Okay, I think we should type up a message that says -caulk not grout in change of plane, include detailed instructions on how to caulk. We then email the message to every tile shop in every country and demand that they give it to every tiler that enters their store.

Picture that. I've been told at the local Dal warehouse that they stock their lines of caulking for me and two other area contractors (also incidently, both of the others are ALSO members at John Bridge's forum). No one else even uses them.

Pretty sad.

Sounds like my problem is a common one! So is there a particular type of caulk that's best for inside a shower? Something that resists mildew and holds up well but won't be too hard to peel out and replace when it eventually breaks down?

Should that outside corner be caulked too (rather than grouted?) In any place that's caulked, am I within my rights to insist that all the old grout (not just the loose stuff) be removed before caulking? I think the reason the caulk line is so thick is because it went over grout.

lor53, unfortunately it is THE most common problem. I practically stood over my tiler insisting that he not grout the corners, but as soon as I left the room he would grout corners. Then when he came back to caulk he made a huge mess of it and used white caulk even though I had handed him colour matched caulk I had gone out of my way to find. Anyways... if the outside corner isn't cracking it should be okay, (I seem to remember Bill saying outside corners are usually okay and ours hasn't cracked). All the other grout should be removed NOT just caulked over. Caulking over grout is basically like using duct tape or a big bandaid to hold it all in.

Most grout companies make a colour matched caulk. I found ours at Rona (sort of like Lowes or HD only in Canada) but you can order through any tile store. Most of the caulks come mildew resistant. You can get sanded or unsanded. Only difference is looks -sanded matches grout better (IMO).

Make sure you clean really well where you remove the caulk or the new caulk won't stick. Good luck and yes you are within your rights to insist all the old be grout be removed. The grout in our kitchen took a full change of seasons before it started to crack and fall out, but it did and from reading this forum for a few years, I can pretty much guarantee yours will as well.

Although I knew caulk was preferred by many experts, I decided to grout the inside corners of my shower when we remodeled because I really hate working with it. I figured the worst that could happen is I'd have to dig it out later and replace it with caulk. (Besides, the guys on JB's forum gave me permission if I recall correctly :)

Anyway, it's now several years later - five, I think - and the grout is still holding tight. No problems whatsoever, knock on tile.

Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that the grout is falling apart so quickly?

Yadax-- not really. If there's alot of movement in the house (and it usually happens in the spring and fall), it can start coming apart at the inside corners pretty quickly.

Lor-- budge is right-- the outside corners are fine. As for what kind of caulking, use a siliconized latex caulk put out by the same manufacturer as your grout that's color and texture matched to your grout.

Thanks to all for the feedback. I will ask the tile guy to remove all the grout and caulk where the floor and walls meet and then use a white caulk on it. I think white will be less noticeable than trying to match the light gray grout, since the tiles are all white.

It does seems odd to me that the grout problems came up so quickly, but this sounds pretty fixable. I just want a nice clean watertight seam along those shower edges.

Budge1 that's interesting what you said about sanded caulk matching grout better. Does it have a different finish, so it doesn't have that shiny plastic look to it?

Keep in mind-- the caulking doesn't provide for waterproofing. It's there as a soft moveable joint.

Bill, I thought it was important to keep water out of that space between the wall and floor tile. But I get your point--the actual waterproofing comes from what was done to the walls and floor before any tile went up. Thanks for the advice re what type of caulk to get. Now I just hope the installer does a careful job of fixing things up.

Lor, it's been my experience that no matter how much you stand over them, many of the tile contractors do whatever they want.

I found out that mine did not put any vapour barrier because he believes (and strongly so) that the barrier is what causes moisture buildup and trouble behind the Hardi board. The other thing he argued about and did his way was to put grout between the tub and tile instead of caulk! He caulked up at the ceiling area, and around the tiles behind the toilet bowl, but heck, he left the tub area with grout.

