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A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter lever

Posted by abfabamy (My Page) on
Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 15:58

We would like to have a fixed showerhead and a handheld unit on a bar off to the side. I was wondering if buying the valve and trim like the one in the picture would work to switch between them. My thought is to hook up the shower as normal (out the top) but plumb the bottom (tub) outlet to a line that feeds the handheld instead. Seems like it should work, but maybe I'm not seeing something I should know!

When pricing this out, this set up would be cheaper than buying a seperate diverter trim and valve set.

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Danze-D500444T-Escutcheon-Diverter-Included/dp/B0015BWEPC/ref=pd_cp_hi_1


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'm using a three way transfer valve which will have similar trim and will control the showerhead, handheld, and tub spout.

Here is a link that might be useful: moen valve trim


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

First, for clarification: the link you provided is just for the trim kit. I just want to make sure you know that you'd also need the rough-in valve in addition to the trim kit, the valve would run another $90 or so.

To answer your question, I'd say your plan won't work. But I'd recommend you call Danze tech support to find out for sure.

A lot of times the "diverter valves" on valves like the Danze are not true diverter valves. They don't send water one way or the other. All they do is close or open the outlet port on the bottom of the valve, that bottom port is the one that feeds the tub. The port that goes out the top of the valve to the shower head? That port is always open no matter where the diverter is positioned.

You want to fill the tub? Switch the diverter valve to "tub". The bottom port opens and water essentially "falls out" the bottom of the valve. If you were to put your hand over the tub spout, the water would actually back up through the valve, flow out of the port on top of the valve, and come out the shower head.

You want to shower? Turn the diverter to "shower". The bottom tub outlet port closes and water now flow upwards and out the shower head.

Now your valve may not be one of those valve. It may be a true diverter. But the reason I think it isn't a true diverter is because in the instructions it says to plumb the tub with a minimum sized tubing to the tub.

Some installers have been using PEX to do the tub outlet, and PEX can have a smaller inside diameter than copper. So what happens is people try to fill their tubs, but the PEX tube connecting the valve to the tub spigot is too small in diameter so water backs up through the valve and starts dribbling out of the shower head.

So my gut reaction is that if you ran the bottom "tub" port through several feet of copper tubing with a few copper elbows, eventually feeding a handheld, it would not at all work as you'd want it to. The regular shower function would work fine. But when you turned the diverter to "tub/handheld", you'd probably get significant back flow through the valve and a good portion of the water would come out of the main shower head instead of coming out of the handheld.

But again, a call to tech support would answer your questions.


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

Thank you so much for the comprehensive answer, Mongoct. I was aware that I had to buy a separate valve and did include that in my figures.

However, I just did a side by side comparison of the cost to achieve what I wanted with a separate diverter valve and trim, and all parts and pieces in the American Standard collection I wanted, to all the Danze parts and pieces I would need for this set up, and much to my surprise, there is only a $40 difference!

Sooo...guess I will do it "the right" way and avoid all the unknowns and possibilities that you mentioned. Hopefully your answer will help someone else to think twice! LOL


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

Thank you so much for the comprehensive answer, Mongoct. I was aware that I had to buy a separate valve and did include that in my figures.

However, I just did a side by side comparison of the cost to achieve what I wanted with a separate diverter valve and trim, and all parts and pieces in the American Standard collection I wanted, to all the Danze parts and pieces I would need for this set up, and much to my surprise, there is only a $40 difference!

Sooo...guess I will do it "the right" way and avoid all the unknowns and possibilities that you mentioned. Hopefully your answer will help someone else to think twice! LOL


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

Yes, it will work. I have that set up in my basement bathroom. The only difference is I have the Parma trim kit.

Danze used to have a Custom Design Shower Guide on their website, but I can no longer find it there as they have redesigned their website. I found a copy on my computer though and this is what it says:

The Danze® pressure balance system controls water temperature by automatically adjusting the fluctuations to incoming water pressure. This system is ideal for a traditional single shower or tub/shower combination. When combined with a handshower and one of our multi-function showerheads, it allows you to take a traditional one outlet shower to a higher level. We offer three variations of our 1/2" pressure balance valve, including; with stops, with diverter and stops and less stops.

Our 1/2" pressure balance mixing valve can provide 6 gallons per minute at 45 psi to support up to 2 outlets. The images below illustrate the plumbing configuration of a 1/2" pressure balance shower system featuring a shower arm diverter, handheld shower and slide bar.

The only problem I have is that their trim kits are all labeled. So, "shower" controls the fixed head and "tub" controls the hand held shower.

edit: I give up, I cannot get the registered trademark symbol to work properly. I tried with both of the HTML codes I have for the symbol, but neither of them seem to be working on Gardenweb.

This post was edited by dekeoboe on Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 21:49


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

Thanks for the input Dekeoboe. Another question for you, then...does the diverter stay on shower when you turn off the water? I know some diverters revert back to tub (or handshower in this case) when the water is shut off, but I thought maybe this kind stays on whatever you chose last.


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

I just tried it out, the diverter stays wherever you had it before you shut it off.


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

I just wanted to add the final chapter to this post in case anyone does a search in the future. I asked the question to American Standard and this is the reply:

Your question has been answered:

Q:
"Can this diverter be set up to go between a shower and a handheld shower instead of tub and shower?"

A:
American Standard said:
"Yes, you can use the tub port for a hand held shower instead."
Serin Bath/Shower Trim Kit with Built-In Diverter

So it appears that the company is verifying that this setup will work if anyone is interested in plumbing your shower this way!


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RE: A different use for a shower control with built-in diverter l

dekeoboe, thanks for clarifying that the valve will indeed work.

abfabamy, good luck with your project!


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