I haven't used it, but I'm wondering about where you got the idea about using grout instead of thinset? Do you mean to *mount* them? And why couldn't you tint thinset?

They look yummy, btw. I'd love to see an installation with colored mortar to see what they look like.

A prefessional tile setter said it can be done. I also called Laticrete and they said yes. You just add something to the grout that adds flexibility. You can also grout it with the same material at the same time. I basically want to use it clear, but might use a pale beige to adhere to warm it a bit, or maybe just a pale beige grout with it and white thinset.

I don't think you can tint thinset.

I haven't used it, but I'm wondering about where you got the idea about using grout instead of thinset? Do you mean to *mount* them? And why couldn't you tint thinset?

It's an old trick that even alot of tilesetters don't know about. The original Laticrete latex-- their 4237-- was originally made to be mixed with a half and half mix of portland cement and silica sand to make thinset. Guess what unmodified grout is!! I've done this several times as an apprentice when my father sent me to do repair work. This way, all I had to do was put a little too much thinset down, press in the tiles, wipe off, and the tile was set and grouted. it wasn't quite that easy (the latex made the grout smear), but for the use described above, this would work perfectly as a tinted thinset!

You know, this is a really interesting concept!! This could be a whole new way of decorating, using clear glass, and letting the mortar give the installation the color!! Pretty innovative!!

Adding color to glass with tinted thinset in a 1-step application has been around for quite a few years.

If it's a large multi-batch job, just be careful in keeping the color uniform from one batch to another. There is a somewhat simple way to do that, an old-timer was pretty devastated when I told him my method.

I use the same pigments and the same ratio guidelines that I use when coloring concrete countertops.

The 1-step application sounds easy, but there is a bit of a learning curve.

Mongo

We used the Oceanside Clear in our bath and part of our shower. It was definitely one of our splurges. It surrounds our tub, is on he wall behind the vanities, and is on the wall above the tub...where my lcd flat-sceen will go.
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Tinted *thinset* I understand, and I've seen it used (haven't done it yet), using thinset as grout in a one-step "push" method (that's what mosaicists call it) I've seen and done, but using *grout* *instead* of thinset is what I'm concerned about...as long as the grout's got latex in it, I guess it will be o.k.

If you like this, Bill, you should look into what mosaicists already do with tempered glass. They use the tiny glass shards, either applied one by one or mounted as a semi-large unit, paint the substrate underneath with solids or patterns or whatever, and then apply the clear tempered glass on top of the painted surface with a clear adhesive (e.g. Mac glue) and grout. Colored grout sometimes adds another layer of color. It's a phenomenal look.

Here is a link that might be useful: just one example

Fly-- the whole thing is to use a grout that DOESN'T have latex in it. You want an unmodified grout to mix with the Laticrete 4237. If you've ever used or seen this stuff, it's a much thicker additive than anything else on the market. If you decide to try it, you'll see what I mean. But I'd stake my reputation on this method.

Fly,

You probably understand this, but by using unmodified grout (cement, sand, pigment) and adding the 4237 (liquid latex and other additives that "turn" sand/cement into thinset), you're essentially turning colored grout into colored thinset.

Trying to do a 1-step with this can be tough, because it tends to pull, so it's tough to strike nice clean grout lines.

To do a traditional 2-step installation (hang tile Day 1, then grout Day 2):
**Day 1: Set the translucent glass tile with the recipe above; unmodified colored grout mixed with the 4237. If you get any squeeze out between the tiles, just strike the squeeze out flat with a grout float.
**Day 2: Now grout using the same unmodified colored grout but use the 1776 admix instead.

The one thing I can't promise would be protection from blotchyness, or shading, or differences in how the grout looked in a shower due to wetting, if part of your exposed "grout" was the 4237 mix and the remainder of your exposed grout the 1776 mix.

I just hate unknowns, so I'd rather do a complete 1-Day application with the 4237 being everything, or a complete 2-day application, with the 4237 being my thinset and the 1776 being my grout.

Mongo

Fly,

I like some of those mosaics, but it almost seems like cheating not using colored glass/tile!

Mongo

Right, mongo, so why not use thinset in the first place? I guess it gets to semantics after a while. What is gained by putting 4237 into plain grout vs. using latex-modified thinset with colorant in it, and doing the push method of self-grouting? Does it save $$? Or is it more expensive, since you have to buy the grout *and* the 4237 vs. buying only the modified thinset?

Bill, when I said "as long as it's got latex in it" I meant via some additive, e.g. 4237 -- I think we're talking about similar things - I was just saying "latex" instead of "latex and other additives". Basically, using completely unmodified colored grout as the adhesive would not be effective, right? As plain grout has no adhesive properties?

mongo, you mentioned that you had a way to make sure of constant color across batches...would you share, please?

And I know what you mean about cheating :) -- but to me it really is more like a "mixed media" piece than just mosaic, iykwim. Folks who do this take advantage of the transparency of the tempered glass to bring more than one surface into play. I also like the spiderweb-ish effect of colored grout in the random break lines of the tempered glass.

I do look forward to seeing a sample/test piece, blondelle :)

What about using the grout and additive just as you would thinset, and then just grouting it as usual after drying? I had wanted to use the Laticrete epoxy grout with it, as it's easier to clean.

Can colorant be added to thinset without compromising it in some way? It seems it would be hard to mix in evenly.

Flyleft,

The biggest advantage to using colored grout and adding the 4237 to turn it into colored thinset is that the colored grout is already tinted to a known and repeatable color. At least as repeatable as colored grout is from one bag/lot to another!

Using white thinset up front and tinting it on your own with pigments? You'd have to do trial and error to get to a color that works for the homeowner, then you have to be able to replicate that color should the need ever arise.

