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New shower system from Laticrete

Posted by bill_vincent (billvincent@hotmail.com) on
Sat, Mar 3, 12 at 19:33

For the last year or so, I've been touting showers where Laticrete has a system using Kerdi's drains with their Hydroban waterproofing, and still giving a 25 year manufacturer's warranty, which means even if your installer leaves the trade, your shower is still covered. On April 1st, Laticrete will be making available their OWN drains-- both standard and linear-- to use with their Hydroban seamless waterproofing membrane! For those who wish to DIY their showers, they'll also have the same kind of shower trays available as you're used to seeing with the Kerdi system. The biggest differences between the two systems are 1-- as already stated, the Hydroban is completely seamless, whereas there are seams in the Kerdi system. 2- you won't get the build-up of membrane layers in the corners like you do with Kerdi, and 3- Schluter will only warranty the kerdi system for 5 years. Laticrete warranties theirs for 25.

The whole idea of surface waterproofing is so common sense and simplistic, it's a wonder no one came up with it before this, and this just takes it to a whole new level. Those of you who know me know that I won't back a product unless I know for sure it's the best you can find. And for anyone who might think otherwise, I have nothing to gain by your buying or NOT buying Laticrete's system. I don't work for Laticrete, nor do I have any OTHER kind of interest, financial or otherwise, except in passing on a premium product to those who might be interested in using it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Laticrete's new drains and shower system


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Bill, I see from the link they have a linear drain available as well. Do you know if it is as crazy-expensive as some others I've seen online? I'm interested in a curbless shower in a new construction house next year, so have some time to figure this out. Thanks for the update.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

I'm going to meet with my rep on tuesday, and that's the very first question I intended to ask him!! I just did my first curbless shower a couple of weeks ago, and MY cost on that drain was almost 600.00. That's ridiculous, and I'm hoping they brought it a little closer to earth. I mean who do these drain companies think they are.. OPEC???

That was a 48" drain:

Photobucket


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Makes me wish I had a shower to install somewhere!
I did a Kerdi shower a few years ago, and a painted on membrane would have been much easier to do for a rookie like me.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Bill, I thought I was remembering something like 600.00, but that seemed too insane , even for a nice stainless grate, which is about what it is. You must be right-- they think they have a corner on the market! Sounds like some competition is needed...

Your curbless shower links great. Did you have to do a "speed bump" to get the 2" drop in over that distance?


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Terricks-- it's a whole LOT easier. No seams to worry about!! Completely 100% seamless.

Photobucket

(the white on the walls is Laticrete's 255 thinset-- the drain is Schluter's, and part of the integral membrane was kerdi hanging off the edges, so it had to be thinsetted down, and then covered with Hydroban. That won't happen once their OWN drain is available)


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Post Script

Lori-- No. There's going to be frameless glass there with a glass door, so the water will be contained. As you can see from the second pic I posted, I waterproofed out onto the bathroom floor about 2 feet, as well as up the base, as a just in case. But I'm confident that so long as they don't use the shower until the glass is in that there won't be any problems.

I DID ask about the 2" spec. It just so happens the architect is the owner's son. He tells me he's done many homes like this and had no problems with it, and I told him the same thing as I did you just now-- so long as the glass goes in before anyone uses it, we should be good. There's actually about a 1" drop from front to back.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

I've been telling my husband about hydroban as I've been scouring this site for weeks looking for info as we remodel our master bath. Thanks for the info and, more importantly, (for me) the picture of that beautiful shower.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Interesting, and thanks for the information Bill. My question is why are the linear drains are so exorbitantly expensive? We're going to build phase 2 of our new house this spring (the master suite) and I'm looking at a steam shower for the bathroom. I'm interested in a linear drain, but certainly not at the $500+ prices I'm seeing online. What gives?


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Supply and demand. It's the newest hottest thing. It's that plain and simple. Kinda like plasma tv's-- when they first came out, I remember one customer having one that cost hoim over 12,000.00 for a 60". You can buy that now for about 6-700.00. It'll be the same with the linear drains before long. I don't think they'll come down under 100.00, but It won't surprise me if in 2-3 years, they drop down to 150-200.00. (Keep in mind a standard kerdi drain right now will still run you about 90.00)


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Well, They won't be available until April 1st, but this is one distributor. I guess that answers the cost question! :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Stonetooling .com


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Hey - half price is a start !

For the adventurous, there is a fella in Michigan selling trench drains out of plastic for $100-$200 that have flexible sizing. Markets on eBay under slot drains or something.

I've spoken with the guy but have not used his drain. It's is the cheapest alternative on the market that I know of.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Sometimes cheeaper isn't always smarter. Like I tell prospective customers when the tell me the guy down the street is lower than I am-- not a problem-- he knows what his work is worth. :-)


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

bill- I'm in TOTAL agreement with you on that. But, there is a certain crowd around here that likes to get the lowest price on everything. Being cheaper is simply a race to the bottom of the pile. Wait a year or two and someone will come along and beat that guy's price.

