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faucet-to-spout depth

Posted by aliris19 (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 20, 14 at 13:31

This *has* to have been covered, but I'm having trouble finding it. Is it recommended that the "throw" of a faucet from stem to outflow be the same distance as from the stem to the sink drain?

A couple years ago now I bought a really pretty sink and faucet for it from a local plumbing place that failed to alert me to this parameter. The three-hole setup fell far, far short of the center of the bowl and there was so much splashing all over the wooden top that everything's just rotten and failing now. :( I'm going to install a stone top, move the bowl forward and change out the faucets.

But I'm not sure what sort of a faucet to get at the end of the day. Should it be really a broad throw then? Or just bigger than it currently is? Do you need pictures or is there a rule of thumb for this?

TIA!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: faucet-to-spout depth

There shouldn't be any splashing if there is an aerator in the faucet.

-Babka


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RE: faucet-to-spout depth

Yes, it is good to match the position of the faucet spout with the sink drain. The higher the faucet the more the water can splash. The more shallow the sink, the more the water can splash.

So when you are purchasing the faucet and sink, you need to be looking at their specifications. Also look at the angle at the end of the faucet spout - it can direct water straight down or at an angle.


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It may not s much be splashing as just dripping and too close ... dunno.

The sink is a 21" oval. The distance-to-drain is 7", the "throw" of the faucet is 4". The sink has fairly steep sides and the water just never really gets into the bowl!


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Oh -- good point about the angle! It's straight down. Maybe that's the biggest problem.... I can't imagine what this faucet would be good for! A tiny corner wash basin perhaps.


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I'll upload some pictures and maybe you'll be able to tell me *why* this has been such a "disaster" (with apologies to people experiencing actual real disasters)...

****This is pretty messy! I'm in the middle of cleaning, and my kids are quite slobbish ... OK, we all are....****

Thanks for any ideas as to how to correct what went wrong....

 photo IMG_1780_zps5b1684f5.jpg

 photo IMG_1781_zpsae61f103.jpg
 photo IMG_1775_zps2c0a5f36.jpg


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Can you take a photo of the side view showing the water running and the drain in the same pic?

-Babka


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I would not have paired this faucet and sink together. The faucet does not have enough reach (length) over the sink, especially to get your hands or toothbrush under. So you have a lot of splashing over the edge of the sink onto the counter.

If you want to keep the sink and refinish the wood counter, you would need to buy a different faucet that has the height to get over the rim of the sink and length to carry the water far enough into the center of the sink. So measure the distance from the faucet hole to the sink drain. Find a faucet that matches that distance. Also, measure the height from the counter to the top of the sink rim. You will probably find several faucets that will go over the lip, but you need to find one that looks good, has the proper "presence" or proportion. When you narrow it down to those two measurements, then look at the distance between the end of the faucet spout and the bottom of the sink to make sure that it is not too high to where the water will splash back up.

Do your search on line to where you can drill down and look at the specification sheet.

If you replace the wood counter, work very closely with the fabricator on the placement of the faucet spout.

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Thu, Feb 20, 14 at 17:10


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This is what you need ;)

It would allow all the water to go into the sink. No fuss no muss.

I hate water falling on my counter. I have a top lever that is over the spout. I haven't hooked it up yet but the drippy hands should remain over the sink when turning it on/off. In my other bathroom,done last year, the backsplash is all part of the sink and I have a wall mounted faucet. No back ledge for water to collect. The sink functions like the one I posted above. It's great, the water stays in the sink.


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Yes, since you are not in the habit of wiping down water drips around the faucet, then get a sink with a backsplash or a drop in that has coverage around the handles. Even if you get a stone countertop, if you don't wipe up the standing water it will create mineral deposits that you will end up having to scrape off.

If you don't want to replace the wooden counter and backsplash, how about installing a rectangular large drop in sink or a small vanity top sink that would cover up the faucet holes.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kingston Brass Londonville sink

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Thu, Feb 20, 14 at 18:36


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RE: faucet-to-spout depth

You guys rock! As it were ... thank you for the help!! Yes, those would be good photos...

