I bought the American Standard Champion 4 about 3 years ago (it's top rated in Consumer Reports). It has NEVER clogged. A few months ago I bought a second one for another bathroom. Heavily used by guests and kids. It would be my first choice again.

When you all say Toto Drake, are you not talking about the Drake II? Not sure what the difference is, but I assume Drake II is better than just the Drake. We are in the process of picking out toilets (yea, fun). I was all set on Toto, but now am reconsidering.

Did you call Toto? I would place a call to them see what they have to say.

I bought three Toto Supreme 1.6 toilets five years ago and they are great, no clogging problems at all. I use Costco TP, if that helps!

The Canadian Waste and Wastewater Association is the definitive independent toilet testing group. Their ratings show that price isn't the determinant of flushing efficiency. Some of the TOTO models are barely mid-pack; others are at the top.

Clients on a recent build chose all TOTO, all the same. Sure made my job easy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Toilet Testing

worthy writes: "The Canadian Waste and Wastewater Association is the definitive independent toilet testing group. Their ratings show that price isn't the determinant of flushing efficiency. Some of the TOTO models are barely mid-pack; others are at the top."

The MAP test (originally developed in California; cited in Canada) -- like any other one-dimensional test -- has severe deficiencies. Higher MAP numbers do not, repeat NOT -- mean "better performance." Specifically, in a real life home toilet, a system that will flush 1000 gm of standard plastic-film wrapped soybean paste may be inferior -- from a user's standpoint -- to a system that flushes "only" 500 gm of standard plastic-film wrapped soybean paste.

The standard film-contained tubes of soybean paste may be -- probably are -- the best simulation of TYPICAL human waste yet developed. But human waste stubbornly refuses to be typified. Human waste products do not adhere to standard sizes; they do not conform to standard densities or consistencies. And if a "single use" of a toilet generates 400 gm of waste, a MAP 500 gm rated toilet will flush the waste every bit as well as a MAP 1,000 gm rated toilet.

Moreover, many homeowners want a toilet that will not leave streaks on the bowl; that is, a flushing system that not only sends the big stuff down the drain but also has enough water left during the flush cycle but after the main event to swish off the remainder of the waste from the inside of the bowl. The MAP test does not test that.

In short, the MAP test for toilets, welcome as it is as an objective measure of one aspect of a toilet's flushing performance, is a little like rating an automobile according to how fast it can complete a lap at Talladega: interesting, but not definitive.

The higher end Toto toilets are nice but the pitfall is that you can only use Toto parts for repair... Any clogging issues requires a definate Gerber Avalanche!!! Best toilet around town

Todd Stull
Enola, PA

Moreover, many homeowners want a toilet that will not leave streaks on the bowl

That's clearly a problem with some toilets, so that's why I skim through the reviews here and elsewhere.

But I write off any toilet that doesn't meet the 1,000 gram per flush figure. Not that even that capacity would handle the sorts of things that my plumber friend used to find --and regale me with till I blanched.

Yes, it is a joint project with CWWA as the lead agency.

worthy: "I write off any toilet that doesn't meet the 1,000 gram per flush figure."

That is 2.2 pounds per dump. Have you ever seen such a movement? Neither have I.

But when I was in college, an over-achiever in the building where I lived called everyone in to measure and to document a single 14-inch "piece" that -- remarkably -- did not break on its way to the bottom of the bowl. The MAP test would not measure the ability of any flushing system to deal with such a phenomenon.

It looks like Charmin had a great ad campaign! Their charming slogan got drummed into so many people's heads, that many people seem to consider Charmin to be the iconic toilet paper brand ... Even though it's actually worse!
I used to buy Charmin. No particular reason, just that I was familiar with it from the ads and they stuck in my head and I thought vaguely "Nice TP".
My old 5-gal toilet would get clogged a lot.
Then I started buying thin single-ply TP, sold as single rolls. For environmental reasons. This TP is packaged in paper and I wanted to avoid all the plastic waste from the Charmin.
End of clogging, and the single-ply worked just as well.
I got a Toto Drake recently. I'm happy with it, except that particles end up on the side, and they don't flush off. I just reach in there with a wad of TP and wipe them off.
I like that it finishes refilling in a few seconds. With the 5-gal toilet I had to hear the water flowing for a few minutes each flush.

I posted about my Guinevere toilet making dripping sound. I finally had the new unifit part installed and it worked! My plumber was doubtful it would so i wasn't expecting much. Now i'm asking that toto reimburse me for the expense (they said they would consider it). Thanks for tip!

