I'm thinking the builders are the ones that need the school. Make them live in a lower floor apartment for a year's lease (and even better, noisy neighbors on either side).

Indeed, a very good point...never thought of it that way.

And what, pray tell, would you be testing them for? Walking around in shoes? Vacuuming? Running water for a bath? Living their life? How are you defining "annoying" noises? Sometimes people just have to lighten up. You're living in an apartment and you are bound to hear others just as they can hear you.

Bud_wi: your attitude is disconcerting. What a lack of empathy and compassion. Yes, the builders should be more aware, especially in these times when the trends are surround sound systems, clunky boots on hardwood floors (especially worn by women, what is it that women's footwear is louder than male footwear), and rude cellphone conversations. We live in a noise culture. The building codes need to keep up with the times. Not that excessive noise in apartments should be allowed in any circumstances, but that the construction should reflect our more advanced technologies and other lifestyle compoments that produce more noise. People have become ruder, more compartmentalized, distrustful, narcissistic. Haven't you noticed the increase of neighbor problems overall, evidenced mainly by blogs on the net? Much of the problem has to do without knowing your neighbors, or a lack of common values which link neighbors to be considerate of each other, or a lack of more stringent screening processes for tenants (not just based on income; one should be able to discrminate based on BEHAVIOR).

Well actually, Bud, maybe they'd be tested on the amount of barrier put between floors and walls. I live in an apartment and never hear anything from my neighbors and one family has two little ones under 4 years old. I'm sure they vacuum, flush and run water, but darned if we hear it.

I don't think I am the one with the disconcerting attitude. The attitude that Mr/Ms. Ihatenoise has, that upper floor people need *training school* like a bunch of bad puppies, is disconcerting. Especially since he/she says they are only talking about noise that is 'typical' and merely 'annoying'.

If you have to sit in a mock lower apartment with a clipboard taking notes, and focusing on sounds that are 'typical' then there probably really isn't a real problem to begin with. What sort of things is the tester going to be looking for that are the 'typical annoying sounds'? "Ooooh, is that a hairdryer I hear? Or an eletric can opener? Training school boot camp for you!"

Yes, I do have empathy and compassion, but is it for the upstairs people who have to put up with this sort of whining.

I am a person who has never owned a stereo or purchased a TV. I don't wear shoes indoors. I don't throw parties. And on the rare occassions that I have anyone over it is only one or two people.

When I was an apartment dweller I constantly got both verbal and even written complaints from neighbors about noise. What kind of noise? Well, one guy put a letter on my door that my alarm clock wakes him up! Now what was I suppose to do about that? Another one seemed to think that I should unplug my phone so they wouldn't hear it ringing all the time. One didn't like it that I did not take my shoes off right at the door, and the poor dears had to hear me walking to my bedroom where I took off my shoes. I was suppose to take them off IMMEDIATELY at the door. Another one did not like it that I took my baths in the evening instead of the morning like they did. In another apartment I had, I was also suppose to run my dishwasher around another person's schedule because they took and nap in the afternoon. I got a complaint from a downstairs tenant who didn't like it that I moved my furniture around when I cleaned. Geeesh. I could go on and on. I'm a laid back person and never complained about anyone no matter what they did. So it's not like I started some sort of battle in these places. Some people just think the world revolves around them.

Believe me, it doesn't get any easier when you become a homeowner. Right now I have neighbors who complain that they don't like me shoveling the foot of snow out of my driveway so that I can get my car in the garage, because they can hear the scraping noises that the shovel makes and they are trying to sleep. What do they expect me to do, park my car in one of theose city lots and take a cab home so they don't have to "suffer"? Of course this is the same guy who mows his lawn at 6:30AM between the houses right outside my bedroom window when I'm trying to sleep. I never said anything to him about it. I'm not that way, which is why I do not understand how somebody can be so sensitive about what other people do. Oh, and this guy has a barking dog and a squauking parrot that he keeps in an open window all summer so that it can 'look out'. Do I complain? No. I have a live and let live philosophy. Why can't others?

The original poster was complaining about regular noises involved with just living in an apartment, not anything excessive or extreme. I would suggest that Ihatenoise always rent apartements on the top floor to that he/she doesn't become irritated with normal living noises from above. And there should be no shock and irritation when the people living below put a note on your door complaining about your ear deafening electric toothbrush or kitchen blender. Think of it as 'training school'.

I see your point, Bud. Sorry you've had so many problems. The point I was trying to make was that if the builders of a goodly amount of the apartments (judging from the noise complaints on this board) would just consider barriers between floors and walls instead of building the cheapo way, maybe--just maybe--everyone would be happier. It doesn't sound like you made much noise, but you still got complaints. As for your neighbor now that you're in a home, I'd say flip him off.

"Flipping someone off" is not my style. Anyway they are really GOOD neighbors all the way around. When they talked to me about my shoveling they were "nice" about it. But I really don't understand where they're coming from on that one. It really irked me. And I am NOT going to change.

