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Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Posted by Donchik (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 4, 14 at 17:22

Hi,

Could you help me with an overall understanding of the quality of the available brands for the faucets/shower trim selections?

(I am in the middle of new construction. I would like to avoid products made in China. I don't want anything extravagant. Faucets under $ 200-400 would be perfect). I understand that Moen is at the bottom of food chain. Right? What about Kohler, Kraus, Grohe, Delta (any others?). Where do they fall?

Thank you in advance for your help.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

A number of posts below, someone posted a response with this link which contains a lot of info on faucets, types, brands, quality, etc. Link below is for the first part. Link to the second part is at the bottom of the first page.

Here is a link that might be useful: Faucet info and reviews


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

I have been researching and planning my remodel the past year. So far this is my brief summary

For bathroom only.
moen, delta are similar - good, easy to change out the trims if you want to redecorate.
kohler - good, inconsistent technical designs, Parts are not as difficult to get as plumbers would like you to think. keep your paperwork for ordering parts because models can change.
amer std - not what it used to be - stay away.
grohe - good. Known for showers. Std for hand showers. You can always buy their shower and/or handshower and go with other faucet brands.
hansgrohe - generally on the same par as grohe.
Pegasus, glacier bay, price pfister - stay away.
jado and porcher - good - even tho owned by amer std, quality and design very nice.
cifial - good.
riobel - good
rohl - good.
california faucets - good.
strom - good.
newport brass - good
randolph morris - good.
symmons - good, avoid single handle residential lav
Chicago faucets - good
toto - research the model

if you don't want to buy Chinese, you may limit yourself. Components are made all over and assembled all over. It is the quality control that the indiv company enforces. If you buy a non mass marketed shower, it wouldn't hurt to buy an extra cartridge to have on hand. Always check reviews on indiv models. Keep your paperwork to look up model and part numbers. Of course this is if you are the type to get involved in repairs and even diy. If you don't want to deal with it, then buy the brand that your plumber likes to install and repair. Also, quality at big box stores can be different in order to meet a certain price point. Always go by manufacturer's model numbers on their websites when purchasing.

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 4:07


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Pretty much all high end brands are made in china now. As the prev poster said it is about the quality control of the company, not the whole country. Yes, dollar store products are made there, but also where do you think your iPhone or smartphone is made too? You guessed right..... China!
Welcome to modern day globalization


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Check out Luxart. Its a private label from Hajoca Corp. Minimum 51% of each faucet is made in USA. That might be the best % of USA made you can find at a decent price. When we looked almost 3 years ago, they were the only ones to have all metal tub spouts, trim etc. I'm not sure if any manufacturer still makes an all metal handshower. 2 reasons for that: the metal ones get HOT & metal is more likely to crack tile/shower floor if it falls or is dropped. I can't tell you how many times ours had hit the floor.

We ended up going with Delta (which I'd say is middle of the road to mid-high end depending on the style on quality) because they had the finish we wanted. Luxart had similar styles, but not the finish. However, I did tell DH that if the Delta ones didn't work out for any reason we'd be switching out and dealing with whatever finish options Luxart had to offer. We do have the Luxart soap dispensers (3 of them) and they are all metal (heavy) with the exception of the usual soap pump plastic tubing/etc. & 2 large individual Luxart stainless kitchen sinks and are very happy with all.

Hope this helps!

Here is a link that might be useful: Luxart Website


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Donchik-
I don't know where you get the impression that Moen is sub-par. They're as good as any other mid-range product. They also seem to have a decent warranty. I have several Moen faucets and had a problem with one after 10 years. A call to Moen got a replacement part promptly shipped to me free, even though I wasn't the original buyer of the faucet.

My main advice is to get a decent mid-price faucet: it should perform just as well and as long as really expensive faucets. In my opinion, spending lots on a faucet does not necessarily get you better performance or longer life. You are often paying for a name or a certain design. Given the range of styles available for reasonable amounts of money, I've always been able to find something that looks just as good as what is offered by the high end brands. Lastly, I avoid faucets that have plastic externals of any kinds...and you might be surprised at the presence of plastic in even expensive faucets and shower heads.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

mydreamhome,

Sorry. Someone's been kidding you.