Anna -- you can say that again! *terrible* choice. I bought it from a bath supply place and I would think the designer would have thought about this in advance -- what else is she doing there anyway? Whatever ... water down the drain, that was two years ago. I actually went back there today for the first time since ... no need to discuss that any further!

Here are some photos showing the problem. It's pretty acute!

 photo IMG_1792_zpsa6210102.jpg

 photo IMG_1793_zpsdf5584c6.jpg

 photo IMG_1794_zps88d329d9.jpg

The last photo shows how far from the edge the sink is. I am going to put a stone on top of the wood and set the sink into it, and move the sink forward a good inch toward the edge. This will make it easier to use the sink, give more space behind for the faucet, etc.

Basically, this sink has never worked from the get-go. But I'm not 100% sure why --- does the reach account for all of the problem or are young wet hands having to reach too far back some of it too?

I had been thinking changing from a three hole faucet to a one-hole might cut down on the amount of hand-water ... but I'm not sure sure that matters now.

Faucet hole to drain is 7". Bowl is quite steep. Current faucet (Eva I believe?) is 4". But as well it's set back from the start of the bowl -- when I was in stores today I had forgotten about that. I was looking for a reach at least 6" but that won't be enough will it, because the stem of the faucet has its own depth....

You can see in the photos I think that the rim of the sink is pretty substantial. I didn't measure, but it's an inch I'd guess.

I have a carpenter-friend who's going to recut the sink forward into the wooden top and then the fabricator can just template from his holes.

I had been thinking one-stem faucet but that gets to being awfully heavy....

Would anyone care to offer an opinion on that? I have some photos of faucet-candidates. But I don't want to bore you!

I have confirmed what I found in renovating my kitchen: this faucet decision for me is the toughest of them all, and I never liked what I came up with on *any* of them!!!! Well... that's not quite true. I like one bath faucet, one laudry faucet and 1 of 2 kitchen faucets. I think I am the only one on the planet who does *not* like the Karbon...

Enduring: I *adore* that sink!!!! Though not for where it's to go, but I would love to have it in my kitchen. Wish I'd made my cleanup sink bigger like this! :)

I actually never appreciated that water pooling around sinks is part of the deal. I just have felt all this time that there's something wrong with us and/or the faucets, etc. Given that, this arrangement makes a *lot* of sense!!!

I don't want to buy another sink. No funds and I like the looks of this anyway; I'd like to try to make this work. But I'm beginning to understand that water happens, outside of sinks. This must be why Trader Joe's makes microfiber towels!

Thanks for your thoughts.... I'd be thrilled to post the pictures of the faucets I was considering if that won't bore you-all. Honestly, I am just thoroughly faucet-challenged.


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I would not have your carpenter cut anything until the fabricator inspects your vanity and makes a template for the stone. Your vanity may even require another sheet of plywood.

I have very hard water where I live. I wash my hands very frequently because of my hobby. I do not want to wipe a granite top every time I wash my hands. I have had to scrape the hard water mineral deposits from around my kitchen sink with a razor blade 2 years after I moved in because I did not dry off the counter after doing the dishes. I am installing the following sink below in my master on top of granite with an eased edge treatement.

You can find good prices on faucets on ebay too. And undermounted sinks are not that expensive. Shop on line. A rectangular sink will be better at catching drips than an oval.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kohler Tresham Vanity Sink

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Thu, Feb 20, 14 at 23:11


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Thanks, Ana. The wood top is a full inch thick, far more than a standard rough top. I can't imagine there will be a problem. I will likely have the stone overlay the edge of the wood but stop shy to meld into the molding that is all over the bottom of it. The chest-of-drawers was a resale shop find.


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Took me forever but I finally found the specs: http://www.build.com/mediabase/specifications/1021-000.pdf

It's actually 7.75" so with an additional inch for the faucet stem mount, that's closer to a 9" throw! youch! That's more like a kitchen sink faucet! ... or I wonder bathtub???


