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Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Posted by lucinda002 (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 13, 09 at 14:37

My contractor has done a great job with everything..tile, sinks, trim, wiring, paint...EXCEPT...

He says that the wood he used to install the shower pipe was too close to the wall (at least I *think* that is what he said). This caused the stop valve for the Moen Kingsley water control to stick out too far...way to far. It is supposed to lay very close to the cover so that you don't see the stop.

Is there anything that can be done about this? It looks terrible. He has already tiled so tearing out all of the tile is not an option.

Moen Kingsley Shower/Tub Trim...PROBLEM


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Tearing out tile and fixing the wall at his expense. he did wrong. He needs to make it right.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Uh, that was done incorrectly.

Typically the depth is marked on the fixture itself (plastic shield thingy), or at least in the instructions....

That should be redone!!!!!!!

Can the plumbing be accessed from behind?


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

i'm not saying he shouldn't fix it - i think a pro should. but my friend & i did a less severe but similar thing with my moen shower valve, though mine was too far in. I called moen & they were very helpful and told me how to order an adapter kit that had longer cylinders & screws so we could fit the cover & handles flush with the wall. Perhaps a shorter cylinder & screw would help in your case, if getting the prop to fix it doesn't.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

I have to agree with the others. It should be fixed. He would not want to leave you always being upset about this detail and should fix it. He may be able to fix it without damaging anything that is not covered by the plate.

You should make he sure he fixes it.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

It just never ceases to amaze me what GC's and others seem to think owners should just learn to live with - that picture isn't even close to being a maybe - that is downright wrong! Make him fix it properly - the tile is his concern not yours.

Mistakes happen and sometimes subs or GC's make a bad call and the result is unfortunate but you can live with it - that is not one you should live with.

I stop by my job site once or twice a day - today I had the incredible good fortune to stop by just as the tile sub was about to make a decision I would have lived with but would not have been happy about. I have a 6 inch band of glass tile - horizontal 2x1's around my tub. They miscalculated at the end - a pony wall - and were going to cut a 1/4 inch off the top of one row of glass tile - my beautiful something of a splurge tile. It was also the row I would gaze upon most often while in my tub. He told me they could do that or remove the marble field tile and make it a bit higher to fit the full glass tile row. He of course made it sound like it would be a hassle and they would have to redo the opposite pony wall because they were level. I said I really did not want the tile cut. I did also veto redoing the other pony wall - the 2 sides - of wainscotting - do not connect anywhere because of a full built-in vanity and linen closet. No one is going to notice a 1/4 inch difference in height. I would notice theglass tile each and every time I took a bath ;-)

I guess my point is some things don't matter, some things are disappointing but you can learn to live with them and some things are just plain wrong!


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

I agree with all the other posters: that is completely unacceptable. And it is HIS responsibility to make it right. Is this new construction or a remodel? I know how hard it can be -- especially if one has a good relationship with a contractor -- to dig in one's heels, but you really have to on this one. If HE would like to talk to Moen to determine if there is an acceptable (to you) workaround, I'd let him try ... but I don't think it's your job to do that legwork, it's his. And the solution -- if there is one -- has to be absolutely 100 percent satisfactory to you.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Might there be an easier way into the wall on the OTHER side?

Funny thing-- I was just in this very situation last week. I came in to install the tile, and it was obvious that the shower valve had been mounted way too far forward in the wall cavity. It BECAME obvious, as soon as I went to put the cement board up. I'm curious why the tile guy in THIS instance didn't realise it, unless he just didn't give a crap, figuring it's not his job-- just put up the tile, get the check, and then come back for the repair afterward to get ANOTHER check.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Bill Vincent

Hi Bill,

What did the contractor have to do after you saw the mistake at your job? Did they move the shower pipe back? There is no way to get to the back of our shower.

Where in the world would he have to start without ruining all of the tile surrounding the area to be cut out? Seems like he would have to re-plumb the entire bathtub and shower.

