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green board vs. hardiebacker

Posted by chuckwagon (My Page) on
Mon, Jun 23, 08 at 13:02

We just had a new tub installed and the worker put green board up since we were going to tile. I have since gone to a tiling class and I was told I needed hardiebacker instead of green board. After some conversation with the instruction, he felt that the green board would be okay for this bath (only DH uses it) but in the future we should have the hardiebacker installed. Is this correct? I hate the thought of ripping out what was just put up, but on the other hand I don't want problems. Thanks! Tammy


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Remember the old oil filter commercial "Pay me now, or pay me later!" ? It fits here, too. :-) And just as in the commercial, later it'll cost alot more.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Thanks Bill. Could you go into a little detail as to the differences and why you would use the cement board instead of the green board? Also, where would you use the green board? Thanks.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

The reason for the cement board is that the greenboard will rot out. It makes for a great feast for mold and mildew. You can use greenboard ANYPLACE where there's not a shower head. If there's a showerhead over your tub, better use cement board!! Otherwise, greenboard will be fine if it's a drop in tub only.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

One of my atty friends has a class action lawsuit against the greenboard people. He says that it's impossible to be installed correctly (by mere mortals). The greenboard mfrs are fighting tooth & nail. I am very, very fuzzy on the details (actually I don't know any details), so please don't ask exactly why or flame me.


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askin

No flaming-- do you know the names of the parties named in the suit, and where it's being brought?


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one last thing

I don't know why I didn't paste this two posts ago, but here it is-- the IRC code that forbids the use of greenboard in wet areas:

IRC Greenboard Code:
The 2006 International Residential Code (IRC) states in
Section R702.4.2 that "Cement, fiber-cement or glass mat
gypsum backers in compliance with ASTM C1288, C1325
or C1178 and installed in accordance with manufacturers’
recommendations shall be used as backers for wall tile in
tub and shower areas and wall panels in shower areas."

The 2006 IRC also states in Section R702.3.8.1 that
"Water-resistant gypsum backing board [Greenboard] shall
not be used where there will be direct exposure to water."


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Bill,

Thanks so much for your help. I've got another question, I was just reading a how to tile book and it mentioned that you can install hardibacker to the greenboard using the thinset and then screwing in with "rock-on" screws. Correct? Thanks again.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

It's not really adviseable. Hardi is not waterproof, which means water can still get at the greenboard, and then when it again rots out, the hardi will be sitting a 1/2" off the studs. guess what's going to happen to the tile? Let me guess-- Tiling 1-2-3?


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Ok..now at lowes we saw "yellow" board...that the Lowes people said to use..not sure exactly what it is...is this the "green" board or is this the better stuff??? It's yellow on one side....

Thanks...


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Never seen "yellowboard". One thing I know for sure-- it is NOT CBU (cementitious backer units), AKA cement board.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

I've called to make arrangements to have the greenboard replaced. With the layout of the tile, I had planned on going 63.5 inches above the tub. Does the hardibacker only come in 3 x 5 sheets and if so, will I run into a problem on the top 3 1/2 inches being greenboard or should I tear out to the ceiling and put hardibacker all the way up.

It sure would be nice if the big box stores knew these building codes. I went by one this afternoon and they told me the greenboard was fine if I used "mastic" for the tile set. Thankfully, Bill has been alot of help.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

You should be fine with that last 3 inches or so. The code is 6' off the FLOOR, and if you're going up 60" off the tub, add atleast another 16" (if not 18") and in either case, you're well above the 72" mark off the floor. his is actually a good thing, because this way the tile can hide where the sheetrock and CBU come together.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

I'm in the process of bathroom walls right now too, so this is great info.

My guy is putting sheetrock and CBU on the walls, there's insulation in one outside wall. Does there need to be some kind of moisture barrier under the boards? It's a bit late to ask as it's half done, but I want to get it right.

Thanks!