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The sink you have looks like it should go into a seldom used powder room. It looks to me there will always be a water issue regardless of the faucet. If you get a longer spout, then the spout might get in the way of washing tasks preformed by a busy family.

I noticed when I was sink shopping, that many sinks had a very vertical back slope. I didn't look at a lot, but Kohler's sinks seem to be that way. That would solve the problem with the water hitting the back wall.

I just went online to look at Kohler's sinks. All the ones I looked at, when the back was sloped like your sink, gave a notice of faucet selection on the spec sheet. If the sink had a vertical back wall, there was no notice regarding faucet selection.

You need a new sink. That sink is not working IMHO. Take a look at Kohler's list of sinks in vitreous china and top mounted. On the web page they show single hole sinks but I am sure they come in 3 hole as well.

If you put that faucet on a sink with a platform with holes drilled in, your water woes will be greatly reduced. Most water will fall onto the platform and drain back into the sink.

The Kohler Caxton (not shown in this list I've linked) I thought came in a china drop in with a platform for the faucet. It is not expensive if I remember, under $100. Lowes or HD may have it. I would look into that one. Plain, but looks functional. Look at a plumbing supply store to see what they have in Kohler sinks for real life examples. The Ferguson's where I live have many to see.

I would avoid any sloped sinks like your existing sink, and any that did not have its own platform for mounting the faucet, so that the water drains back into the sink.

Many thoughts and some may be redundant. You can see I really want you to get a new sink ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: Kohler drop in sinks.


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The shallow, sloped sides sink is more for show in a seldom used bathroom. The following picture, from the Kohler site, would seem to have the same problem and presumably has the company approved faucet. The sink is little more than a dimple in the vanity top.


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Agree, this is a problem with this look.


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:(

You guys are not telling me what I want to hear! ;)

grump-ola.

Maybe I should phone the manufacturer, St. Thomas, and ask what is recommended. I don't recall seeing anything on the spec sheet about this problem but I agree, it is clearly there; you have identified it all correctly. So irritating....

Maybe a faucet the swivels with a long reach?


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If you have a family, sometimes you have to decide on function over form. If you like the sink that much, install it in your powder room with a more appropriate faucet - if you think that it will still work with your busy family. Or put it up in the attic until the kids move out.

Decide what you like about this sink and choose a more practical version. And yes, a faucet that is going to give you good function may not look like a dainty jewel. When you posted, I thought that your vanity was in a master bathroom used by adults, not a busy family with kids.

I find looking up specifications quite easy. I go to the manufacturer's website and start drilling down the menus. Most of the online stores have the specification sheets. I don't find the prices for a nice Kohler sink too expensive. The online plumbing stores are very competitive. There are very good prices on Ebay.

If funds are an issue, I would keep the wooden counter - sand and marine varnish it of course, and put the money into a new faucet and sink. Even if you use this sink with a new faucet on a new stone countertop, you are still going to have pooling water around the faucet, especially with a busy family.

The Kohler Serif is a nice drop in sink that can be either contemporary or traditional. It has a nice vessel look to it also. I found it for $150 no tax including shipping on the internet. Home Depot has it for $150 with tax ship free to store.

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 12:04


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What kind of faucet do you have? The sink might be cheaper to replace than the faucet.

How old are your kids? (and your husband :) I would be concerned that the swivel feature might swivel on over to the counter, wide open, and really be a watery mess.


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Anna, we cross posted. I think the example you've posted is very nice. And I bet it comes in a 3 hole version too.


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Enduring, Anna - thanks. Um, kids are teenagers. So gone in an eyeblink. Leaving a trail of wreckage in their wake...

You do make a good point about the sink being less costly than the faucet! The faucet is an "Eva" - not sure the brand, probably Kohler.

This is why these bathrooms have been unfinished for years! I am getting very discouraged .... here's the thing; I really, really like the look of that sink. Stupid of me, I know. Ordinarily, I"m all over the "function over form" thing. I just really liked making that bathroom into something special.... I wonder if I could put a faucet to its side on the long ovalish part to prevent it's size from interfering with the center of the sink where they "Spit"....


