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young_gardener54

HELP! Should my tile look like this?!?

young-gardener
13 years ago

I just took a look after the tile guy left. He'll be back in the morning. I'm worried, particularly, because I'm going to use a gray grout. Does this look right to you?

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Comments (32)

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

  • rookie_2010
    13 years ago

    Hi,
    Pre-grout tile is horrifying isn't it?
    I'm fairly sure that's how mine looked pre-grout. Although, I don't see any spacers on yours. The pattern on yours looks just like mine does but it looks like he should have used some spacers on the border (left side, picture #9), kinda looks like they might not be very evenly spaced.
    I think you should re-post with a new subject line that specifically calls on an expert, hopefully Bill Vincent or Mongoct (sp) will respond. Something like "Tile Experts Please Look!"
    In the meantime, here are some pics of my similar shower. Will your niches be framed with a trim piece?
    {{gwi:1428280}}

    {{gwi:1466769}}

    Best of luck, I LOVE your tile selections!

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks! I keep clinging to the "after" pictures I see. What worries me is the uneven spacing around the niches, and in their corners. I'm using a gray grout, and I'm worried it will look even more even as a result. We just had the tile butted end to end, no spacers. We didn't request a frame, but I'm starting to think that may have worked better. It's supposed to look like this.

    {{gwi:1466770}}

  • rookie_2010
    13 years ago

    Maybe the installer can use pieces of marble chair rail or pencil to trim around the niche? The mosaic inside the niche looks great to me.
    I think you should tell the installer you're concerned about the niche surround. I can see why you're concerned, I'd be nervous about the uneven grout lines. In your inspiration niche picture, it looks like all the tiles butt up to the niche evenly and tight. Chat with him before he grouts! Again, best of luck with this, please post updates!
    BTW, is that carrara or calacatta?

  • gbsim1
    13 years ago

    I think that Bill or someone else can weigh in on the spacing.... I know it does magnify any discrepancy pregrout and the few tile jobs I've seen always look better after grout.

    BUT is that just sheetrock or cement board without any kind of waterproofing directly behind the tile in the area of the faucets? What is behind the tile?

  • MongoCT
    13 years ago

    Oh lordy.

    The niches are a disaster. My opinion, based upon how I would have laid them out. I find it inconceivable that they would have been shifted to avoid the notches on one side and and slivers on the other. The sloppiness of the liners is...sloppy.

    Either make the layout fit the dimensions of the materials, or make the materials fit the layout. These niches have neither.

    I'm not thrilled with the setting of the 2" squares in the backs of the niches. I just don't like that the mesh sheet was popped on the back wall and then the liners were set in front, obscuring the edges of the perimeter two-inchers. With a little more thought something could have been done so they don't look so awkward...though that is totally my opinion.

    Overall the field tiles look okay.

    Are the corners butted tight together? I'd prefer a gap.

    The edge of the wall, the eighth photo...I just don't get the inability of someone to carry a straight vertical line with a consistent gap for grout between the field and the bullnose. It's not horrific, but just a bit messy.

    So overall, I think the niches are just sloppy. Every component of the niches could stand to be improved.

    Mongo

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks, Mongo. I don't like the setting of the mosaic either. It just looked awkward. Should it have gone in second instead of first?

    Here is the spacing at the corners.

    The odd cuts around the niches really bother me, but I'm not sure what to have him fix without the whole wall having to come down to make the adjustment. It looks like he started the tile between the niches, but maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Rookie- Sadly, the marble is just from HD, nothing too fancy since we aren't staying forever. THey had it labeled "grecian." As for my next house, I'll be begging for what I really want. ;)

    Gbsim- Yes, that is the board you see around the faucet. Should something else be in that area? Does it need to be everywhere or just there? (now I'm really going to panic)

  • wi-sailorgirl
    13 years ago

    Something is definitely off with those niches. On the one on the left, it lines up to the width of two field tiles on top, but on the bottom it does not. That makes no sense. And the one on the right just looks like it is 1/8th of a tile too close to the other one. If it had been lined up with one full field tile between the niches, then it two could have been the width of two field tiles.

    I don't know how you fix it without redoing the whole wall but I'm not sure I could live with it either. But you've said this isn't the "forever" house, so maybe it's liveable for awhile.

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Good morning!

    I just talked to my Tile Guy. He is going to grout the one on the left and let me decide if I am OK or want it changed. If I do, we'll change both.

    Apparently, the reason why the amount cut into the tile changes as you move up the niche is because our wall's beam isn't straight. Our house was built in 1940; nothing is straight. (The uneven floor started the tile project.) As for the large gap on the left, he thought adding a sliver of tile would look worse than grouting it. I'm not sure what I think.