I have contacted Moen and sent them the same photo. I have a feeling there is no "fix" for this. I will be interested in what Moen has to say.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Hi,
I know very little about this stuff but am in the middle of a bathroom remodel and am doing alot of the work myself. I bought the Delta 17T series valves. They have a sliding collar that fits behind the handle part (that you see in this picture). It would fit in the space that you see is wrong in this picture of the Moen valve. It gives you a great deal of adjustment for different wall thicknesses. I'm wondering if Moen has a part for their valves like that?


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

I'll try to post a picture of it here. Excuse all the fingerprints on it. I put it up temporarily to make sure I don't make the same mistake:)

Here is a link that might be useful: adjustable collar for valve/wall thickness


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Spacechallenged,

That is a great idea. I hope Moen has something like that for our problem. I have contacted them and hopefully, they will have something similar to the Delta 17T series valve to at least minimize the space.

Thanks for including the photos.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake--Photos Opposite Wall from Shower

Below are photos of the bathroom shower that back up to the dressing area. The problem shower/tub valve is right opposite the newly installed marble on the dressing room vanity.
We will be having a mirror installed above the dressing room vanity with lights going through. Could the contractor go through this wall *above* where the shower/tub is on the opposite wall and make the repair?

What exactly would he be doing to "fix" this situation? I don't think he would be able to re-fit all of the plumbing without tearing out the dressing room vanity..

What a mess. I am so frustrated and disappointed.

The Tiled Shower Wall
shower wall

Wall Between Shower and Dressing Room
Photobucket

The dressing area vanity and the wall above (mirror has not been measured yet. There would be access, but only above the marble vanity top.

Photobucket



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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Ditto what everyone else has said. I am a contractor... a good contractor that is proud that our work is RIGHT in every regard. It is not unusual for us or one of our subs to pull something bone-headed like this (and it is boneheaded, for as noted, the rough-in valve set is marked for depth in the wall... Plumbing 101). What differentiates the good contractors from the schlocks, is how they respond to such a thing. Good contractors come up with a solution and remedy this embarrasment quickly. Then he goes from whining schlock to hero, right?

Cutting out and replacing a few tiles is not going to bankrupt the contractor. That is the likely solution... but really, all YOU should have to do is say "It's not right; I don't like it...fix it... whatever you have to do".

Here is a link that might be useful: AskMason: Home Design, Remodeling and Repair Advice


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Oh, for God's sake! That's ridiculous! I can't believe he even let you see that!

And he even grouted! What an idiot. He'll have to re-do it. It will be a pain, but it's certainly not impossible, and it is certainly not your problem. Was this his first shower install or something?


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re: shower/tub mistake---spacechallenged...question

Spacechallenged,

Did you buy the Delta 17T series valve separately from your shower trim? I have tried to do a search and everything comes up with the faucet and everything with it. I think it just needs a shorter cartridge and stop like the ones in your photos.

When I first saw the problem I didn't say much to the contractor. I just said, "what happened here?". Then he told me about the wood that caused the shower pipe to be too close to the wall. This contractor redid our kitchen and it is beautiful and functions perfectly.

He will be back again on Wed and I am going to address this with him. I know everyone is saying take a "kick butt" attitude, but it is so against my nature. I should have said something when I first saw it, but I was sort of in shock. Now that I have had time to think about it and have read the responses on this forum, I know I have to speak with him about it. I am dreading it.


jane


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

Jane - is that a Moentrol or a Positemp? Does the handle pull out or just turn? Are you certain that handle goes with the shower control? It could be just the angle of the photo but the handle set appears to be undersized and could - *could* be for a lav set not shower. The parts look identical except for size. Sometimes items are mis packed and or mis labeled. It's just possible this is an easy fix. Did this come from Home Depot or Lowes by any chance? Returned materials are rarely checked for accuracy.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

What did the contractor have to do after you saw the mistake at your job? Did they move the shower pipe back?