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If you want form over function,, then create new rules for the vanity and enforce them - wipe up all drips after use. Make sure you have hand towels in reach, Make sure that you launder and replenish the towels on a regular basis. Basic manners and respect for nice things. Just tell the kids that Mom wants a nice looking bathroom and they have to keep it looking nice. New rules.

If you like the sink that much, then you can make it work.

Look at vessel sink faucets too - don't get one that is too high or you will have splashing when the water hits the bottom of the sink bowl. Or a wall faucet. Browse through Houzz and look for ideas that will work for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Houzz search on vessel sink in powder room

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 13:09


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And yet another opinion here...Keep that very pretty sink and treat it as a "vessel" sink. Get a one hole stem faucet designed for a vessel sink that has the on off lever just above the spout so that wet hands won't drip behind the sink. A Google search gave me a lot of options design-wise. If you wish to keep that very cool wood counter, you could cover the extra holes with a 1/2" piece of wood stained to match, then mount the single hole faucet thru that.

I buy a bunch of cheap wash cloths and put a fresh one out each day right next to the sink specifically to wipe off the water around the sink. A single handled faucet is MUCH easier to wipe off than a faucet and two handles.

-Babka


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Anna -- lol ... such a funny lecture you propose: "new rules". That will work for 6.2 minutes. Maybe. Bottom line is, we don't have the cleanest of houses and unless everyone's on the same page that way, trying to enforce special rules just is never going to work. I've had a stack of fresh towels 4" away forever. Doesn't work.

But anyway ... it's all moot now ... I got online to tell you my sad-funny tale. The sink is broken.

sniff.

I loved that stupid sink! But I realize I'm the only one to have. It must have fulfilled some weird fantasy of mine about my children being little petals or something. They're aren't actually, either of them very pink or petally. But I did like that sink.

I was working with the carpenter in another bathroom when I hear a crash ... me to the plumber: "are you OK"? Him, "yes..." Me - um, maybe I'd better just go take a peek. :(

The overmount had been glued so strongly to the vanity that evidently it wouldn't come off without breaking. Or something. I am not a happy camper. Seems to me he could have called for some opinions, advice, witnesses if he'd got to that degree of a stuck place. But ... it's all water down the vanity now, or something....

Looks like my pretty petal sink is going to become not a vessel but a planter. :( :( :(

So this problem is now over. Hopefully. I have a sink that was going into a master bath with curves on the ends but a fairly horizontal back. I think the current faucets will still give a stream pretty close to the back of the sink, but not too terrible so. Plus that sink will become undermounted beneath stone and I'm hopeful that the little splashing that may result will stay in control. Under those circumstances I might even give the "new rules" lecture. Because with some hope of keeping things cleanish and dryer it's a lot easier to make new rules.

Thanks, all! I am one disappointed person at the moment but in the scope of life's misfortunes, this doesn't really rank. Still ... fwiw both the plumber and the carpenter agreed with you both that the sink was looking poorly in that locale too. And my kids think that too! So ... out-gunned and out-karma'ed it looks like it's a sink and not a faucet I'm now in the market for!

:)


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It will make a lovely planter. So sorry for your loss. Bummer.

-Babka


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I can't believe it, ;)))

I mean, I'm sorry too :(


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What a funny ending! Post pictures when you finish.


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It could be worse.....


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Dreaming, LOL. Is that something you've experienced?


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Dreaming- OMG! That made my whole day. Thanks!

-Babka


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Nah, there was an email making the rounds a while back with "contractor fail" pictures. Hard to say which were real and which were staged, although mistakes do happen. And I might add, they could have just as well been DIY fails. When pros fail, the results are usually more dramatic.

More on topic, here's a different solution to the original problem.

This post was edited by DreamingoftheUP on Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 22:54


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One more and then I'll shut up.

@aliris19, you said, I loved that stupid sink! But I realize I'm the only one to have. It must have fulfilled some weird fantasy of mine about my children being little petals or something. They're aren't actually, either of them very pink or petally. But I did like that sink.

Speaking of petally children.....