    I feel like I want to reset the marble slabs though, so the top one is set like the bottom, and the vertical pieces fit snugly between. Unable to sleep last night, I started wondering what it would look like if we tried taking the squares off the mesh and setting them closer together to help diminish the huge overlap of the slabs at the edges. I'll take a look at the grout first, though.

    Perhaps a pencil edge around the whole thing would correct the visual issue for me? I think I'll run to HD while he finishes up the tiling and pick up some reference materials. DH can hold down the fort for a few minutes.

  • daisychain01
    13 years ago

    Stop!! do not let him leave it as is. My idiot tile guy did an even worse job than yours and left those little sliver of tiles around the niches rather than having full tiles butt up to the sides of the niches. Every single one of them has cracked off of the main tile. Make him do it right or get someone in who can do it right. I love my new bathroom, but every time I look at the tile, it makes me want to cry.

  • wi-sailorgirl
    13 years ago

    My house is older than yours so I know all about walls that are less than plumb, but the tile work I've had done has always started with leveling things out so that this doesn't happen.

    Good luck with the grouting today.

  • MongoCT
    13 years ago

    "Apparently, the reason why the amount cut into the tile changes as you move up the niche is because our wall's beam isn't straight."

    Exactly what wi-sailergirl wrote.

    See, the thing is that you don't have to follow the framing. Things can be shimmed plumb, or a little more thinset or mortar can go here, a little less there, to square things up when tiling. Or the framing could have been shaved.

    Sometimes you can tile right off of out-of-whack framing and it can look good, but it depends on the scale of the tile. The eye might not be able to easily detect one tile being 12", the one above it 11-7/8", the next 11-3/4", each cut shorter to follow an out of plumb wall. But slivers of tile going from 3/8" to 1/4" to a wide grout line, those stand out like a sore thumb due to the small scale of the tile.

    " I don't like the setting of the mosaic either. It just looked awkward."

    It's not necessarily if the mosaic goes in first or second. To me it's pattern and scale. Rectangular subways and square mosaics can compliment each other, but my eye and brain get thrown off when some of the square mosaics become rectangles due to begin partially obscured by the niche liner.

    I don't think they look horrible "as is", for me it's just a slight distraction. Again, though not a big deal. There are sort of three things to work with material, shape, and pattern. We've changed material from ceramic to marble. We've changed shape from subway to square.

    But due to the proportions of the niche and the liner obscuring the perimeter mosaic tiles, some of the square mosiacs are now rectangular or subway shaped.

    If that looks awkward then shifting pattern might help. Example, changing the mosaic in the back of the niche to a diagonal pattern. Each has pluses and minuses.

    A lot of that is simple hooey, things I personally like and don't like. Other see things differently, and rightfully so. It's not neccessarily a right or wrong, it's a preference.

    But the slivers around the niche, I really wish those had been eliminated in the planning stage. They just look sloppy.

  • gbsim1
    13 years ago

    Though the tile work is sloppy, there is perhaps a bigger problem? Could someone who can explain it better than me explain to the OP why there needs to be some waterproofing going on behind the niches (and on the walls) though.

    You can see the raw board behind the faucets.....

    Since I had a shower disaster of my own and had to tear out a shower, I'm gunshy and hate to see the same thing happen to someone else.

  • citywidetile
    13 years ago

    I think your wall niche should be cut a little less rough, however layout should have been accounted for a little better so that you don't end up with a sliver gap. White grout wouldn't look so bad, but with gray you will see it. Also the drywall cut should of been hidden behind the new tile. You can view the right way to do this at www.citywidetilellc.com

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tile Help with picts.

  • gbsim1
    13 years ago

    acckkk am I the only one not crazy here?
    .... . city wide tile says "the drywall cut should have been hidden behind the tile"

    I'm still hoping somebody who knows more than me (that doesn't take much :)... worries about the lack of a reall waterproof barrier.... not drywall!!!!

    Who cares about the sloppy tile work if it all rots out behind it?

  • MongoCT
    13 years ago

    gbsim,

    Of course that matters.

    While there's no visual evidence that a topical membrane has been used, it is possible that there is poly behind the tile backer and behind the niches.

    I can't tell what type of tile backer was used. Denshield, which would be okay? Something else? I certainly can't tell.

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Here is what the wall looked like yesterday. I'm not sure if you can tell what's written on the board or not.

  • peteinsonj
    13 years ago

    where's the waterproofing?

    there doesn't appear to be any poly BEHIND the hardibacker. and in the picture of the shower valve -- there doesn't appear to be Redguard (or other paint on waterproofing) or Kerdi OVER the backerboard.

    sorry to say this young-gardner -- but if that's the case - this is a tear out and needs to be redone completely.