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

I was wondering the same thing. I've been reading about using tar paper or plastic membrane. Do I need to do this and if so does it go on top of the hardibacker or on the studs and then the hardibacker? If it goes on top of the hardibacker, do you just staple it or use thin set? Bill, I bet you are getting some good chuckles at my questions. I really appreciate your help. Tammy


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

chuckwagon..thanks for starting this thread...sounds like you, mercurygirl and I are all at the same stage of a bath remodel....this is great info..

Yes, we have some type of yellow board from lowes..says it's mold resistant..but will now purchase the CBU, at least for the walls around and above the shower area...

Thanks for all the info....


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

In the wet areas where the cement board is going up, there needs to be a continuous vapor barrier. Where it runs across an exterior wall where there may already be a vapor barrier, or paper faced insulation, just cut slits in it, so that you don't have two solid vapor barriers back to back.

Tammy-- Nah-- I don't chuckle at all. Everyone has their strengths. I'll bet there are some things you could really make ME feel dumb about if the conversation were to swing over in that direction. :-)


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Thanks Bill.

So do I put tar paper up and then the hardibacker or hardibacker and then tar paper? This is not an exterior wall so that will not be an issue. Which is better, tar paper or the membrane stuff? Thanks again.

On another matter, how hard is it to put a niche in the shower? Since we are taking the green board down anyways I was thinking of adding a niche.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

So do I put tar paper up and then the hardibacker or hardibacker and then tar paper?

tar paper first

Which is better, tar paper or the membrane stuff?

either one

On another matter, how hard is it to put a niche in the shower?

For you, or for me? (just kidding) Seriously-- It's not that tough. the hardest part is figuring where your tile coursing will fall before the wall's buttoned up, so that you can lay the niche out to fall on full tiles. Once you've got that, though (taking into account the thickness of the cement board, the waterproofing, and the tile itself), it's a simple matter to install the framing, cement board, it, and waterproof it.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Yellow board is DensArmor:


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Wendyacres - is this DensArmor a tile backer? I looked at their website and saw that they did have tile backer but it spoke of it being blue.

Bill - My DH and I are thinking we might replace the green board ourselves. It seems to me that we would need to cut out just around the tub area. We would need to go halfway on a stud and then over to the corner. The greenboard was installed horizontally, can we put the cement board vertically? Would these be the steps....tear down green board, install tar paper, install cement board using "rock-on" screws, lay tile? We are getting anxious and DH is taking off work so we thought we could try. Oh yeah, we are to use fiberglass tape and use thin-set instead of joint compound? Thanks again Bill. :)


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Densarmor Plus (DAP) is not designed as a tile backer for wet areas. When it is installed, however, it's also intended that the colored (yellow) surface go against the framing, not face into the room.

DenShield (DA) is a tile backer for wet areas, tub surrounds and showers, etc.

Both boards have coated glass mats as a facing material, but DS has the acrylic coating which makes it waterproof. DAP does not have the water-stopping coating.

There has been so much scrambling by gypsum manufacturers over the years to keep their foot in the tile backer business. Some of their products work, some, even after being approved as a backer, fail after years and are removed from market. They even have me confused as to what works where and what does not work where.

Your best bet for a tile backer in a wet area is a cement board. Durock and Wonderboard are two that are commonly available. Another type would be fiber-cement board, like Hardibacker.

Mongo


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

I am soooooooo glad for this thread. We have the DAP stuff sitting waiting to be installed in our bathroom. We will have just a shower stall...no tub. Looks like that is not what needs to be used? Or maybe they are going to use that for all the bathroom walls and then add something else where the shower will be? Is that something commonly done or really just overkill? Why the heck do homeowners have to double check their own GC!?! Can anybody tell me what I should TELL him to use? Thanks so much to you people who spend your time answering these questions for us stupid ones.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Mongo just gave you three of the best suggestions-- Durock, Wonderboard, or Hardibacker.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Bill,

Could you look at my posting from this morning? I had a quick question for you. Thanks, Tammy


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

I'm sorry-- I read it, and then got sidetracked by pupwhipped's post!! You're better off to use the sheets horizontally. You won't waste nearly as much material.

