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Shower over tub - hardware components

Posted by linelle (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 20:54

I'm planning a hall bath remodel. Keeping existing walls, but all new everything. I'm trying to zero in on cost of parts (supplied by me), but I'm having a hard time understanding all the components I'll need in the shower, since it seems a lot of them are sold separately.

I will have a shower over tub. So, I need a place for the water to fill the tub and something that turns the water on and controls the temperature and diverts the water either to the shower or the tub. Duh, right?

I would prefer to go with simply a handheld shower on a bar and no fixed shower head. However, this is a guest bath and not a spa. I don't need to go overboard, so if the whole handheld sprayer gets too expensive, I'll get a fixed head.

What about trim? What's an elbow?

What individual components do I need? I really don't want to spend $1K on this part of the bathroom. $500 is more like it.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

have you read the thread that is linked below? There is a bunch of info on that thread. I will also give you another thread:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bath/msg12141114506.html

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ/Answers Bathroom Plumbing...


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

enduring, thanks so much for the link. I read through some of it, but I'll have to take it in small chunks in order to digest it. There's so much info there!

At least I learned that valve/trim is the unit that has a handle and controls on/off, temp, etc.

There's the whole bath faucet and closure thing.

I'd love to just go to a questionnaire that asks what I want and then it offers all the parts I need.

My local "plumbing supply store" is a high-end supplier, at least the stuff out on the floor is. Maybe they will help me with my more modest needs, at least figure out the parts I need.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

linelle,

If I read your post correctly, you basically want a traditional tub/shower set up but will use a handheld instead of a shower head.

For the tub/shower setup, the diverter that redirects the water from the tub spout to the shower can either be on the tub spout or the shower valve, depending upon the brand. If it is not on the valve, then you order a diverter tub spout. If the diverter is on the valve, then you order a non-diverter tub spout.

for the shower valve, you want to control both the volume and the temperature so you will have 2 controls so you will need a thermostatic shower valve.

For the handheld, depending upon the brand, you may be able to get the whole package - elbow, hose, handspray and bar. Bars can come in different lengths, so can hoses. Handsprays can come in single or multiple sprays. Or you may have to order the individual components.

You first need to decide on your shower valve and then go from there. Your various components do not have to come from the same manufacturer.

Hope that is clear as mud.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Anna, thank you! That's very helpful. Yes, all things being equal (which they rarely are), I'd like a handheld and no separate shower head. But I could live with just a shower head. It's what I have, it's all I know. But being able to control the spray and direct it anywhere is very appealing.

Why would I need a volume control? I can't imagine filling a tub or using a shower that isn't at full volume.

So, I start with a shower valve. If it has a diverter, I don't need one on the tub spout. If it doesn't, I need one on the tub spout.

Other than the finish and general styling, the components don't have to come from the same manufacturer. Wonder why I wouldn't stick with the same one?


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Ok, if you don't need separate volume and separate temp control on the shower valve, then just get a pressure balance valve where it is either off or full volume and only the temp changes. Personally that is all that I need in my shower. Now here is a scenario for getting a thermostatic shower valve - you like to sit on the edge of the tub to shave your legs and just want a trickle of water instead of a huge volume to rinse out your razor. Or you use the handheld to wash your dogs and are constantly turning the water off and on and have to find the same temperature that you had it at before. Stuff like that.

The reason why you may want to mix different brands is that for example, Hansgrohe and Grohe have nicer handhelds than Moen or Delta. You may want to use a matching Delta shower valve and tub spout and get a Hansgrohe handshower/bar set. Or maybe you need a longer tub spout than what comes with the tub/shower set. You can use a longer tub spout from a different collection within the same brand or go to another brand.

Also, it may be cheaper to order a whole tub/shower set and ditch the shower head versus ordering a separate shower valve/trim and tub spout. You will just have to price it out.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Linked a quick search for what you are looking for and it is in your price range.

Yes, that thread is a brain full, for sure. I don't know if I read it all either. Best taken in chunks as you've said :)

Mongoct has recommended the Symmons brand. It is a brand that is used in institutions.