Plus, by using colored grout plus 4237 for the colored thinset, and colored grout plus 1776 for the colored grout, both the "thinset" and the "grout" will be excellent color matches right out of the bag. They can even come out of the same bag.

IF you want to do a one-step by using thinset, then sure, you can tint it. Apply to walls, back butter the sheets, then install the sheets and let the thinset squeeze out between the tiles to be your grout, too. The only warning is that for a newbie, floating/tooling thinset with a grout float can be a little tougher than floating grout with a grout float.

Add in that you'd be tooling the thinset in the grout joints before the thinset holding the sheets to the wall has fully cured, you might end up dragging the sheets out of alignment as you tool the grout joints.

It's by no means impossible, as it's done quite often. But it's worth mentioning as another "what if".

Does that clarify things or are they still muddied?

Mongo

What about using the grout and additive just as you would thinset, and then just grouting it as usual after drying? I had wanted to use the Laticrete epoxy grout with it, as it's easier to clean.

blondelle, you can certainly do that. Use XYZ colored grout and add 4237 to it and use that as your colored thinset to adhere the tiles to the wall. Then after the thinset has cured, use XYZ colored epoxy grout to grout the tiles.

You can't be promised an exact color match, as sometimes cured epoxy grout isn't an exact color match to cured portland grout, but with one being behind the glass tile and the other in the grout joint, is should work fine.

Can colorant be added to thinset without compromising it in some way? It seems it would be hard to mix in evenly.

I've never used them, but there are color-tinted liquid admixes that you can use to color white powders.

I use dry pigments, and I've always mixed dry pigments with the dry powder very, very well, then after I add any liquids.

After consulting with various tech departments years ago when I first started using pigment additives, I've always used 10% as my limit by weight. Example, no more than 5 pounds of pigment added to a 50# bag of cement. Since these bagged materials are about 50/50 sand/cement, I'd limit my pigment to 5%, or 2-1/2 lbs of pigment to a 50 pound bag of thinset. Usually you won't come even close to that.

But again for color-matching, or for getting a known color, that's why it's easiest to modify an already colored grout to turn it into thinset, then use the same colored grout as grout.

I'm afraid of proof-reading this, now even my head is spinning!

Mongo

Ah, mongo, thanks! I'm so used to cobbling things together (mixing my own colors of paint, etc. and just counting on matching them later) that *easy* consistency was beyond my imagination! Makes sense.

We used both Hakatai Ashland and Oceanside (Tessera I think) in our bathroom (link below). The pale blue (called "clear") is the Hakatai, and the blend is Oceanside. We had to use 2 different mosaics b/c Hakatai didn't have the green we wanted, and Oceanside was too expensive for the whole bath. (Actually, we used 3 manufacturers - the tiles lining the window are Crossville). We're happy with both sets of tiles.

The tinting idea is intriguing...

Here is a link that might be useful: Glass tile bathroom

pitpat - You've been living with this tile for awhile. Do you find that it's difficult to keep clean? I'm considering tiling the entire inside of a shower with it, but my husband is very concerned about maintenance. He thinks I won't want to be constantly scrubbing it (he's right), and he's worried that it'll be overrun with mildew before long. He also thinks I might get tired of it, but I think that mosaics can be timeless, and it'll be a long time before I tire of the sea glass look.

Anyone have any advice/caution on the maintenance of mosaics in a shower?

saw this thread come up again, and really took in the pics from gr8smiles (an orthodontist? :)) and need to say:

LOVELY!!!

That is one fabulous bathroom, if you see this post, gr8smiles. Wow. I love the curves and the color choices. Do you have any more finished pics? LOVE that built-in vanity/storage with the curved cantileverish supports.

Jennalarc,
I haven't really done any scrubbing. I just spray on Tilex and then wipe it off. However, I had meant to post here at some point to ask how safe Tilex is. Maybe I *should* be scrubbing regularly and just use the Tilex once in a while. It's pretty strong stuff. Any opinions?

Tilex is pretty caustic stuff, but I'm sure it works really well. I'd say to definitly make sure to get plenty of ventilation when you use it. I seldom use strong chemicals to clean the bathroom, but if I ever do I use it quickly, then turn the exhaust fan on and shut the door to get the fumes out of the house. There are all kind of suggestions for healthy "home remedies" for the shower on the internet (Borax and water, vinegar and dish detergent, etc.). Maybe you could try substituting with one of those sometimes and see how it works. Definitely healthier for you :)

Did you use the Hakatai in "Clear ice"? The sample they sent me looks sooo pale compared to your beautiful clear blue. I've been hesitant to pull the trigger and go ahead and buy the stuff b/c I'm scared it will look washed out. They have another called "Crystal Blue" which is gorgeous too, but I'm really looking for a very soothing color, like yours.

Gr8Smiles - Your bathroom is out of control beautiful. I know you used Oceanside, but did your tiles look that blue before the were set? If you held up one small tile did it still read as very blue, or was it pretty clear?

Thanks!

The Clear Ice and Crystal Blue are on sale at Hakatai for 50% off now. They have replaced them with similar tile that's recycled glass. Only $6.84 a sf. A steal for that!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hakatai Sale Tile

I just called to order the Clear Ice, and they have sold out. I am so upset, b/c I picked it almost 2 weeks ago, and my husband was so concerned about the mold and mildew, he asked me to do a little more research. I don't think he understands how much time it took me to pick it, and what a great deal it was. I'm mad at him right now...

I could go with the Crystal Blue, but it's hard to settle once you've finally made up your mind. Maybe I'll just go ahead and order the Clear Ice in Ashland-E, which is $14/s.f. That'll teach him to try and second guess me ;)

Having used both Hakatai and Oceanside I have to say that Oceanside is better. Hakatai tiles have a convex underside that traps bubbles, while Oceanside's tiles have perfectly flat undersides.