We have had a Toto Ultramax since 2003 and it's a great toilet. Has needed one part replacement (free from Toto, just snapped in by my not-so-handy DH) early on, nothing since.

Just replaced the 1989 Kohler Wellworth Lite with a Toto Aquia. Was worried about the dual .5/1.6g flushing, but it works like a champ. Only minor problems with dirty bowl, actually less than the Ultramax due to the Aquia's design.

We're very happy with both Totos. Both our drains were an optimal design; e.g., toilet and sink graywater comes in to help move the blackwater out to the sewer. A plumber told us some houses have plumbing connections that don't work effectively with low-flush toilets. It's important to have that greater volume of graywater coming in at the right place for an effective sewer system.

Not only is a huge amount of clean fresh water wasted in this country from high-flush toilets, but the production of extra soft, extra white, extra thick toilet paper and paper towels is environmentally harmful. All of us need to revise our thinking about some things. It's already been mentioned in some forward-thinking articles that the next big commodity war is going to be over water, because there simply isn't enough of it to go around as more countries industrialize.

sophie123--they sent us a check (didn't pay plumber's total bill, but it helped!).

Isn't it funny how a tiny triangular piece of plastic could solve the dripping problem?! Glad it helped you, too!

Sophie here again. I did get a check for the cost of the plumber! covered the whole amount ($125). Even after that i still had the toilet running occassionally so called again and they sent me yet another part which i installed and now it seems perfect. Very quiet now.

I have been trying to decide on toilets and this thread has really thrown me for a loop. We have had Kohler power-assist toilets for the past 17 years in two of three baths; the other bath had a Kohler Portrait without power assist. The power-assist toilets *never* clog, but they are so loud we can't flush them in the middle of the night without waking up the household. (Our children, when young, would flush-and-run, because the loud toilets scared them!) The Portrait was in a powder room, and even with only occasional use it clogs continually and never takes down even toilet paper with one flush. (And we use a fast-disintegrating toilet paper, BTW, not Charmin.)

Because of the noise, I had planned to go with Toto toilets this time around. My choice was the Ultramax II or the Soiree, and it would have Sanagloss finish and Double Cyclone flushing. Unfortunately, not everyone who disliked the Toto toilets mentioned their model and feature set, so I'm not sure if this combination will give me adequate flushing action. Can anyone give me an experience-based opinion? I'm nervous about buying two of them since they are pretty high priced. I love the idea of the Sanagloss finish, since that has been a problem with all my Kohlers. Would appreciate advice.

I do not like my Toto toilet. It makes awful "groaning" noises when it's not in use and the dripping water runs on and off. DH is going to replace something inside the tank (can't remember what) and hopefully that will fix it.

I insisted on a Toto instead of a less expensive toilet and now wish that I hadn't.

I bought 1 Toto Drake II (to test out, before I bought a second one). I will buy another one when it is time to remodel the other bath. The ultramax II is, I think, the drake II except in a one piece.

Mine: Drake II, double cyclone, sanagloss.

Both our expensive Guinevere Totos clog, and DH and DD have managed to have overflow disasters. We do not use Charmin, and have adequate sewer lines, etc.

The handles on both toilets broke at about the same place and at about the same time, and it took multiple written and telephone attempts to get anyone from Toto customer service to reply. After months of aggravation, we were finally told of a defect in the mechanism of that model and were sent replacement parts. For the price of these things we felt like a recall notice should have gone out to all owners of this model rather than the owners having to dig the information from the company.

While I prefer the look and sitting comfort of the Toto, we will be replacing them with the American Standard Champion 4. We have one in our master and nothing seems to clog it.

Toto is a tremendous disappointment in function and customer service. We cannot recommend them at all. Our Totos will be going to the curb soon. If you are in Lake Norman, NC area, contact me if you want them!

We remodeled a bath last year and put in an American Standard (Cadet 3- I think). We're extremely happy with it.

We are currently remodeling another bath, and I've decided to go with a concealed trap way, skirted version. I chose the American Standard Tropic... I could not find a single review for it, so I'm a little nervous about the decision. But figured since we're happy with the American Standard we have, it should be alright.