I bet if you went to the plumbing store they could help you out. They will probably do as well or better than you find online, my experience. Raehelen has found the same to be true. They will have other lines that aren't on the floor, I bet. Another good line that I have heard of is only available through the plumber, its called Wolverine. My plumber sells it. I haven't used any, but it gets very good reviews at the faucet review page on the Star Craft Construction web site, they are in Lincoln, NE. Here is there link if you haven't seen it:
http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/sources.faucets2.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: Symmons Dia Tub/Hand Shower


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Or, better yet, via enduring's link, the shower-head-only choice which is significantly under your budget.

Here is a link that might be useful: Symmons Dia Tub/Shower head


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Dreaming and enduring, thanks so much for the Symmons link. Very nice looking stuff! I also like both their 3-hole and single-lever lav faucets. If Mongoct recommends them, that's good to hear.

It's funny how much one has to come up to speed for new builds and remodels, then you're left with info you may never have to use again. I guess that's why this forum is so awesome. We can at least pass it along to the next person trying to come up to speed.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

The Symmons sets are the best bang for your buck.

As far as their residential faucets, the single handle faucets don't get good reviews - poor design.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Anna, thanks for that info.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Dreaming, thanks for your help also.

Looks like Symmons is sold at my local plumbing supply store (wholesale) whose retail store is the outwardly high-end place. I suspect they sell lots of other stuff that may not warrant showroom real estate.

I know that everyone says do not buy at HD because of inferior internal parts. But what if the part number is EXACTLY the same (e.g., the Symmons S-3504-H321-V-CYL-B)? HD is selling it for almost $100 less than Symmons' list price. If the part number is exactly the same, shouldn't they truly be the same?


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

I thought that if the numbers are EXACTLY the same then they are the same. You could call Symmons on Monday and ask them.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Good question. I would like to know also.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Trying to understand how shower/bath sets work. Looking at the photo of the Symmons handheld system, the trim thing has a temperature lever and and an on/off lever. I assume that would turn on the water for *either* the shower or the tub and the tub would need the diverter?


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

"I know that everyone says do not buy at HD because of inferior internal parts. But what if the part number is EXACTLY the same (e.g., the Symmons S-3504-H321-V-CYL-B)? HD is selling it for almost $100 less than Symmons' list price. If the part number is exactly the same, shouldn't they truly be the same?"

The others have given you good advice.

The Symmons Dia that you can get from HD is the exact same one that you'd get from any other retailer. As has been mentioned, just match the model# and you'll be fine. Retail prices are often discounted from MSRPs. So this Dia package would give you everything you need. Done. No more shopping.

If you wanted to go with the Symmons valve but with a different shower head, you can indeed mix and match your own. Example, in my own house in one of the showers I have a Symmons Temptrol valve but I combined it with a Grohe Relax Top4 handheld on a vertical bar.

If you wanted to do something like that you could buy any of the Symmons sets from this page. Look for a set that has a shower head, a valve and valve trim, and a tub spout. Probably the least expensive one would be the S-96-2 which should be around $100, but for $50 more you can get a prettier trim kit. For $180-$190, Home Depot sell the Symmons Dia with valve, trim, tub spout, and shower head. The $180 version has the diverter on the tub spout. The $190 version has the diverter on the valve.

By choosing one of those kits you can then pick any handheld unit out there. Example, the Grohe Top4 head that I used is about $275.

If you went basic, the $100 Symmons valve package with a $275 Grohe handheld would be $375 for everything.

You could get the "prettier" Symmons valve and trim for $150 plus the $275 Grohe handheld for $425 total. Or the Dia valve and trim for $190 plus the $275 Grohe for $465.

Or just the all inclusive Dia package for $415.

If you do shop separately for a handheld, make sure the handheld package includes the handheld shower head itself, the shower bar, the wall outlet, and the hose to connect the handheld to the outlet.

FWIW, when mixing and matching, "chrome" is "chrome". Be it chromed metal or chrome-coated plastic, they all match well.

Good luck!


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

mongoct, thanks so much! This is beginning to make sense, and I'm confident I can hit my desired price point without too much trouble.


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Yea!


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RE: Shower over tub - hardware components

Looks like Symmons' price jumped up over $100 in the past couple of days. Thought it seemed to good to be true.

This post was edited by linelle on Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 23:22


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