Luxart faucets have no U.S. content whatsoever.

They are all imported 100% Chinese content faucets from Shenzhen Globe Union Industrial Corp., Ltd., the makers of Danze faucets; and Guangzhou Seagull Kitchen and Bath Products Co., Ltd.

Stick with Delta.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

To update Anna's list, American Standard no longer markets Jado and Porcher but has started a new luxury brand called DXV.

Also, Brizo is Delta's luxury line and Kallista is Kohler's luxury line.

Here is a link that might be useful: DXV


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Thanks for the update on Jado. Geez, I was ready to purchase items from their classic collection - I wonder if I should do so now. Will the cartridges be the same?

Looking at the DXV website, the models are different.

If the old Jado stuff goes on clearance, would it be worth purchasing. I really like the fact that I could build a really nice shower system for a good price. I liked the installation of their Roman faucets.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

It's impossible to follow all the corporate wheeling and dealing, splitting and merging. What I gathered is the large, world-wide group that owned American Standard split apart. Jado and Porcher were from the European branch/division. Whatever is American Standard now has decided not to import and market those two brands in the USA. That would imply they are still available in Europe. Jado was a German company originally and Porcher was French.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

I stopped by a plumbing showroom in Houston that carries American Standard and the current DXV, formerly Porcher and Jado. They told me that the DXV products are the same as Porcher and Jado, just rebranded with different model numbers. If you look at the DXV website, the collection names are different, but look to be the same as the Porcher and Jaco products. So I am going to continue on with my Jado Classic/Colonial now called Ashbee faucets for my remodel. It is a similar look to Grohe Seabury but fits within my budget. I may be able to find some of the Jado labeled items on Ebay to further control my costs.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

@Anna-in_TX,

DXV faucets may be rebranded JADO and Porcher faucts, but are more probably a new line of Chinese made faucets offered as upscale luxury faucets by American Standard Brands which sells the American Standard brand in the U.S. DXV may be getting the designs from JADO and Porcher, but probably not the actual faucets. We are still investigating DXV faucets. When we find out what's going on, we will publish a report on our faucet review website.

Here is a brief history of American Standard up to this point:

In 2007 the old American Standard Companies was put on the auction block. Its air-conditioning division became Trane, Inc. which was immediately snapped up by Ingersoll-Rand. The kitchen and bath division, along with the American Standard brand name and logo was sold to Bain Capital Partners, a private equity investment fund, now famous due to its ownership by presidential aspirant Mitt Romney.

Bain created a new corporation, American Standard America (A-S America), to own the North American assets of the kitchen and bath division. It then sold a majority interest in this new corporation to Sun Capital Partners. In 2008 Sun Capital bought Crane Plumbing, LLC, a well-known, privately owned maker of excellent, mostly commercial, bath fixtures, and Eljer Co., another well-respected American manufacturer of sanitary products. The three companies were recast as divisions of a new umbrella company, American Standard Brands.

The original American Standard Companies, Inc., after 133 years as an American plumbing icon, ceased to exist.

American Standard's U.S.-based manufacturing was closed, and manufacturing moved to Mexico and China. Only one American Standard factory still operates in the U.S., in Nevada, Missouri, where it makes some enamelware. No American Standard, DXV, Eljer or Crane faucet is manufactured or even assembled in the U.S. or Canada.

But the story does not end here.

Bain still owned the assets of the old American Standard kitchen and bath division that were located outside of North America. These assets included JADO and Porcher, American Standard's upscale European brands.

In 2009, Bain transferred these assets to Ideal Standard International, formerly American Standard's European subsidiary. The assets included the right to use the American Standard name and logo outside of North America. Bain retained ownership in Ideal Standard.