It hasn't been installed yet, so if anyone reads this thread and has some feedback, I'd appreciate it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Our Bath Renovation

TOTOs need direct venting. Working on a 1.6 unibody, I found a single vent through the roof in an adjacent toilet room, separate from the TOTO. The TOTO unit would not flush because it did not get the proper air flow. The water fills the bowl and stays there when the flush lever is activated. When I bailed the water from the bowl and got near the bottom, bubbles started flowing back into the bowl. Make sure you properly vent the TOTO or it will not work properly or not at all. An expensive toilet needing an expensive venting fix.

When called to "unclog" the TOTO, I firstly, plunged it, then removed the toilet to check for any obstructions. I poured 5 gals. of water down the outlet to make sure no clogs. I placed the TOTO outside on the driveway, then filled the bowl with water - it flushed properly. I filled the tank and activated the handle and it flushed properly. When I reinstalled it, it would not flush - the water stayed in the bowl. I decided to run a snake through the bowl hole and siphon but i found no obstructions. So, my conclusion is the toilet needs a vent connected to its own outlet. Since the only vent is 10 feet away, the TOTO does not have adequate air flow for the flush function.

This post was edited by jerry_murray on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 2:29

I'm sorry, but we had 4 Toto Ultramax toilets, they all worked just fine, and none of them had any special venting. They were installed to replace older toilets.

jerry_murray 20f/Puget Sound:
"TOTOs need direct venting."

No, they do not.

Here is a link that might be useful: Toto detailed installation instructions

We have two Toto Ultramax II toilets, in the hall bath and guest bath. We like the height. They are easy to keep clean (this is a major criteria for me when selecting any fixture), look nice and flush well with small amount of water.

We don't use special toilet paper (don't even know we should). We never have had any problem since the first one installed in April this year. We purchased third one to be installed in the master bathroom that is being remodeled. Our GC who has done hundred bathroom remodels also said it is a good choice.

I'm very unhappy with my Toto Guinevere, but not because of the flush, which is outstanding. You have to understand that the toilet is not the sole factor that determines flush performance. The plumbing and vent arrangement has a lot to do with it. Some disagree, but as an engineer it's clear that a drain/vent system that enhances the siphoning action will result in a better flush. Some toilets are more sensitive to this than others. I had abysmal performance with the previous toilet (Kohler) but when I re-did the bathroom I changed the drain/venting scheme. I am convinced it helped.

The problem I have with Toto is that the flapper design is terrible; it gets sucked into the opening and leaks. You can screw around with it to make it work, but why should you have to on a toilet at that price?

My other complaint is the "sanagloss". Everything sticks to it. With 1.28 gallon toilets, the water is very shallow; you get nastiness both above and below the water line. With my Toto you end up brushing the toilet maybe 3 times out of 5. I recommend staying away from sanagloss, and also from 1.28 gallon toilets in general. They look more or less the same but the bowl is very, very shallow... there just isn't enough water in the bowl with a 1.28. Just another stupid government regulation.

andy_m: "My other complaint is the "sanagloss". Everything sticks to it. With 1.28 gallon toilets, the water is very shallow; you get nastiness both above and below the water line. With my Toto you end up brushing the toilet maybe 3 times out of 5. I recommend staying away from sanagloss, and also from 1.28 gallon toilets in general. They look more or less the same but the bowl is very, very shallow... there just isn't enough water in the bowl with a 1.28. Just another stupid government regulation."

Toilet manufacturers spend a lot of time on the "water spot" and depth issues in the design process. Lumping the characteristics of all toilets, or even of all 1.28 gpf toilets, together proceeds on the assumption that all of those designers made the same choices, which, quite apparently, they did not. We have never have owned a Guinevere, so I cannot speak to your problem, but since we replaced a 3.5 gpf toilet with a 1.28 gpf Toto Vespin II three years ago, we have not noticed any increase of "failed to submerge" issues, and the new toilet requires no more frequent cleaning than the older one did, and the shape of the inside of the bowl is actually easier to clean than the shape of the old toilet.

As for the "[j]ust another stupid regulation" comment and milligi's "Gov't in our 'business'....literally" comment, please do not allow your politics to interfere with your powers of reason. When you have drawn the balance in your bank account down to zero and the bank no longer will honor your checks, it is not the bank's regulations that stop you from buying a new trinket. All over the world, the increasing population of humans either has caused or in the foreseeable future will cause water shortages, and very likely rationing of the remaining water resources. The 1.28 gpf toilet design model is a response to a real physical scarcity issue.

Thank you Herring_maven. I love not flushing gallons and gallons of water down the drain. I love using my LED lights too. We humans have been very short sighted.