Would these be the steps....tear down green board, install tar paper, install cement board using "rock-on" screws, lay tile?

That's it. :-)

we are to use fiberglass tape and use thin-set instead of joint compound?

Correct.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

oooops, sorry about that Bill and Chuckwagon. Sometimes I sidetrack/hijack my own self! REALLY hate when I do it to others, though. I'm going to assume the best here in my situation...DAP is for ceiling and other walls of my small bathroom. Sure seems to be a heck of alot of it, though?? Then they will use Durock or similar for shower area. I'm pretty darn sure they will be doing that NOW! Hubby is a "Polly Anna" type. I'm going to try and be one, too, and not assume the worst in every case.

Chuckwagon, I hope you get your situation resolved quickly and to your satisfaction, and I thank you for posting this topic. Good luck to you. And, as always, thanks to Mongo and Mr. Bill.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

We put up a vapor barrier, then DensArmor Plus, then hardibacker, then tile. The guy at Lowe's said to use DAP instead of greenboard, though in his defense, he didn't tell us to use it as tile backer. And later, when I was buying tile and talking to the Lowe's tile guy, he told me that cement board got screwed straight to the studs (what I wouldn't have given to have avoided the every-six-inch screwing into the DAP that I did). So I don't blame Lowe's for anything.

Ah, the life of a DIY-er before she discovered GW. Perhaps our shower wall will dissolve someday...at this point we'll cross that bridge when/if we get to it.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

I hope not. That whole bathroom came out so beautifully!! I mean, that was really exceptional!


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Two things...

Weedy, I'm really sorry, I hope I'm not causing you worry. I just mentally matched up your partial pic above with the finished pics I remember seeing weeks ago, and just as Bill wrote, your bath is one of the nicest I've seen! I love your bathroom!

pupwhipped, please please please...don't assume that your installers are not going to use the DAP in the wet area. If there was cement board on site, then that's a valid assumption. But with no CB on site and a large stack of DAP?

Go on the offensive. Talk to your builder now, and also write a large sign and hang it on the wall that DAP will NOT be used in the wet area as it does not meet building code. Despite them "always doing it this way and never having a call back", they will not use DAP in your shower. And do make sure that they install either 6-mil poly or lapped tar paper between the cement board and the wall framing (studs).

Mongo


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Thanks Mongo. I'm on it like white on rice. I'm a bit of a control freak (has anyone noticed?) and I won't stop now. My GC is used to it...or rather my hubby is used to me confronting him about problems and then having him confront the GC. HA! Funny, my GC has suggested that I use some kind of marble stuff on the floor of the shower as he said that will never have a leak. I really want tile. Guess he is somewhat concerned with preventing leakage problems, anyway.

I will stay with it. And don't worry, nothing gets done in this remodel if Momma ain't there. Control Freak Momma, that is. Hmmmmm, maybe that's why this whole remodel is taking for"freakin"ever. Thanks again to you and all.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Tell him to get "Kerdi-ized"!! He'll never see another leak again!!


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Bill & Mongo: Don't fret about making me fret. I'm not losing sleep over it or anything, as I'm busy wainscoting the dining room. I realize that not every imperfectly-constructed shower ends up with internal water damage, and we may never have a problem. If we do down the road, well, we'll deal with it. And earlier threads had cued me to the fact that we didn't follow protocol on everything, so this isn't a new discovery.

I would much rather you guys be honest so we can all learn from ours and others' mistakes than try to tread lightly to avoid distressing us. Thanks. :-)


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

I'm compelled to write a little "Fact Sheet" about shower construction and hand it out to the managers at the local home centers so they can distribute it to their employees.

It brings me back to a time a few years ago when I overheard a Home Depot employee telling a customer that he can wire a breaker in his sub panel with 12ga lamp zip cord.

Oy!

Mongo


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Thanks very much folks. I thought this "little bathroom fixup" was going to be a piece of cake...silly me!