Then, in 2010, Bain split out the Asia-Pacific portion of Ideal Standard's assets and sold these, along with the right to use the American Standard brand name and logo in the Asia-Pacific region to INAX, a Japanese sanitary-wares company, which, the very next year, was bought up by JS Group, a Japanese private investment corporation. JS Group consolidated INAX with four other Japanese home-improvement products companies to form LIXIL Corp. as a wholly owned subsidiary of JS Group.

Finally, in a classic "tail wags dog" story, LIXIL Corp. bought American Standard Brands (including Crane and Eljer) from Sun Partners in June, 2013. It now owns all of the old American Standard except the European operations belonging to Bain's Ideal Standard International.

American Standard, a grand old American company for nearly a century, and a half, is now Japanese.

On October 31, 2013 American Standard Brands abruptly announced to its distributors that it would discontinue selling the Ideal Standard luxury brands JADO and Porcher, effective immediately, in favor of its own new luxury brand DXV.

American Standard will provide warranty and parts support for Jado and Porcher faucets already sold, and will continue to sell existing inventory, but will import no more JADO or Porcher faucets.

This post was edited by OldTimeCarpenter1 on Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 1:04


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Thx OldTimeCarpenter1. Jado faucets were made in China and assembled in Germany and was German quality quality for a good price - nothing compared to the rest of American Standard. But from your post, DXV can not be compared to the old Jado.

You can't go by name anymore as far as quality. American Standard in the US is now known for having quality control issues with its porcelain products - buyer personally inspect before purchasing or delivery. AS faucets are no longer a quality product. Eljer is no longer the robust product line and now quality it once was. It is crazy that even a large parent company can have smaller companies with such varying quality products.

Gerber is another company that has been affected by being sold.

As far as Jado then, I may pick up a lav faucet off of Ebay for my second bath if the price is right. But for my MB where I want a whole matching collection that will last for the next 15 to 20 years and support and parts to maintain them, I need to consider another brand.

Thank you so much.

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 8:54


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Anna_in_TX - Just curious as to why you say to avoid Newport Brass. We used them in our master bath. They feel very solid. We are considering using them for our hall bath. Either Newport or Restoration Hardware...which as I understand is partly made by Newport Brass.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Newport Brass is a Brasstech company. Brasstech is owned by Masco which also owns Peerless, Delta, Brizo and Hansgrohe.

Newport Brass faucets are assembled and finished in California from Chinese components. Brasstech also makes Restoration Hardware faucets.

The faucets are a little pricey for Chinese faucets.

The best value in faucets is still Delta, especially with Delta's new cartridge technology. Then Moen, then Kohler.

The absolute best line of faucets is probably Waterstone, although pricey, followed by KWC, Hansgrohe, California Faucets, and Brizo.

The worst value is American Standard, Eljer and Price Pfister, all hecho in Mexico from Chinese parts. These brands have been cheapened to the point where they are just not reliable any longer.

My humble opinion only.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

My internet search found the thread below where a Newport brass shower valve fractured. I will edit my post though. This appears to be an uncommon event and I generalized too much.

Thx.

Here is a link that might be useful: Newport Brass shower valve

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 11:05


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Agree that Waterstone is wonderful. I. Have it in my kitchen. But they don't make bath products unfortunately.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Thanks OldTimeCarpenter1. Any thoughts on Santec or Sigma brand?

Our two local plumbing supply stores don't carry California Faucets, which makes me curious as to why. I will have to see if I can find them somewhere to see them in person. I can say that based on what I see online I am not a fan of their logo imprint on the shower trim plate. I hate big logos (another reason why I like newport brass)

I will be honest, I don't know much about fixture components. From what I have seen all the brands have plastic parts and from what I have read almost all have at least some components made in China. All I can see and know is how it looks and feels in the showroom. Some brands definitely feel more heavy and solid where as others feel light thin and plastic. I was actually surprised how many shower heads were actually plastic and not metal.
I guess as with anything it is a balance between style, quality, and cost.

My husband eliminated about 80-90% of the brands & styles when he insisted on a high neck victorian faucet that had a thicker trunk spout. He also did not want any shower trim plates where you could see screws.