That's exactly what they did-- pulled it back a little further into the wall cavity, and restrapped it down. As for goingthru the other side of the wall, I think the hardest part of removing the vanity would be unhooking the plumbing, and seeing as how it would be in the plumber's best interest, I'm sure he'd be willing to do that in order to fix the situation. The fact that the mirror would cover the seams of any hole cut into the wall afterward only affirms that this is the way to go. your contractor my ahve to get behind the granite backsplash with a flexable putty knife to cut the silicone bond that I'm sure is there, but that's no big deal, either.

Homemasons-- nice to see another contractor in here! :-)


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

I had to similarly fix my shower valve that my buddy installed for me. I did it before I put up the cement board, because I checked any for problems while they were still easy to fix. It can really pay to do a "dry fit".
Trust, but verify!
Casey


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

lucinda, don't try to learn what has to be done.

The contractor may have said what he said, in a neutral tone of voice, hoping you would take it upon yourself to learn more and "get into it" and then possibly stymie yourself with analysis paralysis. I can see you getting yourself into a jam with all your questions.

At the end of a job, some people need a day off or two before their get their spirits up. He may have been a bit discouraged... Call him back in now and say, "OK, you've had a few days, now you know this can be redone, and I hope you get the grout to match quite well too."

HTH
-david


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

lucinda002,
Sorry, I just saw your question.
My Delta valve came that way. I know all valves are different so perhaps the Moen valve doesn't have something like that available. I don't know.
Surely the contractor will make it right.


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RE: Shower/Tub Mistake----Photo----Suggestions Please

I installed the Moen Caldwell 82494SRN trim kit (Posi-Temp trim kit) in brushed nickel and - b/c the bathtub’s valve was placed too close to the wall - the lever sticks out about 1/2 inch from the Escutcheon - exactly like the photo. I bought the Moen Bathroom Escutcheon 162BN Brushed Nickel (the extension plate) -- the list price is about $113 but you can get it on other sites for between $60 and $70 (note that the162 extension part comes in 2 other finishes which are cheaper than the brushed nickel one). It's literally just a round hollow circle w/ the same finish as the Escutcheon (and the same foam/rubber underneath that rests against the tile). I was underwhelmed and disappointed because of the price(esp. b/c the trim kit that I bought is only $100) but ... I installed it and I'll do it again for the 2nd bathroom. There's still a slight gap but it now looks part of the design b/c you can't see the stop tube.

Despite the Escutcheon's 2 1/4" length screws, they weren't long enough - in my case - to reach the screw sockets. I went to home depot and bought #8-32 x 2 1/2" stainless steel, round head machine screws (need to get stainless steel b/c it's a wet environment) - they're very cheap. They weren't perfect (the head could have been a wider diameter) but they're hidden behind the lever. Note: if you need longer, they have 3-inch #8-32 screws online (Home Depot maxes out on these at 2 1/2"). I attached a not-so-great pic of the finished product.

Another lessons learned for me: my old tub spout was a slip-on and the pipe nipple that sticks out of the wall for the tub spout to attach to is not male-threaded. Moen's tub spouts are IPS ones which means they require the pipe nipple to be male-threaded. Thinking that I had to buy a different tub spout (a slip-on one), I went to HD and one of the employees suggested that I buy the Danco Universal Tub Spout w/ diverter (the diverter is the mechanism where you divert the water to the shower head). I didn't know it when I bought it but ... ironically, this tub spout is an IPS, too (it requires a male-threaded pipe nipple) and, therefore, it had a plastic "slip on to threaded adapter" inside. I used this plastic “slip on to threaded adapter" and then used the moen's tub spout (it means I paid $20 for the universal tub spout and adapter and only used the adapter). Note that I would have preferred a metal adapter but this should be ok (and I didn't feel like looking on the web). I haven't regularly used any of this yet but if I have any issues, I'll repost.

This post was edited by metazonezone on Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 22:08


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