My personal take is that Laticrete has their drain priced properly. It certainly costs more than a traditional drain in labor and materials to produce , and they are entitled to a profit on the risk they are taking bringing it to market and warrantying it.

I was just passing it on as resource to anyone interested in an alternative. You'll note, I am not endorsing the product. I am not poo pooing it either.

The end use should be very careful and understand what they are getting themselves into when using a new or "cheaper" product, especially one that has not been rigorously tested or stood the test of time.

Some people will be willing to take on the risk for a few dollars.

The world need guinea pigs too.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

I found some info on the Laticrete linear drains on 'stonetooling' FB page (they are real good I ordered some sealer for them and got it pretty quick and at a good price) I don't know if this is a good price for linear drains or not - link below

Here is a link that might be useful: Laticrete linear drains


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

I have a 7' x 3.5' shower remodel starting soon. I've been told that with this length, I would want to either a) put two round drains spaced lengthwise, properly sloped both from a length and width perspective or b) use a linear drain mid way that would not need to be as sloped on the width(due to length of linear drain). So, from the perspective of not having to buy two drains and have the tiling labor job be as tedious, combined with the more reasonably priced laticrete pricing, wouldn't it make sense to pull the trigger on a linear drain? I appreciate your experienced insights.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

it would absolutely make sense, although I'm sort of curious as to why a 7' shower would require a second round drain.

Lynn-- that's the very same link I posted above. :-)


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Hi, Bill. I don't know about the two drains, my impression was that there would be a fairly deep pitch leading up to just one drain and that could inhibit flow down drain. 7' would not be a problem with one drain? I am still trying to decide if I should use these 9x18 porcelain tiles in a herringbone in the shower with antislip treatment...or just use a 3/4" glass mosaic I found that I really like. The mosaic is expensive but would only require a regular round drain. Of course, as I understand it, the contractor would have to spend time sloping...so maybe the linear drain still makes sense. What would you do?


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Even with a 7' shower, the slope from drain to wall would only be about 3/4" to 1"......hardly a "ski slope."


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Thanks for your input. Maybe I'll be going with that more expensive mosaic and the round drain after all....


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Nice laticrete thread bill vincent. Love your use of exclamation points too as you seem very excited!

Just some quick questions though as I'm new here:

1. Does this new laticrete drain require any ability/experience to float a shower pan? And is this something a homeowner/DIY would have?

2. Is there any difference between the liquid membranes, say aquadefense and the laticrete one?

3. Will laticrete will warranty their products if a DIY or homeowner does it?

You stated, "The whole idea of surface waterproofing is so common sense and simplistic, it's a wonder no one came up with it before this, and this just takes it to a whole new level."

You do know that liquid waterproofing has been around for a while, so I don't understand what you just said.

You said, "And for anyone who might think otherwise, I... don't work for Laticrete, nor do I have any OTHER kind of interest, financial or otherwise, except in passing on a premium product to those who might be interested in using it."

Very interesting mr. bill. So you have no attachment to anyone at laticrete? I could have sworn different, but maybe not.....


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Hey Tiler60, don't go picking on our Bill V.!!


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Not picking on your bill, but just am a bit confused as to some of the things he said, that's all.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

"So you have no attachment to anyone at laticrete? I could have sworn different, but maybe not..... "

That's not confusion. That's insinuation.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Still Lynnski said, "That's not confusion. That's insinuation. "

I said I was confused, so I guess bill can chime in and rectify my confusion.

These days, there are a lot of products out there that work and work quite well. There probably was even some waterproofing products out there prior to hydroban was invented. I know he's used them, as has many other installers. Both of us have used two of the them and speaking for myself, I've also used the two part ones.

So I guess another reason for my confusion with his thread is looking at it in hindsight, it seems little more than saying if you use this corporations products, you'll get a 25 year warranty. Sort of seems like a long way of going about saying that, exclamation points included.

So I guess if this thread is just about a warranty, would that corporation warrant their products for installer error or manufacturing defect? I'd guess the latter, so in that case, as usual, it all comes down to the competence of the person doing the instal. And if that's the case, there is a whole world of products out there.

But like I said, I may be confused.

Bill wrote, "Those of you who know me know that I won't back a product unless I know for sure it's the best you can find."
So how is hydroban 'better' than aquadefense?


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

I don't think anyone needs to compare Hydroban to Aquadefense in the context of this thread. No need to.

What Bill is touting is the combination of Hydroban used in conjunction with a Kerdi drain.

It's that combination that makes for a slick installation, in that it's warranted by Laticrete with a substantial warranty. By a company that does happen to have pretty good customer service.