Here is a link that might be useful: Blooming Baby Bath


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Oh Dear! We digress......

-Babka


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Dreaming -- thanks for all the chuckles. That blooming baby is so beautiful ... my but those were the days! I know it all felt unimaginably hard when they were so tiny but from here, it seems like about as good as life can get ... and easy. Teenagers are considerably less adorable! (but more rewarding in some ways).

Anna -- pictures? OK, you asked ... I took a picture of my poor, broken sink. And its replacement from another bathroom. I must say, that "loser" faucet is suddenly quite pretty, highly functional and plenty good-enough. The whole bathroom is less, well "special" I think, but that's going to be fine. It should be more than made up for by having an actual functional sink! Both my kids were ecstatic to hear the sink had broken -- dh too. It's funny, everyone I know really hated that sink. Folly.... ;)

Here's the beloved, deflowered:  photo IMG_1795_zps7571419a.jpg

Here's the transplanted "new" sink -- I was in the process of round-robining sinks and faucets anyway, so this got waylaid from its transit to a *different* chest-of drawers. You can see the jerry-rigging with a block of wood to pull the faucet forward following the different-shaped cutout that left it with no wood to attach to, and the water actually falling onto the drain now. :)  photo IMG_1804_zpsf4fbe1d8.jpg

And here's a picture of the whole bathroom, which I just love and have never been able to photograph in any kind of reasonable reflection of its essence. In photos it looks weird and spotty and even a little cold. It's a really fun place, just about my favorite spot in the house. But I really don't think this comes across. You see the mess of course (some, not all, due to current work) and the stick-clothes tree and the wirey elfa and it looks just cheap and weird. I can't tell whether that's a cold objective eye of the camera and it is in fact weird, or why in real life it just does not feel this way at all.... interesting (to me at least):  photo IMG_1806_zps19d3e24d.jpg

There's a very cool abalone shell mirror you can't see above the sink and very, very neat-weird lamps above them that are flowers, sort of, with a slight colored glow to their shades (sounds weird, it's not ... really) and a really pretty hand blown lamp on the ceiling from a child's old room -- it's whimsical too.

Another good thing about having the "special" sink gone is that leaves more 'room' to choose an interesting stone for the top. It was going to be hard to find something calm enough not to clash with the sink but also interesting -- there's a shade more leeway now for interesting or color there. ... if you follow. I don't have anything picked; I'll go look at some scraps (I'm working with a yard with tons of scrap, deliberately).

I've always always loved that countertop made from recycled glass - it's way more expensive than I could afford ordinarily but I saw some scrap of it a while back ... that would be exciting perhaps...


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I was intrigued with your bathroom in your first posting of pictures when I could see the fun floor. I also was interested in the pearly texture I saw in that picture too. I couldn't make it out.

It is such a great feeling to feel renewed and rested in a space. That's great. Your new sink will support these feelings...you won't be cursing that faucet anymore, now that it's found a proper home.


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Thanks, Enduring! Those colored tiles are -- I'm out of it now but I used to remember the name of the company and anyone into tiling probably knows the company I mean -- they're from the pacific northwest and the color of those tiles is really transluscent, I just never get tired of looking *into* them. They're amazing. The big dark tiles in the shower are three of those Batcheldor iris tiles -- I also forget that company's name .... I just had a few of the large squares so I scattered them randomly about the floor forgetting that bathroom floors get covered with scatter rugs; often you can't see the tiles ;) I know they're there!

These pictures are terrible color-wise; that wall was hard to find the right color for too. It's the faintest of blues, really the color your tub might turn to when you fill it with water. It looks grey here and also a little darker than IRL.

QUESTION, should anyone actually read this far... The vanity has a tiled backsplash with 4x4s on a diagonal and edge pieces that are maybe 1x4 at the end of their run; you can maybe just pick it out on the photo.

