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monkeyta123

Help! Lippage and low grout acceptable?

monkeyta123
9 years ago

After all the tiles were put down, I noticed some very bad lippage on about 10 tiles. Smaller lippage all over entire area. After discussion, the contractor popped out and reset about 20 planks due to very bad lippage. The contractor assured me once the grout was applied, the remaining lippage should not be a problem.

Now the grout was applied and waiting to be sealed. I can see there are still noticeable lippages everywhere. See pictures. The grout was applied pretty low along grout line. The sharp edges of rectified tiles, plus lippage hurt my feet when walked on it. The light of afternoon sun just made the lippage looked worse. I measured, now the remaining lippage heights are from credit card thickness to penny thickness, on both the long and short sides of the plank. The grout is about 0.035-0.05" low to the surface of the tiles.

At this point, are the low grout and lippage acceptable? Should I accept this kind of work? How could it be fixed, if could?

On top of those two problems, I found out that 25 tiles make hallow sounds when finger tapped. I could feel vibration from the tiles when tapping. The installer said they are caused by holes in mortar and is normal and will not cause tiles to crack. After talking to him, he is going to replace about 8 really bad loose tiles, but leave the rest of 17 tiles as it is because he thinks acceptable.

Background information: Installer put down about 600 sqt of large format 8x48 wood looking rectified tiles for livingroom and dinnering room. the tiles are well made by Elegaza Natura Wood, and imported from Italy, about $7 sqt.

http://www.eleganzatiles.com/product-series/porcelain/nature-series.html.

I used Nature Wood - Miele 8x48
The installer is a licensed tile setter. The grout line are set to about 3/32 without using spacers. The subfloor was prepared with no any special treatment. Glue sealed large cracks. The rest, he just smoothed out the concrete.

Thank you very much for your opinions and suggestions.
Monkeyta123

Comments (12)

  • numbersjunkie
    9 years ago

    I feel your pain - had similar issues with my kitchen family room install a few years ago. Go post your info on the john bridge tile forum where lots of pros hang out. If they agree that it is not acceptable, that will give you more leverage with your installer than any comments you get here. Hope you can get this resolved to your satisfaction.

  • monkeyta123
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    numbersjunkie ,Thank you very much for your suggestion.

  • numbersjunkie
    9 years ago

    sure hope you don't have heat wires under that floor - we did and couldn't risk having some tiles torn out and damaging the wire. I later found out there are tile leveling systems many installers use on the rectified large format tiles to prevent/minimize the lippage.

  • Bunny
    9 years ago

    Isn't the selling point of rectified tile to have minimal grout lines? I don't see what good they are if they are so prone to lippage.

    Also, I have raised floors (the kind that aren't slab). I have Ditra under my floor tile. Do tiles on slab floors just go straight on top of the slab? How do they deal with the irregularities in the floor?

  • monkeyta123
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    There are no heat wires under the tiles. No any leveling material was used to flat the concrete subfloor. The tile guy just did the work as a regular tile job. The grout line is 3/32 without spacer. the Installer eye balled. Additive was applied on slab to set tiles.

  • Bunny
    9 years ago

    monkeyta, have you been over to the John Bridge site with your photos and questions? They are amazing over there, very helpful and quick to respond.

  • monkeyta123
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I have just registered an account on John Bridge site. But I am not allowed to post now. Waiting for admin to review and grant permission to post there.

  • StoneTech
    9 years ago

    Don't know why you weren't instantly approved there. I wasn't aware that was procedure...

    Lippage can be a real issue with the longer "wood plank tile." The floor must be very flat and the installer must know what he's doing. I always use a "medium bed morter" as this prevents the tiles from sinking down a bit as they set. One needs to hold them up to a level plane during curing.

  • Babka NorCal 9b
    9 years ago

    That is unacceptable to me.

    -Babka

  • monkeyta123
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    To StoneTech : Flat floor and "medium bed morter" or "large format morter" are two keys. I hope other people be aware about this and learn from my experience.

  • loves2read
    9 years ago

    We redid flooring in house built in 80s -- concrete foundation was the surface that carpet and linoleum was laid on originally--no tile even in bathrooms. We did tile in kitchen and new carpet once and then a bigger remodel in 2008--and changed all flooring to either same larger format sq 18" or 20" tiles or laid new carpet...
    there were some areas that were problems because the foundation was not level--
    the original builder didn't care about it because he was not installing anything that needed a very smooth finish---carpet and vinyl linoleum are very forgiving. Porcelein tiles aren't--and the larger the tile, the less the forgiving.
    MY contractor was a good tile guy for some things but he did not check for areas with significant slope/irregularity--and I didn't know enough then to ask for it.
    He should have poured leveling compound or used the liner in several areas--one in bathroom hall and one in area of kitchen especially.
    He wound up having to grind down one spot in the hall because he just couldn't add enough mortar base to level the floor--
    even after he did there were some "joins" where there were corners sticking up--you couldn't grind those down w/o causing cracks or flaws in the tile...

    so many people are going to the larger format tiles and most don't know that the floor below has to be very level to make a quality install...same with walls in bathrooms for larger format tiles...
    maybe that might be factor in the width of the planks being installed but I would bet that is more the installer not being accustomed to tight joins and just doing it "his" way...
    He should have givien you a sample board with the same grout he will use on the install before he laid any of them...