AND he's tossing out a nod to Laticrete's entry into the trough drain market, with trough drains that are without a doubt competitively priced.

Is Hydroban a wonder-product? No. There are comparable products out there.

Is the Kerdi Drain a wonder product? Sort of, in that when it came out is was indeed innovative and unique.

But combining the two in a warranted installation is a step forward in shower construction. I don;t mind it being talked about.

The trough drains? Other companies make trough drains. But these Laticrete ones are well-priced.

You seem to know your materials, so I don't think you're confused by the issue at all. These all seem to be more like rhetorical questions on your part than genuine questions.

I don't understand the excitement over someone using a couple of exclamation marks in their replies to other posters. But that's just me.

Now I don't normally get involved in other folks' internet cat fights, but you did start this, and with Bill not posting for a couple of weeks I'll step in and ask the question:

What specifically do you think Bill's "attachment" is with Laticrete?


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Oh, great. I did all that work learning how to Kerdi, and now I have to learn something new?

Looks pretty good, and straightforward- it will be on my list for the next bathroom up in my in-law's house. Thanks for the intro, Bill.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

moncoct wrote, "What Bill is touting is the combination of Hydroban used in conjunction with a Kerdi drain. "

Actually I think he's touting that laticrete now has come out with their own schluter drain. Other liquid waterproofing products have been used in conjunction with the schluter drain, not to mention the plain jane low tech clamping drain for a while now.

Nothing wrong with that in my book, a new player in a sector. I think that's good. But I also do find it interesting when sometimes people say X is the best. So if they are going to publically make that claim, I guess I'd like a little more information, like why is hydroban "the best" and not aquadefense or any number of other products.

At boards like this where most are DIY types, one 'professional' can sway a lot of people if for no other reason than "Mr XYZ said so". The largest problem with most jobs isn't that the product failed, rather the installer failed. I think it's great that professionals share information with DIY types, but for a variety of reasons, most pros tend to get stuck on only one product.
A great example is shluter's membrane, more commonly known by the marketing term, "kerdi". A lot of people tout that, yet either don't know or for whatever reason, don't mention the fine line of nobel's products that IIRC, were out there long before shluter's were. So people of no information just go off what very few people say and they don't know they don't have the whole story of their options.

So why is hydroban the best and not aquadefense again? ;)

"I don't understand the excitement over someone using a couple of exclamation marks in their replies to other posters. But that's just me. "

It may just be me, but I've never seen him use exclamation marks and to have him use it at the end of what looked (to me) like a marketing thing. But I guess I've never seen him giddy.

"What specifically do you think Bill's "attachment" is with Laticrete? "

I do believe there is a family attachment, but that may just be me. And not to say that means anything in any way, shape or form, but I just thought it was interesting.

So how is kerdi better than dal/nobleseal? A lot of people seem to think so based upon what they have read on the internet, so I guess I'm just asking questions. I found this thread by accident as I was searching for something about laticrete, so I'm also here by accident. Just thought I'd toss out some additional input for the DIY people.


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RE: New shower system from Laticrete

Hydroban may not be the best. It's not a vapor barrier after all. But again, when you couple it with the Kerdi or Laticrete drain and a 25-year warranty, well, that makes it pretty darn good.

If Mapei backed an Aquadefense and Kerdi drain shower with a 25-year warranty, I bet that'd get press too.

Without a doubt I agree with you that we can get hooked on certain products. The product is good to us, so we promote it, because we promote what we know and what we use.

A big part of it for me is distribution. While a few years ago Schluter tried to clamp down on some of the internet selling of it's product, I can still get Kerdi and Ditra locally, and I can get it much easier and faster than I can get Wedi, KerdiBoard, or Nobel.

Plus if I'm doing steam showers and regular showers, I'll minimize inventory by just using Kerdi (a vapor barrier) instead of Wedi or Hydroban, for example. FWIW, I only use topical membranes.

Then there is customer service. That's always worth a couple of points in my book.

When I post about topical membranes, I'll usually list a couple of trowel on and a couple of sheet membranes, depending on what question or application I'm answering. You never know what products folk have available in their locale.

Nobel has fine membranes. But they are thicker than Kerdi, and one thing I like about Kerdi is using thinset to seal seams versus Nobel, which requires their sealant. It's just one less thing to have to have on hand. Plus I do think the Kerdi and Kerdi drain combination is better than Nobel and the regular drain.

So, to answer your question, is kerdi better than nobel? To me it is. It's thinner, and I can seal seams with thinset instead of a proprietary sealant. I value that. But both products perform fine.

So sure, there are differences in products, and we all value those differences differently.

Example, for exterior balconies, I could use Schluter's products, but instead I use Nobel's deck membrane. So different strokes for different applications.

If you want to promote Aquadefense, feel free. Mapei has a fine product line. No worries there.

And if you stick around, welcome to the forum.

Best, Mongo


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