I also really like my Toto toilets. Especially my Promenade. I find it easy to clean. The exposed skirting is more fussy to clean, but all my toilets have been that way through the years. I have had no problems with my Promenade. I also have the Maris. It is a skirted design. It is way different in its water spot and how it's bowl is shaped. I haven't used it much yet, but I don't think I care for the shape of the inside structure. I love the looks of the overall toilet though, and it flushes well with a cyclone action. The Maris is more prone to soiling than the Promenade because of the small water spot. I have not had problems with clogging in either toilet.

I have two Totos, 1.28, one piece. ADA compliant. Toto makes so many different designs you cannot generalize. If you have elongated seats, you need to sit farther back to hit the sweet spot. None are going to flush as quiet and as thoroughtly as those "oldies but goodie" toilets that used lots and lots of water. If you live in CA like me, this is just how it has to be now, and my water bill shows it.

-Babka

I had hoped to have some helpful input as to the 5 or so difficulties I have experienced with my Toto--"bulk" and "general" bowl cleaning not among them.

*visible trap line configuration
*thinner wall or bowl design result: excessive noise transmission
*flapper failure at only 3 years
*buildup of minerals in trap
*siphoning into dry trap w/ water shut off

I am disappointed that andy_m chose to zero in on the last sentence--five words--of my post when I was merely trying to introduce a little humor. Most certainly govt regulations have effected the current design standards, inside and out. Restating my preference, once again (before the $400 strain on my budget) for my old, perfectly functioning, American Standard even with the unsightly appearance of my "booster" seat.

milligi 10: "I am disappointed that andy_m chose to zero in on the last sentence--five words--of my post when I was merely trying to introduce a little humor."

According to our browser's text search function, the post containing the sentence above was the very first post in this thread that was authored by milligi 10. Do you refer to a post in another thread?

I need some help with my toilet choices for my new house. 6 years ago I redid 2 baths in my current house and after a lot of research choose to go with the Cadet 2 in the master, and Kohler Archer (for looks) in the powder room. I'm not happy with either choice. Neither toilet plugs often (that's not the problem) but these are the issues I found:

The Cadet 2 just seems like a weak flush (many times requiring 2 flushes. Doesn't 'feel' powerful. However, haven't had running, handle, or other flapper issues, so good in that regard.

The Kohler Archer is gorgeous. Love the way it LOOKS. Hate the reliability. With toilets in this home since the 1980s requiring ZERO maintenance, I've had to replace several parts on this toilet in 5 years. Which is totally annoying.

-The inside part of the handle is made of plastic, wore out after 2 years and had to replaced (with another plastic handle at a cost of $20).

-The handle is made to look vintage (love the looks) so requires you to pull up to flush instead of down, if you don't do it correctly, the toilet runs and runs because the flapper doesn't close.

-The rubber part of the flushing mechanism (not a normal flapper from my 1980s toilets, but some weird looking tower thing that has since been changed, I believe) has worn out TWICE, thus the toilet runs constantly until I replace that. Also at my cost of like $20 for rubber washer.

-Both the Cadet 3 and Kohler Archer do a bad job of washing the bowl- leaving sticky bits often. This may be just the nature of the beast with lowflow, so I'm not super hung up on this (but would love a toilet that minimized this).

Anyhow, to bring this back to the original question, in my new house I was going to get the Toto Drake because this site speaks so highly of it. But is this actually the case? Are they RELIABLE? I don't want to have to fix my new toilet after a few years. I want it to work, I want it to flush the first time, and I'd like it to be fairly clean. I will give on the looks this time. I'd love it if it used parts that have been proven to work (unlike my Archer flushing mechanism which must have been the new thing, and now they changed it). Are there toilets that still use the old school flapper and big balloon? Do those work on low flow? Do the Drakes use the same parts they've always used? What's the difference between the Drake and Drake 2?

Drake and Drake 2 difference.

I believe the difference is in the flushing system. Regular Drake is G- max flushing and Drake II is Double Cyclone flush. Supposedly a double cyclone flush gives a better bowl and rim wash with water swinging around in the bowl. In the regular Drake the water rinses straight down. In most other ways they are the same.

Drake
G-Max Flushing System Computer Designed, Fully Glazed Trapway Elongated Seat Chrome Trip Lever Other tanks available to accommodate bolt down lid and insulated tank requirements ADA Compliant 12"

Drake II
SanaGloss Double Cyclone Flushing System Computer Designed, Fully Glazed Trapway Elongated Bowl Chrome Trip Lever Universal Height ADA Compliant 12" Rough-In -

We've had the Toto Promenade for about a month now (1.6 gal). I'm liking it, and it has a vintage look too as a plus for those of us who want that type of look.