Bill, can this be covered with caulk or should I get him back in to scrape it off and replace with caulk? I swear that some of these "experts" need to find a different job.

Good luck with yours Lor.

Never caulk over grout. It's too easy for it to peel back off. It needs to be able to anchor itself in the joint.

Found this thread when searching for information on leaking showers. If, as Bill says, "the caulking doesn't provide for waterproofing. It's there as a soft moveable joint." And Budge1 says, "caulk not grout in change of plane." How is the corner (in this case an outer corner where our Corian shower pan, frameless glass and ceramic tile meet)of a shower made watertight? We have an issue with the inside of our shower leaking to the outside floor and want to know how to fix it properly.

My FIL did the install approximately 8 years ago. He used TEC Sturdi Flex thin set, TEC sanded grout and TEC sanded caulk for the tile work on two walls over the Corian shower pan we had made for the space. Custom frameless shower enclosure was installed by the glass guy.

We've had issues with the same corner several times. My father in law dug out and re-caulked twice. The caulk cracks between the bottom of the tile and the Corian shower pan and water leaks out- is there a way to repair this that lasts? Thank you!

In this case, it IS there as a water repellent. As for the cracking, I just erased a whole paragraph. Any chance you could take a couple of pics and show me what you have?

Thank you for your reply! Will do my best to post a photo tomorrow evening/Sat. morning.

Well Bill V., it took a while, but here's a link to our Corian shower pan/caulk/grout problem. Is there a solution for this application? Thank you!

Here is a link that might be useful: shower pix

Bump for Bill V. Thank you!

Was there EVER silicone caulk in that joint?

Thank you for answering Bill V.! TEC sanded caulk was used to match the TEC sanded grout. TEC says there is a silicone additive to the caulk. Is that what you mean by "silicone caulk"? Thank you!

How long after recaulking does it take to crack?

6-8 months, I'd say, before it looks like it starting to crack, then it slowly gets worse. It's a very gradual process, but we would like to fix it properly and are stumped.

Initially (6 years ago, thought it was 8), there wasn't an issue. The shower space was great for a few years, but then the corner developed a leak/the caulk cracked. When the first leak started, we dug out the old stuff and re-did it with new caulk. My father in law could have glopped some clear silicone in there before re-caulking, we just don't know (he doesn't remember either!). I have used bleach to clean the shower, and while I think that's probably not the best thing to use on caulk, it can't be the reason the caulk job falls apart, can it?

Do you have any advice as to how to tackle this issue? What steps would you take to re-do this area? We haven't used the shower for 2 months, so it's definitely dry. Thank you for any thoughts on this Bill V.!

Bump for Bill V. Thank you!

I have used bleach to clean the shower, and while I think that's probably not the best thing to use on caulk, it can't be the reason the caulk job falls apart, can it?

You're right, on both counts. This has got me stumped. Usually, when something like this happens there are other symptoms, as well, such as grout and/ or tile cracking, because the only thing I can think of that would create this much movement would be swelled framing from moisture getting at it.

Yes, it's been a confounding problem over the years. If you were to take a stab at repairing this, what steps would you take? What products would you use? Thank you!

If I were to take a stab at this, I wouldn't even venture a guess until I'd had a chance to take a look at it in person, and examine it. But whatever's done will most likely include opening up that wall to see what's causing the movement, because what you've done has been the proper thing, and you shouldn't be getting the result you are, which tells me there's something going on there that shouldn't be. It's not a matter of using the wrong caulking or wrong procedure for APPLYING the caulking, and whatever it is that's going on needs to be rectified, otherwise anything you do will be in vain.

You need to see about getting someone local to take a look at it.

Thank you for taking the time to answer Bill V.! Was hoping, of course, that you'd say, 'oh, we see this all the time. You need to do a, b, c to correct it.' Alas, was hoping to avoid a big overhaul, but if we need to rip it apart, so be it. Thanks again!