No channels or clip on the tile sill?

I own a glazing contracting business (38 years) & we install about 5-6 heavy glass enclosures like yours each week. Our normal method of installation (starting on the left in the picture) would be to apply a c-channel or 2 glass clamps at the vertical on the return lite, a channel or 2 glass clamps at the bottom of the return lite, a channel or 2 glass clamps at the bottom of the side lite, and a 90* over-glass clamp at the top where the return lite and side lite form the 90* angle. The deflection you experience in the side lite is not necessarily an issue. We usually make a judgment call and suggest the home owner elect to use 1/2" glass in lieu of 3/8 if we think the HO will be uncomfortable with the amount of deflection in the side lite. Your alternatives would have been to go with a header to stiffen the side lite, or a support bar attached to the leading edge of the side lite and attached to a wall at 90* or the return lite at 45*.

We don't advocate for "gluing" shower enclosures in place with silicone, but we just removed a shower, configured like yours but much larger, that had no fasteners other than the screws attaching the hinges to the wall or jamb. It had been in place for 20 years + and showed no sign of going anywhere.

In your particular place, I would have offered you something of a choice - explaining your best interests, I would have recommended you either allow us to use clamps or channel at the bottom and an over glass clamp at the 90* top joint or use a header to tie everything together. If those options weren't what you had in mind, I would have politely separated myself from the project.

Al

This post was edited by tapla on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 11:48

There are no clips or channels on the sill at all. The only 'hardware' is on the glass pieces that are attached to the wall. I am actually not happy with the sidelight only being 'siliconed' in. Is it an easy fix? (I will call the glass company tomorrow, but wondering what I should ask to be done). Thanks!

Gosh! Your neighbor is going to have a great view!

I'd be worried too. Looks like you are getting some answers.

You're apt to get stonewalled with, "I've been doing this for X number of years and never ....." and that may be true. All I can say is I wouldn't have installed it sans channel or clamps. You might want to ask the glass company who he used as a source for the glass. If he used a company that is in the business of targeting shower door sales as one of their markets, they will have guidelines they recommend so consumers don't have issues that land them in the company of a judge and jury.

You could ask why you weren't consulted about install methodology & make it known you're not comfortable. I don't know how competitive your market area is, but I would hate to think a glass company would forgo a few dollars worth of metal and a half hour labor for a few dollars additional profit.

Just as a point of curiosity - does the caulking job look neat and professional? Attention to detail often says a lot about standards and how interested in referrals/repeat business a company is. Also, was the glass company working for you or the builder?

Good luck.

Al

LOL about the 'view'! There will be blinds on the window before we move in. ;)

The glass company was hired by my builder. They install showers all the time. I was not consulted as to the install method and honestly, I never thought to ask, as I assumed they would know what they were doing. The only thing I discussed with the installer was the height of the glass and he told me there would have to be a channel installed along the tile because the wall was not plumb. Yes, the caulking job is extremely neat and well done.

Can the metal clamps simply be added, or does the whole thing have to come down?

This post was edited by carra on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 20:51

If the wall isn't plumb, he could have simply ordered the glass out of square. Easily 9/10 of all heavy glass shower enclosures we install have one or more lites ordered out of square in order that we get as near to a perfect fit as we possibly can.

For us, it's not about what's easiest or fastest, or what potentially offers the most profit $s, it's making sure the job is done correctly and the home owner is pleased with the end product. Glass companies, like other businesses, have widely divergent approaches to how business is conducted. We feel that if you work as hard as possible toward making sure the customer thinks of you with a smile, the bottom line takes care of itself. Often, that means more communication than we might sometimes prefer, but in the end, it ends being a good thing.

The clamps we would use for your application require that the glass be fabricated to accommodate their use, but there are clamps that don't require any special fabrication. That, however, isn't the most significant bump in the road. Your door is already located and can't effectively be moved to accommodate the added ht that occurs when the glass clamp is added under the glass, which probably raises the glass ht by at least 1/8 - 3/16". Even using a channel, now, would raise the glass above door ht. New glass would be req'd for the side lite and return lite, and you're likely going to get resistance from the installer and perhaps the builder.

We always try hard to make sure the home owner is on board with the install method or that the builder accepts responsibility for making that decision FOR the home owner. For instance, we don't want to install an enclosure with channel when the home owner saw a picture in a magazine and because of the picture was expecting clamps. It's always better to ensure everyone is on the same page before anything is ordered.

Keep us posted - I'm curious to know what transpires.

Al

I was given two options: 1) Add a header, which requires replacing the shower door. $600 2) Add a support bar. $150

He doesn't feel the door will go anywhere, even if someone walked into it, but understands that it is disconcerting to have so much wobble in the side light.

I do wish they'd told me about the option of a header at the beginning, as I would most likely have chosen that one.

By coincidence, our rep from Hoskins & Muir (Cardinal Shower Doors) was in today. I asked him about your installation, if it was typical. He was surprised and said, "No" ..... and that they wouldn't warrant the glass w/o the added integrity provided by channel or clamps, though I'm not sure how he would know what caused the breakage unless he was willing to do a jobsite inspection in the event of a fracture. If you ask the glass guy who his supplier is and that supplier won't warrant the glass because of the installation, it would seem the glass guy would have to be willing to meet at least that minimum standard.

It kind of irks me to know that there are glass companies out there doing things like this to get work, or to maximize their profits by using standards that raise such questions. If I had to bid against this guy in the same market area, I'm going to be 2 hours high on labor ($160 in our market area) + few extra $s for .5 stock length of channel - so maybe $200 off the pace. In most cases, that's a deal breaker unless you can get the homeowner to focus on value instead of price, and you sell your company before the product.

I sold a heavy shower partition only today that is 48 X 86 and a fraction. The shower is large enough that only the partition was needed (no door). We are using channel on 1 wall and the curb. I told the customer I had no qualms about the safety aspect of the amount of deflection there would be in the glass at the leading edge near the top because of how secure the glass would be in the channel, but felt the customer would have concerns, so suggested the glass should go all the way to the ceiling for this application so we could use a clamp at that corner.

Send me an email and I'll forward the quote to you, along with the drawings.

Al