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

mercurygirl-- There's an old saying-- "Anything worth anything isn't easy!"


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Ok, the green board is down. We are getting ready to put the 6 mil poly to the studs now. We had a quick question, do you leave a space at the bottom of the hardibacker or does it sit on the tub? There is a 7/8 inch flange around the tub. Do you put it above that or down to the tub? Thanks.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Let it rest on top of the flange.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

If you rest it on top of the flange, what happens with the 7/8 inch under the hardibacker? Do you tile down to the tub (spacer between tile and tub)?

Thanks for quick answer.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

If the tiles are large enough, you can let them hang over the 7/8th" void. Hold the bottom course of tiles off the tub and caulk the gap between tile and tub.

If the tiles are not large enough, you can fill that 7/8th" gap (cover the flange) with thinset, then tile over the CB and the thinset fill. Still hold the tiles off the tub and then caulk the gap between the tiles and the tub.

Mongo

Mongo


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Thanks Mongo.

??? - how long do you have to wait after you use the thinset over the tape on the joints? Is there drying time before you can begin tiling? Thanks again.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

"...how long do you have to wait after you use the thinset over the tape on the joints?"

That depends.

You could do the mesh tape and thinset the joints as you tile. The problem is that as you notch thinset over the cement board, you might catch and lift the mesh tape.

The easier way would be to hang the cement board, then mesh and thinset the joints. Let it cure overnight, then the next day come back and tile the walls. This second method paces the job a bit more and give you a chance to admire your handywork step-by-step.

When you thinset the joint, remember, this isn't drywall. You don't want a noticeable hump across the joint. You want to keep the joint in plane with the face of the cement board. Thinset is not Easysand joint compound, in that if you end up with a build-up, you don't sand it down. You curse!

Mongo


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Your best bet is to use the self sticking mesh tape, and then when you spread your thinset to set the tiles, you'll be killing two birds with one stone.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Problem.....we have installed the hardibacker and we are running into a slight problem. The 1/2 cement board is actually 3/8 in and the 1/2 green board is measuring more like 3/4. Can we compensate for this when we us the thinset and tape? Is this going to cause major headaches?
Thanks guys!


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Hi Bill,

One more. My contractor neighbor told me that a vapor barrier is only needed on exterior walls as there is no temperature difference on the interior walls. True?

Thanks!


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Chuck-- See if you can put a layer of 1/4" over the 1/2". Start out by buying a single sheet, and seeing if it'll work. If it does, then get the rest of what you need. If it's still not enough, you can always feather in the rest with some thinset.

mercurygirl-- Tell him he might want to check a copy of the TCNA Handbook. He'll find that the entire enclosure must have a vapor barrier behind it. If he doesn't know what the TCNA Handbook is, you may want to find someone else to do your tile.


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One more

Thanks again. The neighbor isn't doing the tile.
Why do you have to cut slits in the barrier where it covers insulation? How many?


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

You ahve to cut slits in any existing vapor barrier because with back to back vapor barriers you'll end up causing condensation between the two-- what's called a moisture sandwich-- which will do more to PROMOTE mold and mildew than curtail it. As for number of slits, I've never really counted I guess one slit every 4-6 inches would do.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

More questions for you all. We've received several bids for having our master shower retiled - each bid has included in it hardybacker board. I had a guy give me an estimate on doing cultured marble and his bid says sheet rock. Shouldit also be hardybacker?

I'm just confused about this right now. Of course the marble guy says it will never leak - well.............there aren't seams like tile but there are seams. I believe it could leak. Am I missing something here?


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Eaglemom- the solid surface panels are usually installed with silicone which doesnt adhere as well to backerboards like it will to regular ol' sheetrock.

When the panels are installed, they should be set in a fresh bead of silicone where it meets adjacent panels and the pan. This provides a better seal than just caulking after everything is assembled.

