One of the reason my GC gave is that caulk is not waterproof.

But neither is grout.

well, perhaps I misunderstood his point there. But still...

I remember Mongo saying that the caulk is really only necessary in today's framed showers. If you have the older ones that are made of thick concrete walls, not so much because they don't move. I think I got that right.

Perhaps your contractor built that type of really strong shower, vice a framed one and that's why?

Hopefully, the experts will chime in soon.

I have cement covered walls over greenboard with hot mop and cement underneath shower pan. From what I've read since posting, his opinion may contradict standards, but it is not altogether uncommon. I think he feels caulk looks bad quicker than grout does. Not sure, though. waiting for his call back.

I'm dealing with this right now myself...grout is easier to scrape off later...if he caulks and then it settles, you'll have a mess....let him do it his way, and when it looks like crap in 6 months, scrape it, and lay down a bead of like color caulk.

One of the reason my GC gave is that caulk is not waterproof.

Actually, it is. But that's not the reason it's there. It's there to act as a movement joint. Whereas grout will crack, the caulking won't.

boymom-- Try this tact with your installer. Ask him if he'd be willling to sign a 5 year guarantee that whenever that joint cracks, he'll come out and redo it free of charge. If he's not willing to do that (which if he has a single operating brain cell in his head, he won't) then tell him you want it caulked, end of story. Again, as I told someone else yesterday, simply tell him if he won't do it the it's supposed to be done, you'll find someone who will.

I remember Mongo saying that the caulk is really only necessary in today's framed showers. If you have the older ones that are made of thick concrete walls, not so much because they don't move. I think I got that right.

Ivette-- you're close. The reason the mudset showers don't normally need to be caulked in the corners is because it's all wire reinforced, and the extruded diamond mesh wire lath that's used will normally wrap around the corners, so there's no way for the two sides of the corners to move independently, and therefore no cracking will occur if it's constructed properly.

I have cement covered walls over greenboard with hot mop and cement underneath shower pan.

I'll bet you're in California! :-) (It's just about the only part of the country that constructs showers like that)

As for your shower, it IS a mudjob, but not a traditional one. Many west coast contractors will use this method of floating over greenboard, but the problem is the corners still are not reinforced, which means those corners should be caulked.

Yes, California, as I said. Well, he said if it looks like crap in six months, he will gladly come back and redo it any way I want. Or a year. Or two years. He has a thick Brazilian accent, but I think he said he has done just caulk in the past, and that it looks worse than his way. Which apparently involves a shallow layer of grout, let it dry, then caulk. He said something about caulking alone being a constant maintenance issue anyway. And pointed out the many grouted areas in my home that have not cracked.

Sigh.

A designer friend of mine who flips homes has used him for years and swears by his work.

Wire you say? There was wire. There was definitely a layer of wire involved in my showers.

I'm so confused!

I definitely saw wire go in under the cement on my tub deck. And I know saw rolls and rolls of wire that got used somewhere. I think it included my shower. :)

If the mud is wire reinforced, then he's right. He doesn't need to caulk it.

Sorry re the Ca. thing-- I read the problem and then answered from there, rather than reading the entire post.

Which apparently involves a shallow layer of grout, let it dry, then caulk.

That would explain why it looks worse. The joint can not be grouted, first. Otherwise the caulking tends to peel away.

Bill, assuming my shower is wired reinforced, which I will find out, then there should be no cracking with grout or need to caulk over grout.

So something still isn't right.

Will have to get to the bottom.

Mine also refused to caulk before putting grout. Of course in a few weeks the caulk separated and he came back to redo it, but I have serious fears about the entire job. He came highly recommended and has worked for many kitchen design places.

Bill, mine put a thin layer of grout and a thick layer of caulk. I am now convinced that the only way to get a good job done is to learn from the experts and do it yourself.

This is why I still don't have a backsplash because I have yet to meet a tilesetter who knows the proper way to do things.

Why would people put grout and *then* caulk over it? I can understand choosing one or the other, but why both?

Had the same issue.. "I've always done it this way.. it always cracks..it's part of the job.. of course I am going to re-do it when need be". When I asked if "need be" was by my standards or his, by his timeline or mine.. surprise surprise the answer was a mumble.

I stood by my guns, used Bill and Mongo as ammo (sorry guys, but needs must!!), and I have a caulked shower, albeit I had a sulky contractor who could have done a neater job, but still and all.. do what REAL contractors spend their time here telling us over and over again. Don't back down!

"Mine also refused to caulk before putting grout."

I have been reading tile posts lately. I didn't know that the caulk goes on before the grout. I thought it was the other way around. So the corners/bottom is caulked THEN grouted?

Okay, I am just trying to get all of this straight in my head. : )

I'd imagine it's a matter of the installer's preference. Me personally, I'd rather grout first and then caulk. no matter how it's done, though, the joints to be caulked NEED to be empty. Not a thin layer of grout, not NOTHING. Empty. Nada. Devoid of grout! :-)

My stepson makes fun of me because I take great pains not to get any grout in the joints I'm going to caulk, while he'll grout everything, and then once he's done grouting an area, he'll score out the joints he's going to caulk. Like I tell him-- the only thing that counts is the final product. So long as you end up caulking an empty joint, you're good to go.

ANY "Change of Plane" needs to be caulked. End of story. If your Contractor can't find a matching, sanded caulk....time to get a new Contractor.

Actually, Laz, if it's wire reinforced mud, it's not really necessary. It IS spec'd, but not necessary.

Well, it turns out we do in fact have wire reinforced "mud". Hence our misunderstanding. However, this does not explain why some of corners have cracked on the two smaller showers he did a couple of years ago.

So he is redoing those joints while before he's done this round.

But it got me thinking... can anything really stop cracking when you live in earthquake land?

But it got me thinking... can anything really stop cracking when you live in earthquake land?

Yeah.... caulking.

Bill, have you ever been in a decent-sized earthquake?

No. The worst I've seen here in Maine is about a 3.

You're right-- in something like Northridge, there's nothing that'll work, obviously. But about the best you could use would be caulking. It'll hold longer than anything else.

No, it's not a miracle cure that'll hold the city together if the ground starts to rumbling. Nothing will. But it's about the best you'll find. If you know of better, I'd be interested.

here where we dont get earthquakes :) the standard is to use a sealant along the bottom row of tiles but if you asked two contractors in your area and they both do it the way you describe, I would say there is a reason for it. What it sound like to me is that they grout because it looks better but there is still a layer of sealant over the top in case the grout cracks etc to protect the joint or they are using sealant first and the grout goes over the top to cover the sealant? Sealant doesnt last forever anyway and if it comes off then it would just be a 5 minute job to redo it so I dont think it would be a big deal as long as there is some sealant there for protection. Just my thoughts :)