I want a stylish tub spout, so that eliminated the Delta, Moen and Kohler tub spouts which to me look like clunky builder grade Home Depot/Lowes specials. I also prefer that the shower trim plate have a built in diverter on the trim plate or a separate matching diverter.

Kohler had nothing that fit our criteria until they came out with the new Artifacts line, however it is on the pricey side for Kohler. I wouldn't describe it as a "value" line, as it is coming in about 15% more than the newport brass.

A quick look at Sigma, Santec, Graff, Calfornia, Rohl, etc....they are all priced higher than Newport Brass. Some by a lot. Are they a much higher quality in comparison?


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

FYI, I have been looking at new faucets recently and consultants at 3 different high end plumbing supply places mentioned that nothing can beat the new Delta technology.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Are we talking faucets or shower valves? I didn't know there was new faucet technology? What is different/better about the new Delta technology?


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

OldTimeCarpenter, thanks for all your good info. What do you think of the Rohl Classic? I want a pull down and it needs to have a strainer/spray that removes easily for cleaning. The plumbing supply places I have consulted tell me that only Rohl, Blanco and KWC have this feature. I looked at the Deltas and the little strainers in the middle can be removed with a tiny pry tool but I was advised that they are not designed to be removed often and I need to clean my sprayer at least monthly. We are at the end of a water line and gunk builds up.. Any suggestions?


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Sorry for the double post.

This post was edited by scpalmetto on Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 11:46


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

I'm remodeling our master bathroom and I ordered a polished chrome American Standard, two handled shower faucet only to find that some of the external components are chrome colored plastic. Very disappointing. I also ordered what seemed to be very nice Delta single faucets for our new vanity and some of the external components are chrome colored plastic. I'm not happy at all with these. I'll be at Home Depot and Lowe's tonight to see if I can find faucets that aren't made of plastic.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

Sowngrow -what I have discovered is that majority of the faucets/shower components sold at Home Depot and Lowes are a lower end line of brands made particularly for distribution at these stores and are not the same quality you would find in a plumbing showroom/supply store.

I started my research at for my first bathroom remodel (now on 2nd) at Lowes & Home Depot and then went to some local plumbing supply stores and was blown away by the quality difference. Now I everytime I walk into Lowes & Home Depot everything just looks & feels cheap to me. Just remember you get what you pay for (for the most part).

I started looking at Delta based on OldTimeCarpenter1's comments (versus the Newport Brass I had originally decided on). I liked their Cassidy line and they have it at my local plumbing store. It feels really nice (not cheap plastic) however I have read some bad reviews online about the shower valve. Numerous people have reported leaking. One customer said they were on their 3rd valve and they also stated the customer service was anything but stellar.

I was surprised to see how much plastic was on the Delta valve. It didn't look as beefy as my Newport Brass valve from my last bathroom remodel.

Long story short I have come to the conclusion that any brand you choose there is a potential for problems. At this point I am just looking at how the quality looks and feels.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

I see no one mentioned Dornbrecht, but these products made in Germany are the high end of high end. They are pricey, but they are simply the best in the world.


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

It's "a" not "e" - Dornbracht. Took a look at them during my bathroom faucet search and they have a very hefty, quality feel and the finish is jewel-like. (No idea on longevity, since I don't have that brand in my home.) The reason I didn't select them is that they have very few choices in a more traditional style (which is what I was looking for). However, if one leans towards the mod look, they are definitely worth considering. I'm going to take a look at them again when it comes time to replace my kitchen faucet.

They're the ones with the horizontal shower. Mmmm - I love that video & picture gallery........ ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Horizontal Shower

This post was edited by DreamingoftheUP on Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 9:09


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RE: Please help with faucets/ shower trims selections

I found two bathroom sink faucets from Delta that I like. I have had Delta in the kitchen for 12 years with no issues. The model #s on the Delta website are exactly the same was the ones on the Lowes website. This means they are the same in every way, right?
Monica


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