It's one of those early riser/night owl conflicts that arise frequently in apartments but apparently are a matter of friction even between homeowners. They both work jobs where they must start work at 6:00AM. I work a job where I work until either 11:00PM or 2:00AM. They don't want to hear me shoveling while they sleep.

I actually DO own a snowblower but I am considerate enough not to run it in the early AM. I feel I am entitiled to shovel whenever I need to.

They are not neighbors from hell. We lend/borrow gardening tools to each other. They give me tomatoes from their garden and I share my harvest of peppers and peas. When I needed a heavy cement bench moved they helped me out. When they needed to clear their gutters I lent them my shop vac. I try to get along with everybody and little things don't bother me, which is why I do not under stand how some people can be so nit-picky.

There is a guy on my block who doesn't want anyone or their guest to park in front of his house on the city street. He doesn't want is "view" blocked and he doens't like having to hear cars doors slam when he is relaxing. Like I said, it doesn't get any easier when you own your own home. Same type of jerks, just a different enviroment.

Boy it sure took awhile for responses to roll in, anyways currently i live underneath a drunk, and theres always stomping and people falling on the floor doors being slammed constantly. Honestly "budwi" if you dont know ones situation you need to ask more info before you say stuff. I have been threw 3 apartments and #1 and #3 currently are the worst. And since you live in wisconsin stop over by me sometime and hear for you self, i had to take all the glass out of the cupboards because of the constant shaking.

normal noises are fine, unnecssary noise is not. I have lived in a house and its nice that no one is above or below you. Just on the sides and so on. Also i take alot of others crap before i snap too. And so far i have ended up with 3 ppl that were house to apartment and they are by far the worst, in my experience.

ihatenoise: "Honestly "budwi" if you dont know ones situation you need to ask more info before you say stuff."

I did ask more info in my very first post. Go back and read it. I asked how you were defining those "annoying" noises and what exactly it is that you would be 'testing' upper people for, in the mock apartment you suggested. Your original post was a bit vauge.

You original post said "typical annoying noises" from upper apartments. Drunks falling down and slamming doors, does not fall into that catagory. You have a tenant problem that you should address to your landlord. Best that the landlord talk to them rather than you do it. Drunks can be fiesty.

maybe you didnt see my other post "budwi" im around the greenbay area, if you wanna stop in let me know. Or else since you dont seem to live in an apartment anymore i consider your posts irrelavent.

I think someone with a long history of apartment living (even if they are currently living in a house) is most likely going to be able to contribute usefully to a forum about apartment living. Maybe Bud jumped to some conclusions early on, but your original post contained NO details about your story and did mention "typical" noises.

If you want to tell your story and get advice, just tell your story in the original post.

I, for one, have learned quite a bit from this thread. I've learned that people are complaining everywhere about everything. (Some complaints of course legitimate and others not so much). I lived in apartments for eleven years without a complaint from a neighbor and without ever feeling like I needed to go on-line to complain about my neighbor situation. I was lucky. There were things that other people might have considered problems with noise and such (lived above a bar for 4 years and the loudest noise was the keg delivery on Saturday mornings -- THUMP and roll, THUMP and roll, right outside my window) and the guy downstairs from me used to yell non-stop.

But I was vaguely comforted by the city noise. It is only now, in my 12th year of apartment living (in a new apt) that now I have problems. The problems are complaints about me (detailed in other posts). It is this that I find most disturbing -- being complained about. However, if I lived below drunks who were always thumping about, I suppose I would find that even more disturbing than someone complaining that I walk too loudly.

Anyway, this is a rambling post. Mainly just to say everyone seems to have problems which is vaguely comforting, just like the keg thumping and trash trucks squealing outside my old apartment.

Well, I just wish ppl living above anyone - especially in apartments with bare floors - would just be considerate of the ppl below. Get some rugs. Walk a little quieter at night. Etc. Quite frankly, you just can't live in an upstairs apartment in the same manner as you might live in a house all to yourself, and you can't just do whatever you want at 2am - run the vacuum, dance, practice your kickboxing, etc. I stay up til the crack of dawn some nights, but I do quiet activites so the guy downstairs isn't bothered. I've got thick rugs down where the floor seems to reverberate more when you walk. Every time someone new moves in downstairs or next door, I wait a few days, then introduce myself, tell them I often stay up late, ask them if they've heard anything, and give them my telephone number to call - even very late - if there is noise bothering them. No complaints so far. To me, none of this seems exceptional, it's just a basic expectation, part of being a decent neighbour.

