the house is complete and we didn't discover the issue until we had lived in the house for a few weeks. It was part of a big makeover of the whole house. Fortunately there is an unpaid balance for credits not applied to invoices, and things just not finished until recently, but I am not sure if it would be sufficient $ to cover ripping out the floors of these showers and doing over. The frustration is that this is not the first thing this gc has said, oh it is fine and normal and then we had to raise a stink, research then insist to get made right, so I am not confident what an extended warranty would be worth from him. It is an upscale neighborhood and costs of the bathrooms were high. The hot mop pro says he doesn't know how puddling would not have been caught and addressed before laying the tile. That it wouldn't have passed inspection in LA county at all. We want to determine if the potential for future problems stemming from this vs. deciding if we can live with permanently wet looking discolored areas with some $$$ allowance to avoid dealing with contractors and workers in the house again is OK. Is there future leak issues or mold? The gc still says it is normal with Carrara tile and he sees it all the time and wants his last payment. The hot mop pro says he sees this in cheaper neighborhoods with poor workmanship and no inspections, but not in nicer homes.

  • PRO
    Creative Tile Eastern CT
    7 years ago

    Use your local building inspector. Let them make the call. I don't think your contractor wants to be on the bad side of the inspector.

  • D. Mac
    7 years ago

    Sounds like a good strategy

  • Sandy Seidenfrau Gnirke
    7 years ago

    We had a new house built and moved in about 2 months ago. We had white carrera marble 24 inch square tiles installed on the floor of our master bathroom. The tiles seem to be developing thick white veins in them, whihc make the tile look cracked, even though it isn't. What could be causing this and is there any remedy?

  • pippabean
    7 years ago

    Sandy - can you post pictures?

  • kentuckycolonel
    7 years ago

    Sandy, we had a white line develop across 24" marble tiles on the wall of our shower. We already had one crack line across the tiles lower down the wall and unfortunately the white line also became a crack.

  • Para
    6 years ago
    Do the very dark spots appear normal?
  • sheryl collier
    4 years ago

    Ours (new) is doing the same thing. Our expert tiler used white mastic? (Some have suggested the problem may be that a dark color was used) and has only been used 10x. The first is before using it, the bottom is after



  • PRO
    Creative Tile Eastern CT
    4 years ago

    "Our expert tiler used white mastic?"

    If mastic was used the entire installation is a failure. Verify setting material.

    Without in progress photos to see the shower floor assembly any comment would be speculation. You did select marble so this scenario is not a surprise.

    Starting a new thread instead of adding to one that is 3 yrs old would also help you.


  • sheryl collier
    4 years ago

    Thank you. It was white thin set, not mastic.

  • PRO
    Mint tile Minneapolis
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    We just did a case study on this issue with likely chinese sourced honed cararra,

    There are a few interesting things to report here.

    A. The entire bathroom is waterproofed just below tile to a bonding flange drain.

    B. Used white Multi Max mortar from laticrete and permacolor select grout.

    (important to note that due to the design of the drain i used i had to build up my Medium bed Multi max to nearly 5/8" thickness at the drain. This is very unusual but had to be)

    The clients had used the shower daily for a month before we sealed the floor. There were no wet spots, dried out fine everyday.

    I sealed the floor with 2 coats of Bulletproof sealer a month ago now and no issues to report daily use by 2.



    The Mystery lives on ;)



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