With that said, I still do a hybrid method of drywall and Kerdi-band... I run a strip down inside corners and along the top of the pan. If the silicone ever fails at the seams, the water will stop at the Kerdi-band.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Bill: sorry it took so long to get hold of my atty friend. He sued one builder in California; the case settled with the greenboard people paying a token or nominal amount. His position was that greenboard is water resistant but not waterproof, the good tile guys know that, and the IBC (UBC?) was changed in 2006 because of those problems. He says he has boxes of private doc's from US Gypsum and the like. He likes to file class action cases all over the country and did his best to hint that if anyone wants to be a class representative in another state, he will travel. As an atty myself I must note that I'm not soliciting anything. I don't do class action lawsuits and I don't practice outside of California. I just want to fix up a powder bathroom with granite left over from my kitchen :)


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

IRC

(7 posts down, up above)

The problem is that as soon as the green sheet on the outside of the wallboard is breached (as in cut, or screwed thru) it's no longer water resistant.

I have the very same problem with Denshield.


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Greenboard Needed in Non Shower Area?

Can someone please explain if we need a vapor barrior over Durock or Wonderboard or Hardibacker in a shower area? Also, is greenboard needed on walls of a bathroom that are not directly exposed to water? in other words, the non-shower areas? Currently, all the walls of the bathroom (the ones where water never gets) are covered with Pepto Bismol pink tile that is coming down so do i replace these with greenboard or just regular drywall? the greenboard evidently comes in different sized sheet than the regular drywall so we have a small area that is not going to be covered unless we just do baseboard at bottom over this space or unless we just use regular drywall. Is greenboard still recommended over regular drywall in the nonshower areas? Even though they don get wet, I'd imagine there is some condensation or whatever since it is a bathroom. Many thanks for your replies.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Vapor barrier needs to go BEHIND the cement board, either 6 mil polyethlene or 15 pound tar paper.

As for the greenboard. I'm not sure if it's code or not, but I DO know that any bathrooms I've ever been in (and that's a considerable number) have always been greenboard throughout, with the exception of the shower area.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

iam replacing my old tub with a new one. my problem is the new tub is a half inche smaller so i need to build up behind the hardibacker a half inche. what should i use?any help whould be usefull.
thanks


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

You can nail or screw strips of 1/2" plywood to the studs before you install the Hardi board.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=4684


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Or you can use Denshield, as jdplumb has suggested. You'd still need to use the strips of plywood, though, to builkd it out.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Gosh, I wish that I had read (and understood!) this post before the house (a new build) was finished.

I just posted re water on the tub deck ending up on our bedroom floor as well as down thru a kitchen pot light.

Off the phone with the builder - there is no waterproofing around the tub (plywood deck, thinset, tile), and the tiled shower in the kids' bathroom has green board behind it. This is up to code in my neck of the woods. A pain in the neck, though, for us to redo (as much as I wanted an excuse to use my new wet saw). A pain and expensive.

Now I'm wondering what's under the floor tile...


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Greenboard has been prohibited as a tile backer in wet areas by IRC code since Jan of '06.

It was prohibited by builders with a conscience long before then.

Mongo


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Miles ahead, I guess, of our code (I'm in Ontario, Canada). Crumb for me.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

i have read that hardiebacker is better then greenboard to lay tile on tub/shower a friend had is done they use both first the hardibacker then greenboard over it then they lay tile is that a good idea to use both and if you use both which goes first or it's it better just use the hardiebacker and to lay the tile you lay on the wetside or and the other side im new at this have never remodel my bathroom before


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

No greenboard in a shower, period. Not by itself, not over durock, not UNDER durock. It does not get used. Period End of story.

IRC Greenboard Code:
The 2006 International Residential Code (IRC) states in
Section R702.4.2 that "Cement, fiber-cement or glass mat
gypsum backers in compliance with ASTM C1288, C1325
or C1178 and installed in accordance with manufacturers’
recommendations shall be used as backers for wall tile in
tub and shower areas and wall panels in shower areas."

The 2006 IRC also states in Section R702.3.8.1 that
"Water-resistant gypsum backing board [Greenboard] shall
not be used where there will be direct exposure to water."