The other part is a bit of noise tolerance, but, when you've got a pair of 19 yr old rap stars living upstairs, thinking they're finally free from parental control and going bonkers every night to 2am, especially around welfare day, it *is* too much, and yes, I sought eviction (and got it). I don't mind the lady next door who blasts talk radio but stops at 7pm. I don't mind the guy downstairs with a three year old boy and a pair of 2 year old twin daughters, who scream and cry all night long (kids will be kids). I never minded any of the 3 previous upstairs tenants. I'm not, I don't think, hypersensitive to noise - but of course, before they were evicted, they acted innocent and tried to portray me as such. Too bad for them, they couldn't just accept some responsibility and be good neighbours. Saw one of them panhandling a couple weeks later - too bad, so sad. Especially after I offered they could do everything short of jackhammering all night long on weekends if they'd just let me watch TV on weeknights, but they decided instead to go to war.

Noise tolerance is one thing, but when someone moves in and acts as if their neighbors don't exist (which seems to be the case with many of these incidents), that's a different story.
I am starting to think our culture is experiencing a fetish about loud walking. The trend toward hardwood floors. Chunky shoes. I have no power, so I will pretend I have power by walking loud and heavy.

I agree it's mainly the builders. They don't put the extra money into making the apartment more soundproof, and the tenants are the ones who have to suffer as a consequence. Trust me, there are so many ways to soundproof things almost entirely. Read up on home theatre forums and you'll see rooms soundproofed in the same house, rooms that run high-powered theatre systems! It is not only possible, it's realistic, but it's more pricey, and that's the bottom line. If an apartment let's you hear everyone's footsteps, alarm clocks, baths, telephones, etc, then the apartment complex should be the one we complain to more than on the tenants.

That's my two cents anyway :)

"Enjoying" this thread.
Whether noises are "normal" or not is not the issue I don't think. It is RESPECT & CONSIDERATION.
The people above me make normal noises - like walking, cleaning, drawers opening & closing, fighting. The problem is that they do it at odd hours. They generally go to sleep at 2:30 - 3:00. Their bedroom is directly above mine. In that bedroom live 2 teenage boys the mother sleeps on sofa in living room). They throw their shoes on the floor. Loudly. but what I cannot understand is how there are so many shoes thrown - it sounds like 8 or 10 shoes get thrown around each evening. and not little loafers either - clearly very heavy shoes. And they don't just Open & close drawers. they SLAM them!
And they'll often bounce a basketball when they go to bed - not for long - maybe one or two bounces - just enough to jolt me aawke.
The woman there wakes up every morning at 6:30, and that is when she does her cleaning. She must be a Clean Freak, because just about every morning she is runnig a vacuum cleaner above me. But I don't know what she is vacuuming - they have NO CARPETING! She walks around the house, back & forth, beginnig at 6:30 am, in hard, high-heeled shoes. KLOMP KLOMP KLOMP. And with no carpeting, that jolts me awake.
NO CARPETING. Ahhh, there's the rub. the lease REQUIRES carpeting. the landlord will not enfore the lease. I have gone so afr as to withhold half my rent a couple of months, but not only has the LL still done nothing, but he has not even come after me for the rent, instead just adding it to the "amount due" in my next months' invoice.

When I've asked these people to have a little consideration, I am met with absolute 7 total silence. They will not even acknowledge my existence.

It gets even more fun when the Ex husband shows up. There is no talking then, only major screaming & throwing things.
Again, usually after midnight.

I live here alone. Sometimes my S.O. will stay here, and on those nights it is even worse. On those nights they stomp on the floor & yell at us.

I really like this building. the people here are terrific. The place has recently been renovated - beautiful gym, nice lobby, very convenient to transportation, shopping & roads. My particular apartment layout is terrific.
BUT THE PEOPLE UPSTAIRS!!!
I'd really love to stay, but don't know how much longer i can deal with this. I just wish thhere was something I could do. Hmmm - how do you get back at the people Upstairs, without bothering the people Downstairs (I recently told a neighbor that the people below me must be away for the wionter because it is so quiet from down there. My neighbor told me that they were here. WOW - wish I had that above me!)?????

Its a great idea for un-necessary noise like jumping, stomping, banging, dropping things over and over and these noises after a certain time like 10pm when children are sleeping.

Glad to see some posts from "apartment peoples"... Needsleep i think you have hit right on about respect and consideration.

its funny how upstairs noise is everyones problem, there is a girl who lives above us but on the other side and she wears heels and walks around all hours of the night it doesnt really bother me, but the three college kids that live below us are a different story, every single weekend you can hear them talking about going to the bar and getting ready to leave and they are all laughing and screaming "owwwwww" and loud bangs then they leave slamming their doors time goes by 2am arrives and they all come back like a heard of elephants all drunk and loud and insted of going back to their individual apartments they hang out in the hall (most of the tenants in my building go to college, didnt know they were all friends) slide down the railing you can hear them crash on the floor then they go in the apartment below us turn up the radio, and we just lay in bed eyes wide open and wait, cause ear plugs dont cut it. that is noise i cant stand id love to have just usual noise it would be a blessing!