TOTO= CST744S#12
I have had these toilets in 2 homes and loved them. We now have Kohlor Wellingtons and HATE them. We have lived here 3 months. The toilets are 2 years old. We have constant clogs and leaks. I have had the plumber out 3 times. 3 different plumbers have told me the tower design is just poor. I am online replacing 6 toilets with the Totos right now. I suggest National Builder Supply for your best price.

Oh boy. I hope the next person who has a problem with a Toto will begin a new thread. This one began in 2011 and a lot has changed in those intervening years. I have two one piece Totos and am very pleased with them. Let's compare apples to apples. 1.6 to a 1.6gal, or a 1.28 to a 1.28 gal. And those flush handles come in front or side handles, or on top (buttons). Pick what works for you. Ask your plumber which ones he has the most calls on and avoid those.

-Babka

-Babka

Almost for sure you have a issue with the drain under the floor, the Toto Drake is probably the #1 residential flushing toilet on the market.

Most likely there's either something in the drain or possibly when the toilet was installed the wax seal could have been shifted over to one side and is not sitting in the center, so it's catching all types of debris, it's a pretty common problem actually.

Or it could also be a air venting issue as well.

I would for sure look into these things to solve the problem.

I personally haven't ever seen a Drake actually "not" flush before that I can remember.

The lid doesn't fit on any toto toilet. The user above me has no clue what they are talking about. No vent needed, no wax seal needed, and def not a drain problem. Dryfus for lifeus.

I have two Toto's - the single piece one from 2011 has worked great since day one. I just installed a dual flush, wall hung Aquina - it works well also. The lids fit on both my Toto's.

dryfedogg420- what Wyattworks was trying to explain to you about the venting is nothing that comes with your toilet but with the house. It is like trying to fill a bottle with water turn it upside down and let the water drain out it doesn't very well because you need air exchange the toilet works the same if you go outside and look at your roof you will see small diameter pipes sticking out through the roof this is your air exchange. Maybe that was not done right or the pitch of the pipes going out may be more or less pitch then is proper... Plumbing has to have certain things done right (the ones I mentioned above) so it works properly. When I moved into my house I should have known there was a plumbing issue as there was a plunger next to the toilet. They were first gen low flow and they didn't work well at all. We installed (2) Carolina skirted Toto's and they work so much better. We do get the occasional back up about 1 every 6 months or so. It's the pipes behind the wall nothing we can do about it, but the Toto sure improved the situation.

What's a water bottle or North Carolina have to do with this ?

dryfredogg I guess my explanation was lost on you. Please re read it again maybe it will make sense, Carolina is a contemporary style of toilet Toto sells, People here are trying to help you and I tried to help you... Good luck....

Oh thanks

same issue very disappointed in toto toilet

I bought a Toto Eco Flush CST784EF for our master bathroom and it is terrible. You need to have a toilet brush scrubber by you each time you use the bathroom because there is not enough water or pressure to clean the toilet. And, it was $600. The biggest waste of money I ever spent. Go with American Standard. We bought one of those for our powder room and it is amazing for 2/3 rds of the cost.

I hate mine! They are the worst ever! The glaze is defective. I always have to flush twice. Garbage! Overpriced crap. My Home Depot $100 toilet is so far superior, it’s ridiculous.

I installed 2 Toto Drake Improved toliets - both do not flush solids without leaving residue. Even with 2 extra flushes we need to use a toilet brush 90 percent of the time. Toto dealer says he has not heard of this problem.

I purchased 2 Toto promenades 8 years ago and they have been great toilets. I have never had a clog or leak and no residue at all.

Only complaint is sometimes when guests flush, the handle sticks in the up position causing the water to run. (Never happens when we use it.) We had a SERIOUSLY expensive water bill when we went out of town for two weeks and had a pet sitter stay at our place.

You are not alone. I HATE my Toto toilet. It clocked the first week we installed it. I've had a plumber come several times. Going to replace it and turn it into a planter, the only thing it would be good for.

I do not think these are made for hard water. I think they are probably good for other people. Stains are hard to clean with all of their restrictions.

Toto is good but it can still clog. I bought a Caroma toilet. It has a 4 inch drain/trapway. It has been a month now and we have had zero clogs. It is amazing how much "solid waste" it can flush at once.