Not much room for ambiguity there.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Since were bringing this thread up again, and it is all great info. I just want to clarify please... Bill you mentioned showers on exterior walls that have insulation installed to make slits in the paper so it does not make a vapor sandwich. I understand this, in fact mine is all ripped up from the demo and I was going to replace it cause the paper is torn but now I figure,,, one less job I have to do.

Now I still have to install something on top of my studs before the durock right? How is this done and is it done floor to ceiling? I am guessing tarpaper is roof felt? I am thinking I will go with the roof felt instead of the polly because I have seen plastic just deteriorate with age and think I will avoid that pit fall.(please correct me if I am wrong and generalizing) What pound roof felt should I use and how wide does it come? I am familiar with ones that are 3 ft wide. How do you handle the gaps or do you lay it like roofing starting at the bottom and working your way up like shingles? Meaning from right to left around the entire shower on bottom and then move up on the wall and do the same but have the next one over lap the bottom and do this till you get to the top. If this is the way it goes, how do you attach it and 2nd how much do you over lap? When you get to windows how do you handle the joints there? Does this get done before or after the floor prep? Now I am thinking the shower wall stuff has to fall overtop the shower pan stuff right? Thank you in advance.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Now I still have to install something on top of my studs before the durock right? How is this done and is it done floor to ceiling? I am guessing tarpaper is roof felt?

Yes, using a staplegun, yes, and yes. :-)

What pound roof felt should I use and how wide does it come?

15 pound, and 39".

or do you lay it like roofing starting at the bottom and working your way up like shingles?

Yup. :-)

If this is the way it goes, how do you attach it and 2nd how much do you over lap?

I answered the first part already, and as for the overlap, an inch or two is sufficient.

When you get to windows how do you handle the joints there?

You simply cut out the area taken up by the window. Keep in mind-- this isn't meant to be a waterproofing-- only a vapor barrier. This is one of the reasons why you see Mongo and myself touting the Kerdi so much. It IS a waterproofing.

Does this get done before or after the floor prep?

It's the next step after situating the pan liner, and yes, it does get tucked into the liner.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

First! thanks Bill you don't know how much you are helping me right now. This DIY do together project is now my project so I thank you sooo much.

It's the next step after situating the pan liner, and yes, it does get tucked into the liner.

Sorry I want to be clear on tucked "into" do you mean behind the liner for the floor?

I will definitely be doing Kerdi!

Sorry Bill just want to do it right and I am sorry to say there are probably a flood of Q's on the way. But if flooring comes before this I will be looking over all the notes on that. I am working on getting the roughs in situated now. Thought I could do them myself but I think I have to get some help in here for that. I have shark bite connectors and they seem pretty simple but when I purchased the reducers that nipple end of it is too short to use the shark bite so I am stuck. I will post over in plumbing and see if someone can give me pointers for that.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Not a problem. It's a good thing you told me you're doing Kerdi. Scratch the vapor barrier. With the Kerdi, it's not needed. Good thing, too, because with Kerdi, the Kerdi (which is surface applied) IS the liner.


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Ok, and that gets put over top the durock which gets installed right over the studs, which is over the torn up insulation that I don't have to replace. Did I get it?


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Correct.


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post script

Now, see? That didn't hurt a bit. :-)


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

Thanks Bill!


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RE: green board vs. hardiebacker

The latest information on Green Boards and Hardi-boards have changed dramatically in the last few years. (HardiBoard has many lawsuits against them for claims of waterproof but does not perform.)

Please check out www.honuboard.com with www.magnumbp.com for installation guidelines. Most salespeople in the hardware stores are not educated on the new products and don't want to look like they don't know. MGO boards are the New-but-old product that has been used in Europe and Asia, whereas North America is kept in a bubble from it all.
Educate the consumer, from the grassroots level and we can change the requirements of what we WANT in the world. Something sustainable and non-toxic for our environment in homes and our health. Saving our health and pocketbooks in the long run.

Here is a link that might be useful: HONUboard Green Construction Material


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