Trouble is now I'm going to put stone on the top, it will have a 3/4" edge that will hang over the start of the BS. Any ideas how to deal with this? I imagine asking the stone guy to cut with a 1/4" bite on the edge would be massively annoying to him, no? But I cannot think of anything else. And that wouldn't look very good either. Maybeeee,,, I could get an edge tile that's 4x4 and cut it down to come to the edge of the top, and maybe piece in a titchy one for the 1x4 topping and move the corner edge. That will all look quite silly too!!

Ideas? Maybe just calk the 1/4" gap to the wall and ignore the rest?

The other edge of the vanity dies into the wall, so it will have the same problem, only less-so ....

TIA!


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How thick is the new counter going to be?

Is it going to lay right on top of the wood counter?

Have you thought about just taking out the tile backsplash and installing a new one? The diamond shape will be altered with any elevation of counter top.


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You may have explained it above, but I can't remember or picture it exactly... how are you masking the fact that the stone will be sitting on top of the dresser? Are you creating a false lip, so that your counter will appear to be 2X the thickness it actually is? Will glueing 2 pieces of stone together to create that edge not up the cost of fabricating?

Enduring brings up a good point about losing the diamond pattern when putting on the stone top. I know this project is now growing in size (and expenditure), but perhaps it would be a good idea to remove the old BS and start totally fresh. I also think that looking long and hard at pics can let us see things in a new light.

I think you have 2 or 3 conflicting themes/design ideas going on in there....the seashell/petal sort of old school bathroom (the ones are parents had), craftsman, and Ikeaish. Maybe try and figure out what it is that you love about the BR, why is it that your heart sings in there? It may be easier to eliminate one or two of those and stick to just one major decorating direction. One exercise that might be useful is clearing out all the clutter/extraneous 'noise', take pictures. and then spend an afternoon/evening on Houzz and go through tons of photos to see what common factors there are in the pics you like.

My guess is you'll lean towards Craftsman, here is an example of the style I think will suit your BR.


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Or this design direction.....Paint your vanity and put a colorful granite on top. Or a stone that has a pearlesce - something jewel like. Cut it to follow the edge of the vanity, like you would glass on top of a dresser. Colors to continue the pearl glow from the tile.

When you redo the backsplash in tile, try to make it match the tub. Right now the grout is dark like the floor. The tub shower grout is white. The easiest thing to do might be to just go with a matching stone backsplash.

Find a nice lingerie chest - resale or craigslist - and paint it to match the vanity to replace the Ikea baskets.

Find a nice substantial mirror with a mother of pearl frame to replace the seashell mirror - which is a little too beachy.

Ha Ha, I'm on a roll. What does your lighting look like?

This post was edited by Anna_in_TX on Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 20:00


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Anna -- I love that blue counter. Doesn't beagles have it on her kitchen? I think it's massively expensive but as it happens I think I remember seeing some scrap of it where I'll be searching. It's a good idea, though... kinda steals the show. Everything else in that bath is calllm. Not so really mine.

Yeah, there are several themes going on, but I don't think they clash much. I think, sagain, the photos don't do things proper emphasis or justice. For example, I wouldn't have thought IKEA was present at all, though it is, especially in those photos. It's not paramount in person.

You're right about the stepping-up of the project. My plan was to lay counter with a regular-size edge on top of the wooden top, which is a full 1". Which means the stone will end its overhang before the bottom of the wood slab, which is OK. Underneath that wood slab is lots of goopy molding, so the wood peeking out will be just another layer of molding. That's the idea.

I don't want to rip out the backsplash, though I realize it will mean the stone is shy the edge of the counter by 1/4" I just want this to be less not more complicated!


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Agree with Raehelen and Anna. You can get the granite cut to follow the edges of the vanity, and also make a matching granite backsplash. I don't think the current backsplash matches anything - tub, floor - due to the diagonal pattern. I know you don't want to rip it out but - my opinion - it will look much better to make it cohesive with the rest of the room. Electic is good and interesting, but it should still be one main style/theme to let your eyes rest somewhere. No need to make the room "cold" since you obviously love the whimsical features; however I suggest you embrace the new countertop and tie it in with your beautiful tile. Make the tile & countertop the focus and install an oval sink to soften the look. Can you still find the floor tile and use some for a backsplash?


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