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    There is nothing behind what you see here except the studs.

  • MongoCT
    13 years ago

    Oh, young gardner. I think we're going to give you a few gray hairs.

    Hardiebacker itself is a fine backer board in wet areas. Contrary to what a lot of people think, it's not waterproof. It's resistant to water damage, but not waterproof. Just like a sponge. A sponge can get wet, then dry out, and there's no damage to the sponge. But water can pass through a sponge, and it can pass through hardiebacker as well.

    For waterproofing, there should have been 6-mil polyethylene sheeting behind the hardie, between it and the studs. Or after the hardie was hung and the seams mesh taped and thinsetted, the entire surface should have been coated with a liquid topical waterproofing membrane like HydroBan or RedGard.

    FWIW, tile and grout will shed water, but grout is not waterproof. Even when sealed. Even some tiles are not waterproof.

    The fact that you appear to have no waterproofing aside...a few comments regarding the installation of the hardiebacker itself:

    1) All edges of the sheets of hardiebacker should have solid blocking (wood) behind them. In your installation, the vertical edges of the sheets fall on studs. But the horizontal edges should have blocking behind them.

    2) Fastening: The hardie should be fastened every 8". Though it's not a killer, your fastening schedule is a bit erratic.

    3) Your tiler might have done this, but the seams between one sheet of hardie and another should be thinsetted and taped with alkalai-resistant mesh tape. Similar to taping drywall, but with mesh tape instead of paper and thinset instead of drywall mud. This might have been done when the tiles were set.

    You could let this job proceed "as is" and not have a problem for 20 years. Or you could get unseen leaks and water damage within a 20 days. It's an unknown.

    "I've always done it this way and have never had a problem" is not a valid reply from the installer.

    If your tiler is collecting money for doing this work, at a minimum he should be building to code.

    Best, Mongo

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Ohhh no. I didn't see any mesh tape go up, but I was trying to stay out of the way and only pop in now and then. I will ask my husband. All I see on the supply list the Bath Rep and HD made is the backer. I will call them and double check. Then, it looks like I will need to call the general contractor who supplied the worker, though I can already hear, "Why didn't you request it?" from the other end of the line. I think I can actually feel the gray hairs, Mongo.

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Location of wood blockers (I don't have any pics from when the niches were built out, so I don't know if there was a horizontal board added partway or all the way across. The lack of screws makes me say it's not all the way across.)

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Where we were when he left today. (I couldn't walk on the floor, so the pictures of the tub with drying grout are poor.) Still not sold on the niches, though clearly that is now the LEAST of my worries. I was sick and carrying a fever today. When I woke up from a short nap, this is what we had. My husband ran the show today.

    Oh, and it looks like the bottom is grouted. I thought that the bottom was to be caulked?

  • bill_vincent
    13 years ago

    The bottom IS to be caulked. That means scraping the grout OUT of the joint, not caulking OVER it.

    Then, it looks like I will need to call the general contractor who supplied the worker, though I can already hear, "Why didn't you request it?" from the other end of the line.

    Why should you need to request something that's mandatory, both by any wallboard manufacturer, and by the TCNA? Should you also demand they use thinset and grout, too? Maybe the tile's not necessary either? here's a thought-- maybe THAT INSTALLER'S not necessary, and maybe, being the GC hired him, he foots the bill for taking this down and doing it right? Were atleast the niches waterproofed?

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    No, Bill, I don't believe they were. I never saw anything on site.

  • MongoCT
    13 years ago

    Young gardener,

    I will say I like the floor. Though I would have worked a bit harder to not have a tapered cut in the first course of tile by the door threshold.

    I would have considered keeping the tile pattern even across the door opening and using a tapered marble threshold/saddle at the door to fudge the factor that needed fudging.

    But it's a pretty pattern, it looks nice.

    I hate to ask, but where does the toilet go?

  • young-gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks, Mongo.

    Just before the wall with the window, you see a dark blotchy space between the tiles? That is where the hole is for the toilet. The tiles are to be cut around the hole tomorrow, along with the holes for the sink. The floor doesn't bother me too much, except that there are places where I can tell two sheets meet. The space is just a bit too wide compared to the other lines in a couple areas. I don't like that, but maybe it will be less obvious once grouted. Too bad it won't be under the vanity!

    The room had a very tall marble threshold, which we saved during demo. It's being cut down in height and will go between the hall and room. I'm trying to keep as many original things as possible. It turns out, though, that at this point I'm also getting something else original: problems. Hmm.

  • wi-sailorgirl
    13 years ago

    If it's any consolation, I really do love your floor. Very nice looking!

  • shymanfl
    6 years ago

    Wow, that looks like crap. I am a diy and I would be ashamed to have done such a butcher job.